Topic : I Want to Adopt

welcome to the meat market conveyer belt again...

 

children already freed???

 

those children are not free, not until they seek therapy and help for the traumatic seperation of mother and child ...I think its totaly sick the way you talk about kids like they are toys to be handed out .

I can not believe what I just read. Wow. Yes I'm one of those women who are unable to have children. And would Love the chance to be a mother. And yes there are some horror stories out there. That I really dont think I could handle hearing about. But there are some good things that come from adopting too. A child has a chance to have some type of normal life. I believe you can be open and explain in a way that doesnt make them feel like a cast away. A since of belonging doesnt have to have the same DNA...That comes from love and compassion, understanding. And god yes some mistakes along they way. But in the end you have raised a well rounded Adult.

 How can you be so cold hearted as to say that couples unable to have children dont deserve children. Thats just not right.  But then again you probly can have children if you dont already have them. Thank your blessings that you dont have to ever feel that emptiness that only one feels when you find out you cant have a child. You never get over it. You just live day to day. But always hope. Thats all you got.

 i dont care one bit wether you found those words hard...

 

go to http://groups.msn.com/Adoptese and educate yourself...Adoption is barbaric...

 

you say a child has a chance of having  NORMAL LIFE...how can it be normal when all around him/her isnt his or hers blood...the people around him dont look the same, act the same or have the broken heart that the adopted child carries for life...and thats normal to you...thats sick...

 

You talk again like a child is a possesion or a toy, your words, a sence ogf belonging doesnt have to have the same DNA... how Ignorant can you be here, Didnt you read my post, it states in quite plain lingo an adopted childs life is manifested and a lie, the child NEVER  realy feels he belongs to you, you may shower  that child in gifts but thats buying there love , you say you can love that child but what about the REAL MOTHER doesnt she deserve the chance to LOVE HER OWN CHILD...But instead people like you STEAL that chance because of you own insecuritys because you cant have your own child, instead you want to STEAL  a child away from its NATURAL  mother,

 

You ask, how can i be so cold hearted to say that infertility is no excuse to adopted, then i ask you back, where in the bible does it say, or where is it written that you can STEAL,TAKE OR BUY another persons child and DISCARD the feelings of there rightful MOTHER...

 

Its not exactly rocket science is it...

 

yes i have kids and im dissabled as well and ill tell you straight, if anyone came to me before my wife gave birth and said "we are taking your child for a better life" or if any prospective adoptive parent approached me for my children, trust me, i would blow there damn heads off, there my kids and not a possession that can be past from pillar to post just so you get some kind of happiness at being a parent, yoyr happiness cost thousands of unhappy children...

 

Yes im cold hearted but thats what adoption does, it screws your mind, life and well being and i guess youll answe will be  im angry and bitter, TO EFFIN RIGHT IM ANGRY...and like you i have every right to be angry and voice my very real opinion on adoption...after all you try being seperated from your blood for 45 years and then tell me how it feels...You adoptive parents just dont have a clue...

 

go to www.bastardnation.com

 www.originsusa.org

www.originscanada.org

www.adoptionhealing.com

www.adoptioninsights.com

 

Educate yourself, read the truth and then comment because non of you hear understand the truth... 

 

 

2. You and Jesus really don't have all that much in common.

Have you been told that you were at the center of some God initiated conspiracy to be placed with your adoptive parents? That maybe your a-folks couldn't have children of their own for a reason? That another woman found herself in a difficult situation just so you could be adopted? That folks at social services or an agency fulfilled the role of angels his scenario? You are not alone, this is a common piece of adoption mythology. It also makes about as much sense as them telling you they found you under a cabbage leaf.

There were real and distinctly ungodly forces working in order to get you adopted. These included agencies, advertising, and the state court system. None of these are directly overseen by any supreme being.

Your parents may have prayed for a child, but only if you subscribe to the adage that God helps those that help themselves, can you even begin to connect the adoption process with anything like the divine. There is some precedent in Christian tradition for children being granted for reasons of God's choosing, but these almost always involve incest, immaculate conception, or old ladies producing children to be savior's playmates. So unless you, or your bestest buddy, are doing the twist on the surface of the swimming pool, I think we can count that out.

Even if the agency involved with your adoption was connected with a church, it was by no means a case of the hand of God working to bring you to your destination. It's just too problematic to work out which God inspired agency had the right bead on God's true work. The big two in adoption, the Catholics and the Later Day Saints, can't even agree on what their main man Jesus was up to for several years, I doubt they would agree that any child that would come into the other's possession had much potential for eternal blessing.

The very thought that God would go to such round about means as adoption requires to bring your parents a child is just silly. Think about it, as nice people as your a-parents might be, what have they done to justify these lengths? Just wanting a child really doesn't fly with God. Those on record that have been divinely granted children have gone through a whole hell of a lot either previous to receiving their miracles, or very soon thereafter. Driving you to soccer practice, allowing you to take up the trombone in the fifth grade, or even surviving your teenage rebellion, just doesn't rate.

On the same note what about you? If you are truly a gift from God, what have you done? Divine status has it's responsibilities and expectations. Unless you are the new Messiah or part of his crew, that pretty much leaves you out. If you think you might be the new Messiah, at this point I should probably suggest you do a bit more serious reading than this, on psychological issues. If you do not at this point have any ascribed miracles, bilocations, or feel the need to lead a political and social movement redefining an established religion, I feel that we can move on.

 

I am not the happy and grateful adoptee that you want me to be. Don't get me wrong. I was happy and grateful for almost 45 years – or so I believed. Had you asked me then how I felt about being adopted, you might have heard something like, "Great! I am so grateful to my (adoptive) parents for all they did and, no, I am not interested in finding my 'real' family. My adoptive family is my 'real' family, thankyouverymuch, and they are a wonderful family. I've had a wonderful life. Of course, I am grateful to my natural mother for giving me life. Oh, you're adopting? How wonderful!"

I enthusiastically expressed that view all those years because I needed to convince myself that my life was normal and right and that I was okay. I did it because everyone else wanted me to feel that way, too. And I thought I would die if I ever looked deeper.

Happy children

You've seen adopted children who seem to be perfectly happy, too. They smile and have fun just like those whose families are intact. They act happy and, occasionally, they are.

Yes, adopted children smile and laugh. Did you stop smiling after you lost a loved one? Didn't you still laugh when someone said something funny? Weren't you still capable of having some fun?

Did you ever smile and act happy to hide your grief?

Of course you did. But even when you smiled, those close to you knew it didn't mean you were happy. Those close to you accepted and expected your pain and sadness. They did not expect you to be happy about your loss. They gave you something most adoptees do not get: acknowledgement of, empathy for, and permission to express your grief.

What grief?

In the early '50s when I was adopted, little was known about the power of the bond between mother and child. Society still accepted Locke's theory of tabula rasa – that we are born as blank slates. John Locke died in 1704, yet his theory survived until the mid- 50s. Now, however, we know that even before birth babies are intelligent, remembering and aware beings with their own personalities.

We know that much of who we are today was created in the womb. We know that mother and child are a single entity, profoundly connected physiologically, emotionally and spiritually – even through early infancy. A baby does not understand that he or she is an individual until at least 9 months after birth.

Through their research, authorities have determined that, when the mother/child entity is split, it causes an acute and lasting trauma in both mother and child. The repercussions are ominous and tenacious. Though they become buried deep inside, the repercussions follow both mother and child throughout the remainder of their lives.

It is difficult, emotionally, to imagine a tiny baby's very real feelings about the loss of his or her mother -- the terror of losing all that is familiar, all that is comfort – the unique heartbeat, scent, taste, voice, rhythms and vibrations. Babies are born needing and expecting these familiar things which only their natural mothers can provide.

Even with this knowledge which has accumulated over the past 20 years, there remain those in our society who sever the mother/child entity as casually as they would cut a common earthworm in two.

Ignored trauma is another trauma

A child's first experience in the adoptive family is usually joining in everyone else's happiness over his or her tragedy. The child's first trauma is ignored or dismissed, perhaps in the belief that enough love will make it disappear. It will not. In essence, the adoptee is expected to dance along with everyone else on his or her own mother's virtual grave. Most experts in the fields of adoption psychology and trauma consider this dismissal to be the adoptee's second trauma.

The first and second traumas are the root causes for a number of issues and for additional traumas, which accumulate one upon another (what Betty Jean Lifton calls "Cumulative Trauma").

We may not want to imagine these things because it is uncomfortable to do so but, to act in a child's best interest including protecting his or her emotional health, we need to suffer through such discomfort.

Denial

Over 14 years ago, I began 9 years in therapy, struggling with a boatload of issues that are utterly classic in adoptees. I didn't accomplish much. The problem was that I did not connect them with my adoption experience. In all fairness, my therapist encouraged me to recognize the connection, but I was so deep in "De Nile" that I could not see it – indeed would not see it. I needed too desperately (like most of society) to believe that my adoption experience was the positive part of my life – not the source of my problems.

Denial is powerful and, in many ways, a gift. It is a state we create in order to avoid feeling the pain of seeing the truth. When a baby's world is gone, he or she does whatever it takes to survive. If the child does not get empathy and permission to grieve, he or she has no choice but to psychologically deny the trauma. And that includes smiling to hide the grief. The child begins to believe that his or her feelings are unimportant – even wrong. The child learns how not to feel.

I do not use the word "denial" in a damning or judgmental way. It is a normal and natural human survival tool. I not only acknowledge it but, knowing intimately the pain that comes with shedding that denial, I am reticent to nudge others out of it. Denial can be a trauma victim's most effective tool for survival, because revisiting the event that caused the trauma can feel literally life threatening.

The downside of denial unfortunately outweighs the upside. Denial prevents us from understanding and effectively managing all the issues that stem from the disintegration of the mother/child entity. What are the most common issues?

Identity

Issues of the adoptee are barely acknowledged by society and then only in those who are of a different race than the adoptive family – as if physical differences are the only ones that matter. But there are reasons why we see repetitive generations of lawyers, healers, scholars, actors, artists, etc. in natural families. It is not just a matter of continuing a family business or tribal tradition. It is a matter of like characteristics being perpetuated, generation after generation, being nurtured by genetic mirroring.

Even if we are not transracial or biracial adoptees, we still do not get the genetic mirroring that we so desperately need. We don't know how tall we'll get, or whether our hair will get darker or lighter, our skin clearer, our bodies thinner or thicker. We don't know who we'll look like when we're older. Our own natural characteristics are unfamiliar, so we don't know what we should or should not choose to develop.

Although such things may seem inconsequential to those around us, they are monumental to us, and serve to make us feel even more alienated, more lost.

When an adoptee's characteristics do not fit those of the adoptive family (or the extended adoptive family), there can be trouble. In my case art, writing and psychology were all frowned upon by my adoptive family. Yet those characteristics run happily in my natural family. Though my adoptive parents meant well, I grew up feeling like a bad seed. Out of desperation for approval, I pursued career paths that I thought would please them but even those successes were never enough to overcome their disappointment.

Carrying the surname of someone else's family also contributes to identity problems. The child is expected to embrace the adoptive family's ancestry, as if his or her own is immaterial -- as if living in the dark is no big deal.

Low self-esteem

Identity issues can explain some low self-esteem, a classic adoptee problem. Another cause is some adoptive parents' – and society's – (unmistakable yet unspoken) low opinion of the stereotypical "birthmother." Not only is this an unfair and incorrect judgment about our mothers, but adopted children incorporate these attitudes into their own self-image.

Along with this message, adopted children are often told that, essentially, their mothers loved them so much that they gave them away. This makes no sense. If my mother really loved me that much, she would have kept me -- therefore there must be something wrong with me. This creates low self-esteem.

Low self-esteem leads to people-pleasing. Adoptees are exemplary people-pleasers. That is why we so often appear to be happy and are pleasant to be around. Lots of smiling! Our original purpose as adoptees was to fulfill the desires of others, to make them happy. Early on, our authentic selves are sacrificed to fill those needs.

Powerlessness and control

For many adoptees, it is easy to fall into despair and feel powerless over circumstances that emotionally healthy people can overcome with relative ease. This is rooted in our separation experience, when we felt powerless, helpless and hopeless. Paradoxically, we can become obsessed with controlling other parts of our lives, those things and events that we can control. This is conflict waiting to happen.

Depression

Often, depression can come from the sheer exhaustion of maintaining pretense (being in denial). No matter how much love and care we are given, the truth is that we are (and will always be) someone else's children. Yet we exhaust ourselves emotionally, pretending otherwise because we believe it will ensure our survival and prevent another abandonment.

We also expend a lot of energy fantasizing about our natural mothers, and a lot of energy burying our authentic selves in favor of people-pleasing. All these things take a great deal of energy yet offer little reward -- fertile ground for depression.

Trust

One of our most common problems is that of trust. The original disintegration of the mother/child entity can literally destroy a baby's nascent sense of trust. Once lost, it can never be recovered. Only a tentative sense of trust can be painstakingly built by the adoptive family, yet it will always be difficult and sometimes impossible. Again paradoxically, we tend to casually trust anyone and everyone. It is when deep trust is required, as in intimacy, we tend to fall short.

Abandonment

Abandonment is the most common issue of the adoptee. Despite the true circumstances of the separation from our natural mothers, we experienced this emotionally as abandonment. Even with later knowledge of those circumstances, the early emotional experience of abandonment never leaves us. Relationship troubles abound. Other issues such as trust, identity, low self-esteem and control compound these troubles.

Many people have abandonment issues. For adoptees, however, abandonment is not just painful. It can feel like annihilation.

"Only eyes washed by tears can see clearly." – Louis Mann

Staying in denial, while it may be a refuge, hurts everyone involved. Although seeing the truth also hurts, don't parentless children deserve what they truly need? How can society continue pretending that the smiles are genuine simply because it is easier than acknowledging the underlying problems?

For those who genuinely care about these children and want to take that first step toward seeing clearly, start with one of Betty Jean Lifton's books, such as Journey of the Adopted Self or Nancy Verrier's The Primal Wound. They offer insight into the issues of adoptees, adoptive parents, and of mothers who have lost children to adoption. Such knowledge and understanding can open our minds and hearts to alternatives that are even better than adoption.

Smiles as masks

Despite all these traumas and issues, adoptees smile. We smile to hide a world of hurt that neither we nor the rest of the world want to face. We smile because the world needs us to smile. They need to believe they are doing the right thing for us, to forget those silly "issues," and call us "happy." By smiling, we help them do that.

Next time you encounter a "happy" and "grateful" adoptee who had "wonderful" adoptive parents and a "wonderful" life, look a little closer

I have educated myself.  My "Father" (sperm donar) signed his rights way when I was only 3 yrs old. I had to grow up knowing that info. Try being a girl turning 13 and you know that out there some where is a man who didnt give a rats *** about that big day. Or how about 16. Where was the card. !8 graduated high school and oh yea, he wasnt there. Oh and the big one. Getting married. All girls want their father to walk them down. But  I forgot to tell you. I did have a father to do all this with. My adoptive father. Great man couldnt have ask for any better.  And where is "Real father" now. Oh I had to find him...BIG MISTAKE......How about he had a whole new family  2 girls. My sisters. That was 20 yrs ago I found him. Whens the last time I spoke with him . Oh how about 2 yrs ago.

 So how about that as education

 

couldnt care less about any of yours situation, my concerne is towards the REAL mothers who gave birth to us and the adopted people who have been stolen by you selfish, greedy self centred so called christian do gooders who dont care about anyone but themselfs and how they will look in society with there STOLEN  children.

 

INFERTILITY IS NOT AN EXCUSE TO STEAL ANOTHER WOMANS CHILD , IF YOU CANT HAVE KIDS, GET OVER IT AND LEAVE OTHER PEOPLES CHILDREN ALONE......

I feel for those who must be sad and  lonely . Your views are valid. But so are mine. I dont want to "steal" a mothers child. But for those who drop off their children and turn away and never look back. Those children need a home with people who love them. End of discussion. If you think different then shame on you.

Hello Dr. Phil!
My husband and I have been blessed with 3 beautiful children and we want to share our love with more children.  Over the past year we have tried to adopt through the State agencies.  Because of our location in Alaska, we have been unable to welcome a child into our home.  We have experienced the baby stage and would like to adopt older children (4-10), so that people who haven't experienced a newborn could have that opportunity.  We understand there are people who have no children and we can only imagine what agony they must go through.  We have also looked into the private adoption, but who can afford that?  It outrages me that kids are being "sold" for $30,000 or more.  This financial strain would not benefit the family or the child.  Only rich people can adopt, I feel that is unfair and a disservice to our children.  I have talked in lenght to my husband and we are trying to come up with a way to help people adopt.  Some how we want to start a program that helps couple with the cost of adoption if they make under a certain amount.  I am not sure how I am going to fund this initially seeing as I am a stay at home mom and we are bearly scraping buy as it is.  I am hoping and praying God is going to help me see my dream come true at some point in my life.  I know there are so many families out there yearning for a child and I hope one day to help them.  I have been blessed and would like to see that kindness from Jesus flow down.  Adoption is an expensive and frustrating event and people need help.  Cost of living is raising rapidly and incomes are not.  I would give up my dream of adopting if I could help even one person without children be able to become mommy and daddy.  There is truly NOTHING more rewarding in life.

heres a bit more proof adoptive parents dont have a clue and there ideas are just sick....

 

 

last Monday's Independent

  Would you call your own child bad...would you say your own  child deserves to be spoken to like this...it makes me puke ..it realy realy gets me down to see these reports ...if a kid is playing up like this we all know the reason why...hes hurting, lost and alone and around morons who cant look after another MOTHERS CHILD...   as for this person here who already has kids and wants to adopt...sheer greed and sheer lunicy...im appauled this hero doctor phil can actualy let these convos carry on...its just sheer mentality...