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Topic : 07/10 Biggest Brats

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Created on : Thursday, July 06, 2006, 07:03:12 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
They're rowdy, wild and uncontrollable. They have no respect for authority, demand what they want when they want it, and there's hell to pay when they don't get it. If bratty kids are ruining your world, Dr. Phil has advice on taking back parental control. His first guest, Tabitha, feels like she's living with an abusive man, but it's not her husband; it's her 6-year-old son, Justin. He says, 'I hate you' at least 40 times a day and threatens her with knives and lighters. Is Tabitha contributing to the chaos? Then, Shelley says that her defiant 18-year-old daughter, Mackenzie, is worse than a brat. She's a high school senior who stays out until 5:00 a.m., then cusses at her mom for waking her up to go to school. Is it too late for Mackenzie to change her ways? Share your thoughts, join the discussion.

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July 9, 2006, 4:38 pm PDT

Shelly's Daughter

I think that this problem has probably been brewing for many years.  If you let a child get away with something in the very beginning then they will learn to manipulate even further througout their life.  She probably acted out very young with small things, such as a temper tantrum when she did not get her favorite toy in the store or when mom sent her to her room she threw a fit and called her mean. If mom let her get away with this and did not punish her or try to talk with her and understand her anger then she just learned that it was okay to act this way.  If she's 18 years old and she wants to do whatever she wants then she needs to be taught the repricussions from this.  Respect and maturity are things she is not going to learn if  mom keeps taking it as it is being dished.  Shelly needs to tell her daughter that she means business and demand respect from her. Or just try sitting her down and talking about things with her.  Try finding out why she is soo angry and what is fueling it.  She may not come right out and say why but there is a reason deep down and it's mom's job to find out what and try to fix it.  And if she can't by herself then seek some outside help.  

 
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July 9, 2006, 4:48 pm PDT

Not all "brats" can help it

Our son was considered to be a bully and a brat during his early elementary school years but I knew there was something else there.  He was diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome but it took several years more for school officials and relatives to accept this even after being diagnosed at three totally different clinics.  School peers and their parents still think of him that way but it gets tiresome to try to explain his situation to everyone he comes into contact with.  Counseling, knowledge, and medication has proven extremely valuable. 
     My point is to please not judge kids so harshly and quickly because there may be underlying causes.  If this child's parents even have a bit of a gut feeling that it may be something more than him being a brat to please seek medical advise.
 
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July 9, 2006, 6:17 pm PDT

Thank you

Quote From: de72058

A very similar situation occured when my now 20-year-old son was your child's age.  

  

I was so confused as to what was going on, and in the dark. 

  

I finally found out...my son had gotten involved with drugs and alcohol at 16 and was abusing them by the time I noticed his behavior changes.  He was the LAST person I would have expected that from. 

  

Since you mentioned the grades, a change in attitude, dropping activities that once gave him joy (dance and acting), a change in a few friends, etc...I suggest the following: take your son to the doctor (you can tell him why OR you can tell him it's time for his annual checkup - that's up to you) and ask the doctor to perform a drug test (drug profile that's performed from urine collected from your son at that visit).  A Monday would be a good appointment time since he may still have substances in his urine (like alcohol).   

  

My son denied any substance use.  I bought a home breathilizer...but it never showed any alcohol usage when I tested him.  That just led to him screaming that I didn't trust him and he couldn't live with me if I wasn't going to trust him - which made me feel horrible...but he just kept behaving more and more like someone I didn't know and he seemed to be getting more and more out of control. 

  

I told my son we were going for a drug test and he blew up.  He raged.  He pulled the trust card again.  BUT I held my ground and we went.  A day later I was called with the results.  He had SEVERAL drugs in his body, prescription and illegal.  No alcohol at that time. 

  

I immediately entered him in an outpatient adolescent drug treatment center in town - and took him (kicking and screaming).   This facility had mandatory family counseling (with the child present and without the child present), and in the counseling  without the child present I learned how to spot, handle, and deal with a child who is using drugs...some things I learned I hadn't had to deal with...but as predicted, those situations surfaced later and I knew how to defuse it because I had been educated to the possibility.  And we learned that these drugs have changed our child's brain...we aren't dealing with the same person...we are dealing with the drugs...we aren't talking to the same person...we are talking to the drugs...and even if the child concurs the addiction, there may not be a complete "return" of the former child because of the permanent effect of the substances on the brain. 

  

My son straightened out and his grades improved and he made great progress...he was back on the honor roll in his senior year...paired back up with former friends...smiled and actually seemed to feel joy again. 

  

I wish I could say he is over the hump...he's in college...but he has periods of regression - where he turns to drugs again...and those situations break my heart and my spirit - but, it's not an easy road for the family to walk.  And now that he's of legal age, there are limitations to how I can "step in" when he regresses...so take positive action while you still have legal control over your son's affairs. 

  

The gutter-talk language is a whole other matter...but do not permit him to be disrespectful...deal with that immediately and swiftly. 

  

One action the counselors recommended was to clear their room of everything but a bed (I've heard Dr. Phil recommened this as well).  No electronics.  No phone.  Nothing.  PLUS (and I haven't heard Dr. Phil recommed this but it's effective) remove their bedroom door (put it in an attic or garage or basement, preferably where they cannot find it).  Removing the door rids them of privacy - which teens cherish.  They can dress and undress in a bathroom, so they don't need a door on their bedroom.   

  

Of course, no negotiating on getting the stuff back for the first month, but later it can all be negotiated and earned back - the door being the very last thing to return.  Since my child (and the teens of those at the treatment center) used drugs, earning stuff back was also conditional on urine tests.  And even after they were released, parents were told to continue urine tests (and being unpredictable on WHEN the kids were going to be tested - kids clue into patterns and might not use drugs if they expect to be tested...and most kids use drugs heavily right after urine testing). 

  

My son complained about losing stuff - but when the door disappeared he was LIVID.  Then he RAGED.  Then he BEGGED and cried to get the door back. 

  

You have to stand strong.  You have to be firm.   It's extremely exhausting and sad and you wonder why, but there's never concrete answer to that. 

  

As much as you want to trust that this is temporary, it probably isn't. 

  

As much as you want this to go away on it's own, it probably won't. 

  

As much as you hate to take action, you have to.  That's why I suggested a urine test.  Line it up before you speak to your child and do not let him talk you out of it.  If it comes back "clean", great - you know what you're NOT dealing with...but if it doesn't, you have a starting point for corrective action. 

  

  

Thank you very much for responding to my letter.  I know in my mind, all that you said is so true, the hard part is accepting it in your own child.  I have made an appointment with a counselor, which he is NOT pleased about.    

  

Again, thank you  

  

 
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July 9, 2006, 6:48 pm PDT

THANK YOU!

Quote From: teach80

I think you need to check with your child's school and their Child Study Team and request a meeting. Your son might no longer be SLI and may have a different disability classification. If so, the experts at the school level should be able to assist in managing his behavior with an IEP. Call your school today and ask for a Child Study Team meeting and demand testing. It is worth looking into and costs you nothing. At the same time they maybe able to suggest outside counseling for your son. I am assuming you have insurance b/c of the needed meds he currently takes. GOOD LUCK!

Yes - My son has had an IEP since Kindergarten.  It is reviewed every 3 months.  As far as I know the school is doing everything they can to "teach him" which is their job.  The discipline and behavior is up to me and insurance covers only a certain amount of visits but the copay is $30 each visit!  I am on government assistance and barely get enough food stamps to live on.  All my money goes for "things that are needed at that moment in time." 

  

I do not want anyone to think that I am putting money before my child.  I want answers to why he does these things at school or away from me but not at home.  He knows the consequences at home ... and he obviously knows the consequences at school.  He was suspended TWICE in 1st grade ... after that is when I really started standing up to the school that there is something else going on here and if you can't control my child while he is with you ... I don't know what to tell you but don't send him home to play!" 

 
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July 9, 2006, 7:35 pm PDT

babies and disapline

My Grand daughter is 22 monthes she is in my care and has been since 5 months old. My daughter has a 5 month old little boy now and she can't control her anger at all. With little girl I did what The Nanny sugested I would warn her then put her in her cot for very short time. It take time and persistance and a lot of love , my dishes get left at times as she is important. I have had to train pups to do stuff and they respond to love as babies and the babies are so more important!  In Australia they give Grand parents free time for the kids to go to child care , this helps as they suport teaching her to tea diffent foods and as it is only her and I at home it helps her to play with children her age . We have her brother over 1 night a week , the first time he thought a tantrum buy crying and holding his breath I was beside my self . His mum said they always argue yep 5 months old . There are still times when my grand daughter want take no for an answer I'm trying to tell her that danger igoes with some no's. I beleave that school education on anger managment as well as communicating with poeple should pay an important part of teaching in stead of the teacher being anexample of a power play!!
 
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July 9, 2006, 8:30 pm PDT

biggest brats

I really don't blame the child, It's mom and dad. A child only will do only with the parents allows them to do. It is not rocket science. I think that is whats wrong with kids today that is in trouble. Lack of discipline.We need to step up to the plate and not let our children run our household and take charge
 
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July 9, 2006, 10:03 pm PDT

Be careful giving advice!

Quote From: mkonu1

  I firmly believe that allowing a child to think that he can disrespect his parents and others is a form of  child abuse.     

   

  It is more abusive than the spankings that are not in fashion at this time. He will go on through life wondering why he is not liked, invited, married, hired and otherwise welcomed into society.  Being permissive is not kind to a child at all.  You have to teach a child to be respectful from the beginning;  in the crib. The first lesson is sleeping through the night.  That is teaching basic respect for parents.  I'm sure you have never heard it referred to in that manner. You cannot wait until some magic age - 3? 4? 6? to begin socializing a child. You would train a dog better than that.    

  We owe children respect, too.  I definitely do not mean giving them everything 'I didn't have' and allowing them to dictate when, where, what and how life goes on around him.  We owe them the social skills to develop into useful, happy people.  'Tough love'  needs to happen from the start.  It's very hard when a 6 year old is laying in the floor at the grocery store kicking and screaming  or a teenager who's unsocialized behavior has landed him in jail or worse.     

   

  And, Dr. Phil, a spanking never hurts unless it is never given.  I spanked each of my very active sons very seldom and all they needed for the most part  was a firm reminder and/or time out. They never said, 'I hate you'  or thru  tantrums after they passed the terrible 2's.  Bottom line they have to know that you mean what you say the first time you say it.   My boys are grown now and I have asked each one if there is something that happened in the past that we need to talk about and maybe I need to apologize for. (Did I get that from your show or Oprah?  :) )  They never mentioned spanking only curfews and onions in my cooking.  They are good men of whom I am very proud..   

First of all many parents spank when they're angry and this is the WORST time because it can be difficult to control how hard you spank and easy for some parents to cross the line to abuse. 

  

Second, I'm wondering if you're married.  Assuming you did something your husband didn't like, would it be okay for him to hurt you just to "show you he's serious"?  I'm guessing your reply might sound something like, "My husband is my equal and my child is my subordinate".  If so I'd remind you that your child is both your equal and your subordinate.  Respect is taught by example and the only time you should lay a hand on a child is to show them love.   The healthiest kids obey out of love, respect, and a firm example to follow, NOT OUT OF FEAR. 

 
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July 9, 2006, 10:10 pm PDT

Don't give up...

Quote From: cyndi5

I have a nine year old son who is what some call a BRAT, When he is told no about anything he goes into a rage. When I say rage I mean he flips tables chairs,anything that will turn over.At four he was put in a time out for punching his sister in the stomach.He kicked out his window with his bare feet. So I know how this woman fells about her 6 year old .I lock my self in rooms to keep me safe.My son tells me he hates me he is going to kill me or anyone he is mad at. I have taken him to Doctors they say ADHD,Bipolar and quite a few other things. He is nine now and on 5 different kinds of meds. They helped but he still gets out of control.My husband and I enforce all discipline that does no good at all.I am so worried that one day he will hurt me or someone. I am scared that one day I will be visiting him in jail or worse that I will be putting flowers on his grave.
It does sound a lot like Bipolar and certain drugs can permanently affect the severity of the illness.  Make sure the doctor treating him really knows his stuff in the medication department and never accept medication as the sole treatment.  It takes dietary and schedule changes and a lot of talking with him about what he feels is going on.  Brain scans, also called SPECT scans, while controversial in their effectiveness, can really help in a diagnosis because you can SEE what's going on inside instead of just guessing by what you're seeing on the outside.  I really believe God sends every child to this earth as they are supposed to be for a specific purpose.  It's our job to try to figure out what that purpose is and how to help them achieve it, including overcoming the obstacles.  Just a guess, but I bet he's also brilliant.  There IS actually an upside to these disorders!
 
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July 9, 2006, 11:09 pm PDT

KEEP TRYING YOU'LL MAKE IT!

Quote From: one4u2rem

Yes - My son has had an IEP since Kindergarten.  It is reviewed every 3 months.  As far as I know the school is doing everything they can to "teach him" which is their job.  The discipline and behavior is up to me and insurance covers only a certain amount of visits but the copay is $30 each visit!  I am on government assistance and barely get enough food stamps to live on.  All my money goes for "things that are needed at that moment in time." 

  

I do not want anyone to think that I am putting money before my child.  I want answers to why he does these things at school or away from me but not at home.  He knows the consequences at home ... and he obviously knows the consequences at school.  He was suspended TWICE in 1st grade ... after that is when I really started standing up to the school that there is something else going on here and if you can't control my child while he is with you ... I don't know what to tell you but don't send him home to play!" 

I commend you for trying to do what you can in this situation. It's hard.  

  

I work with children who have disabilities, Autism, or who are emotionally disturbed. You say the behavior and discipline are up to you... What part does the school play in these two things at school? I'm not sure- legally -if he has a disability that they can suspend him either. (Find your parental rights booklet they gave you at the IEP and if they didn't give you one-they aren't in compliance, and get one.) If they are sending him home due to not being able to handle him then maybe he is actually in the wrong facility with the wrong teachers and program for him. Teachers can only do so much, and if they really are not qualified  or know what type of behavior plan to make for your son they aren't doing him any favors. Along with the IEP should be a behavior plan that you agree too. This should always be in place until the behavior plan goals are met. Check it every time you have an IEP you wouldn't believe how many times these get put aside, then by the time the child gets a couple grades older or a new teacher the whole behavior plan is gone. Some cases the child doesn't need it, but most often they continue those plans so they keep learning right from wrong as they grow older. 

  

If the staff at the school is not being consistent about what they want and expect him to do he will act out, it's a given. They have to make a plan of what exactly they want from him each day  

(every day should be somewhat predictable- similar schedule- warnings before your going to change to do some thing new. IE: "In two minutes we are going to do this"- this will help him to know what's expected and when) and then they have to be consistent in implementing it. It's easier on them to send him home than to deal with his behavior. They still get paid the same but he loses the chance to learn how to behave in a setting away from home away from you. It doesn't make it easier for you  either, because  what ever he did to get sent home  will become much bigger the next time around. Sounds like you know that.  

  

I know it's not always fun being the one who makes him have to follow the rules. The school should be helping you and being consistent.  Maybe there is another underlying reason he is acting out, does he want to be there? What actually goes on during his day? If the people have a negative attitude towards him he may sense it and not be trusting so therefore setting his day into a bad motion. Just a thought. 

  

See if your district has a specialist on board that can help these teachers make a behavior plan for him. Possibly your son may need social stories too so he can understand what is right and wrong. They really help a lot of kids.  

  

About the $. If you are already on some assistance and or free and reduced lunch program contact your school nurse and see what other things are available to your son regarding counseling. They may know of different people who can meet your needs or some way you can get a type of grant. I have seen it done. If your willing to keep asking the questions and demanding the district give your child a free and appropriate education he will be the winner. 

Keep trying you'll make it and so will he. Good luck.:) 

 
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July 9, 2006, 11:15 pm PDT

07/10 Biggest Brats

Bratty KID, ( Excuse my laungage ) my ass.
What happen to beinging the adult.to beinging the parent?
Grand kid or no grand kid , show me respect and you get respect, kid or adult.
Did you raise your children to be a brat? If not don't let it happen when you are around.
If Mom and Dad don't want well behave kids keep them home
There is a saying blood is blood, but that don't mean you as a grand parents have to put up with
any kind of mess, because your grandchild don't have any manners.
So grand mother get a back bone, either do something or let the little MONSTER, run your life.
Oh, yes I have grand children.
 
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