Topic : 07/11 Domestic Dollar Disputes

Hi girls -  

my husband is a tax accountant - he also "tries" to do the things described in your letters here - asking me for receipts and so forth, wanting to know why I spent money on things on the receipts that are not necessary and etc.  I happened to grow up in a nice home where my parents always had money for me to spend, so this twist on money was new to me 25 years ago.  Realistically, he was right 25 years ago - we were 18 years old when we got married, he worked in a restaurant, we were college students, and we really did not have any extra money to spend.  But now, we live in a gorgeous home, and he makes fine money, yet he reads books like "The Millionair Next Door", and all sorts of other Christian and secular books on money management - they are his favorite "reads".  He follows the "rules" set forth in these books out of plain old FEAR, I believe, because he thinks that if we fail financially no one will help us, not even churches in our area who screen you severely, and run out of money before their benevelence budget is supposed to be used up (God forbid they borrow money from the building fund to help someone in need out! - I asked about this once for a friend and the church would not budge).  

I look at this problem from all angles, and have a great deal of self esteem about things.  First I read all the books my husband has read and these books make financial life and financial future seem bleak and very frightening.  Apparently once you retire, and the money stops rolling in, you really could be in alot of trouble financially.  I really don't want to take a job at McDonalds, KMart or Walmart when I turn 65, to put food on the table.  I'd rather be stingy now.  My husband tells me that Soc. Security money may eventually not be available for any of us based on how the government is running the show today - that's a budget I don't want to have to depend on.  While I was a kid getting money to spend, my husband's parents told him, "son, go get that paper route, or you can't have _____(fill in the blank).  He learned the value of money from age 10, because for him work and money are synonymous.    

The first thing I try to do is appreciate things that he has done to set up my life so that when he is gone and dead, I'll be comfortable and not have to work, or try to re-marry just to eat.  The second thing I try to do is be reasonable - do I really need that?  As my husband has pointed out to me that I don't need "that", I have began to ask myself, when in stores wishing for "that", what will happen to that object I intend to buy in  2 weeks, 3 months, 1 year?  Usually, the fate of whatever I want to buy will end up in the goodwill pile anyway, because in our exclusive neighborhood, we can not even have a garage sale, it is against deed restrictions.  I have somewhat began to convert to "tightwad-ery" beacause, in truth, you really do not need that junk, that outing, and etc.    

On the other hand, my husband does also want me to account for things, and I suppose if he could get me to do it, I would have to account for each penny.  My genuine excuse is that I probibally have ADHD - I genuinely loose receipts, and can not for my life keep track of stuff.  He wants to know where the receipt is, and I have genuinely lost it between the store and the house, and that is no lie.  We have had fights about my 'problem' losing things, but I can't help it - I'm just a messy birdbrain who can't keep her head on straight.  He has had to accept me for my handicap, which I am not making up or doing deliberately.  I can't remember numbers either - he will ask - "how much was that check for???"  I have no Idea, it was prob. around 56.68, or maybe it was 85.63, I can't really remember as I lost the paper it was written down on, and I get 3's and 8's mixed up as they look similar and also 6's and 9's...(and that is also a genuine problem, I'm just not a numbers person).    

We have had our fights, and I have overspent on a couple of occasions, because I'm not a tightwad at heart.  My husband has even "grounded" me from the credit cards one or twice.  That's fine by me, as I have to e-mail him the grocery list, and he has to grocey shop which is a drudge anyway, and in the Houston Climate, I sweat and my make-up comes off...he usually purchases better, higher quality things than I would anyway.  I tell him, "honey, you have become the 'grocery boy'!"  Then I treat him like an errand boy, and he has to bring me my needs.  He does, as well as the kids stuff.  He's a good guy - he can't help being a tightwad - but he sincerely wants me and the kids to have a good life - he is just terrified he won't be able to make ends meet, so instead of working against him I allow him to live inside his fears and he soon recognizes that his lifestyle is indeed difficult.  

I never ask him if I can take the kids to the doctor - they just go.  I tell him after the fact - "hey we went to the doctor today...."  That is my personal rule - there should be no question that doctoring is permitted, so I don't ask.  I also make it a policy inside myself not to just go to the doctor for the "fun" of it" - can this illness be cured up at home?  no need to waste money. That's for sure.  

The money battle is not really about money, it is about CONTROLL.  If it was not money, it would be something else, housekeeping, how you dress, if you do or do not go to work, whether or not he can have an affair...all the shows Dr. Phil does may boil down to CONTROLL - WHO CONTROLLS WHOM.  So I let my husband "win" - he gets to controll, and I do what I need to do.  He thinks he controlls, and when he is in the right, I go along with him.  When it is small, I don't argue with him.  I realize that inside his head he has a huge psychological fear of not being able to make ends meet - and has had this since childhood.  I think it is unkind of me to prompt him to fear when I am not a psychologist, and can't cure his inner fears.  He provides me and my kids with a good life, and has tried hard to help us all learn to "tightwad".  We are good at trying to learn this difficult skill.  We do not always succeed, nor are we always in the mood for it, but in exchange for trying so hard, he has been able to provide me with a very wonderful life and I am very happy with my life:  

*I do not work outside the home *I live in an exclusive neighborhood with lovely community swimming pools, tennis courts, paddle boats, etc* I drive a beautiful $40K car that he paid off in cash the first day he purchased it * we have plenty of food on the table (I actually have a weight problem because he provides so well) * I have plenty of clothing, make-up, jewelry) * I have nice furniture, some gotten from parents, as the tightwad book instructed, which is fine with me)* I get vacations, because based on his frequent flier miles, we have alot of points to use up  

I used to ask myself when we were building our life, "why can't i buy my kids that grocery store stuff (the hair bows, the expensive kiddy shampoo, the little toys, that extra cute dress for the baby)", when I would see my friends do so....I USED to feel jealous that my girl friends had the POWER over their husbands to spend and spend and I had to account for things to my husband...but now I do not feel badly, because those friends are still in starter homes, and I live like a princess - I actually do not need anything, even if i did have a million dollars to spend on junk and goofing off.  

So what do I tell my friends?  I don't blame tightwadding on good old hubby any more, I tell them "Lunching is off, I have a weight problem (which is absolutely true) - I will be happy to accompany you to a restaurant, but I won't order....don't impair my weight problem please!"  I have actually done this to a couple of friends, and they are in disbelieve that someone would walk into a restaurant and not order, but truthfully, If I had $50 bucks to spend on lunch, my weight would not allow it anyway and Dr. Phil's approval in the weight-management department would fall in my favor.  When I am out shopping with friends, they want to buy that expensive dress, shoes, make-up, and I truthfully can't see it happening for me, not because of my husband - I have done my research - taking a brand new dress to the consignment or thrift store knocks it's value down to about $5.00 - even if it is from Montaldo's and is a designer dress.  I have personally found both real and faux fur coats, silk gowns, and designer dresses in the Salvation Army stores for $5.00 or less, and I can not see any reason to pay Vera Wang for her "creation" at full price when I will prob. come across it at the thrift store anyway, and be able to buy other nick-nack stuff along with it.  Who is Vera Wang anyway that she deserves that much of my hard earned money?  I've not met her personally, and as far as I'm concerned, I'm more important than she is in my life anyway...But because someone out there said this sentence, "Vera Wang, or Versacci, or Gucci, or Calvin Klein is important..." everyone else believes it.  I am here to tell you that I am important.  YOu should buy MY line of clothing, MY philosophy on life and so forth.  I'm every bit as good as they are.  Make-up?  Opra has done shows where the make-ups have been compared and all make-up is made in the same factory in New Jersey....you pay for a LABEL, ladies, not the make-up.  Generic comes from the same place as Mary Kay, Mabelline, and so forth.  You can even ORDER your own line of make-up and have the factory design you a specially shaped bottle, label and select fragrance, and so forth if you want to - it is all the same thing!  Me - I buy sale merchandice, generic, and look just as good as those wearing the expensive stuff.  I recently came across Mary Kay makeup in the thrift store, some poor soul had invested her husband's life savings in that business and could not sell it - so I got foundation for $1.00/bottle, plus blushers, eye shadows and lipstick for 50 Cents....I have 10 years worth of Mary Kay now, but i'm not dedicated to that brand.  I like variety.  I also went down to the wholesale shopping district in my city and bought myself a tiarra (yes a crown that beauty queens wear) and got it for $10.00, but they are usually sold for $50.00 and up in full price stores.  I wear my tiarra - I tell the kids I am QUEEN - Queen of housekeeping, Queen of cooking, Queen of driving, Queen of shopping.  Why should only "some" people be given a crown to be important with?????  I'm the most beautiful person I know on earth (I better think that as I have to see myself every day), so why not reward myself for all my inner and outer beauty, hard work, and smarts!  I am the only person I have, all the time, every day, eternally, and I better like myself - stuff does not make me valuable, I make stuff valuable.  

In short, my husband controlls the budget, I comply with it as I am able, and don't feel that regretful when I can't (even if it upsets him).  If he does not realize that I genuinely try to cooperate with him most of the time, that is not my problem, it is his problem.  I don't regret skipping the buying of "junk" as my friends did, because I now drive a better car and live in a better home with ample furniture, food, clothes, jewelry and make-up as they do, and have more spectacular vacations as well.  I realize that his goal is to leave me with a paid-for life when he dies, which I am genuinely thankfull for.  If I have a really genuine and expensive need, I tell him to budget me in for this need.  He usually does need to know "why" I have this need, and I sincerely do my best to show him.  I feel that the reason so many women feel their husbands are controlling them financially is because tv commercials, friendships, parent opinions and so forth put in their minds that they are being abused if they can not buy the $7.00 Revlon lipstick, when really the packaging gets thrown out anyway - don't feel abused, your husband just wants to make sure that you have a good retirement. While I did have to account for things, the money he saved went into big ticket items that I wanted - a rental home business, namely.  He bought me 2 brand new starter homes to rent out, so that in 30 years the rent would be our income (mine after he passes on...) - not a bad plan.   

One time me and my husband did have a difficult time in our marriage over money, and I really thought we would get a divorce (one can never be sure...) so I get a job and kept the pay checks to myself.  His only threat was "I'll divorce you if you keep the pay check!"  My counter was, "Well, I guess I will need the money then, if you are going to leave me, so I better hang on to it!"  His threat was my permission slip to keep my pay!  but the relationship healed and I quit the job as I did not like working that much anyway...  

What I am hearing is that the women who write in are MENTALLY CONTROLLED.  So what if he says "write that down, I need every nickel"....Try to do it, but don't do it if you can't - you have the pencil and the nickel!  It is up to you if you write it down.  Yes he will SCREAM, so just let him........he will scream and scream and then he will wear out from screaming like a little child.  They scream when their mommies have spoiled them rotten and they don't get their way because "mom" can't keep up any more.  You did what he wanted, and now you can't any more, so there you go.  He just has to scream.  Get ear plugs.  (if he proceeds to hit you, that is a dfifferent problem) - but screaming?  No big deal, it is just NOISE - pretend he is a huge beefy animal that is howling.  Foul words?  No problem, I looked up foul words and surprise surprise they don't really mean such bad things as you thought:  The infamous 'F' word is an ancient Danish word that means "copulation of cattle to enlarge the heard" - it's actually a funny word to use as a profanity.  Imagine him saying, "I'm going to force cattle to copulate if you spend any more money!"  Ya, right, like we live on a farm.......maybe you should take me on vacation TO a farm, then I could see you in action, hon!"  The "D" word?  You don't scare me, you are not God and only God can bring DAMNATION upon people - you think yourself a bit to high...and the "SH" word - no one knows it's history, but it means poo-poo.  While he SAYS poopoo, with the "sh" prefix, I'm cleaning it up off the bottoms of his precious children - as yet they are the only ones who have produced anything resembling "sh", and it has been no threat to me so far.  I have also been thrown up on by "surprise" in the middle of the jnight when one of the kids crawled in bed with me, sick - he has not done such things to me so far - hence no real threat, just a loud word, no problem a cheap pair of yellow, foam ear plugs can not solve.  But if you can't take the screaming, you should leave - go to the store, maybe you will buy something while he is screaming at the top of his lungs.  Perhaps a steak and potato that he can put on the grill when you get back.  You see, ladies, you HAVE power, but you do not USE power.  You let him controll what you DO, and what you THINK.  So stop that,  and do what YOU THINK.  Let him scream.  Let him chase you down with lists.  Call him at work at his desk when he is in meetings with the boss, and ask him, "Honey, can I afford this 59 cent head of lettuce, or do you want me to buy that 33 cent can of corn...and is it ok if I buy 3 cans of tuna instead of 2?"  Do that every single time you go to the store, and tell him " honey, you KNOW I loose stuff, you will have to be my personal assistant!"  He will love that!  Because, after all I'm way to "silly in the head" to keep track of things like he thinks I should, so I need him to do all that work FOR me - NOW WHO IS IN CONTROLL?   I am and he has to be my assistant.  Because the budget GOD is calling HIS NAME (not mine, I'm in a different religion....)  

My husband was divorced twice when we married (I had never been married) and had financial baggage from the 2nd marriage. She filed bankrupsy after the divorce and they came after him on accounts she was supposed to pay. He had also lied to me about the 2nd marriage.  I then insisted on a pre-nuptial agreement.  What is his, stays his and can go to his mother or daughter, what is mine stays mine and will go to my son.  I had already formed a Living Trust and had my home placed in it several years before I even met my husband.  We have never co-mingled funds.  He has a job that keeps him in his home state, I own a business that keeps me in my home state.  He works for a company that is in every city in the USA but refuses to transfer this close to retirement. He can retire in 2 years.  We want to live in the Northwest.  He has very little equity in his home.  I have enough equity in my home to pay cash for my dream house in the Northwest.  He plans on renting out his home, but wants me to agree that he can live in my new home for the rest of his life if anything happens to me.  I don't think it is fair that everything I have worked for the last 30 years to build for me and my son (I was a single Mom) should be tied up for the rest of his life if I die first.  We discuss this and I think it is resolved, then he keeps bringing it up and gets very nasty about it, saying that I don't trust him.  I asked him if he was going to keep bullying me unilt I give in to his demands, and he has no response.  These bullying tactics are not a good foundation for trust to grow!  He can move back into his home if I die, so why should my estate be tied up for years???????? We haven't even lived together yet, but manage to spend a week or so together approximately every 6 weeks.  We have been doing this long distance relationship for 4 1/2 years.  When we are together everything is fine.  I have been very generous with his family, I pay for vacations for us because I make more money.  I have never complained about what I spend, nor do I resent any of it.  He seems to harbor a resentment towards my son.  Do I stay in this marriage and try to placate him while still protecting my financial security or is this marriage doom to failure because of his resentment of the pre-nuptial agreement????  This is a question I live with every day!  

vlwc57, 

I have been this route 5 years ago.  He was not only "verbally" abusive and controlling, but he hit me and i had HAD IT.  I went to court explained my situation about it all.....the Judge put him out for 6 months...he stayed 7....and I was STUPID and scared and begged him back, yes, i guess i BACKED DOWN as you say............I have been married since I was 18 and am 50 now.  I know nothing but "depending" on him.!!!!!!  He KNOWS it.   Everyone told me half of this and half of that.....I dont' know because we "Owed" on everything.  He would sell the home and HIDE half of the funds from it, just like he did the joint business that we owned together.  He will have lots of money and say...I need to put it in a "fund" for "our retirement"....ha.  I get the picture.  If something DID happen....guess what.....I am screwed.   Really!  He would take it out Likety Split and put it in someone elses name.....Like he didn't own it until everything was settled.  I would be on food stamps and all.   Not that I wouldn't feel like sometimes I really would bet lots better off.   I have no family that I could go to.....so I would totally be out there.....alone.   I know this sound pitiful and so co-dependant.  Sorry, but I dont have no idea at this stage in my life HOW in the world I would even get a loan in my name, to buy a car, a home, etc.  Right now he is doing a little better....he has had his fit two weeks ago, etc etc.   Now he is all lovey dovey.....I am not lovey dovey....I feel nothing for him, right now! 

I agree with you and that is why I am in the process of getting my house ready to put on the market and have decided to move to Florida. I am feeling somewhat guilty about letting him stay here until I move but basically my self esteem is so bad and so low that I am using him like he has used me until I move.  

He actually thinks I am still in love with him, but honestly I am so emotionally unattached that I can't wait to move and be away. He also thinks that he can come to Florida whenever he wants to see me and spend time with me, I let him think that but again it will never happen he will know once I move that is over and final no going back.  

Now if I can get over being depressed that will be a help, I try to be positive and look at the good things but sometimes it is so hard because I don't  feel it. Maybe I am just being silly but its hard to feel anything right now. 

Many, many things that you describe are more than just money disagreements.  

You are living with many forms of abuse....starting with financial abuse.  

You are not to blame for his controlling the $$ and all the assets and possessions.  

He is placing the blame on you so that he can justify his behavior which is abuse....and his abuse of you and even your son.  

He is willfully using abusive tactics on you.  

There is an abuse message board here on the Dr. Phil web site.....why don't you come on over and post your story and vent to the ladies there .....they can help you to see that you are living with abuse.  

This is not a matter of finances.......this is power and control over you.  

This is abuse.  

What else is happening in your home?  

The abuse message board is located under Relationships/Sex.......then click on Marriage......then ABUSE.  

There are some wonderful and kind women there that post daily and often....your messages will be met with information, resources, friendship and great straightforward education.  

No beating around the bush.  

Take care.  

Waiting to see you there.  

This is the main reason why the divorce rate is so high. Everyone is looking for the other to provide for them. Whatever happen to 50/50. The wife haveing to pay his child support payment is really too much.  We all want to have relationships that we are willing to pay at any cost. My favorite saying " If you like it then I love it.