Topic : School Issues

Becky --

It was in good ol' FloriDUH!

Here's video from the local TV station, via CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/05/27/dnt.fl.voted.out.class.wptv

I've posted my opinion elsewhere, and don't want to hog space by repeating the whole thing here. Let me just say I'm not sure we've heard the entire story (Momma has done the lion's share of the talking), and perhaps a situation was permitted to continue for too long without some real intervention. It should NEVER have been allowed to reach that point!

Prof

I'm going to try to make this as "to the point" as possible, with all the facts... without turning it into a novel.  So here goes.

My son is 4, will be 5 in early July. 

He had a speech delay and then we realized that he was tongue tied (literally) at 2 1/2.  We had it fixed, and his speech started to improve.  At 3, we had him evaluated by our school and he did qualify for speech therapy.  He started going twice a week for 30 minutes each time in October of 2007.  By December 2007, he was caught up to age appropriate sounds.  But the therapist decided to continue working with him on advanced blends as he was doing so well.  He didn't go over the summer months, but did go for a year and was more than caught up.  He loved it and she never had any problems with him.

We live in a tiny town where there aren't any play groups or Mom groups.  We don't have gymboree that I hear some Moms talk about or anything like that.  All of my friends and family have kids much older than my son.  He played fine, but was always a little rough as that is how they always played.  When he got around kids his own age, we noticed that he would be rough (want to bear hug, grab, etc), so we put a stop to his rough play with the older kids as well.  But he just hasn't had the opportunity to be around many kids his own age.

After just turning 4, he started preschool.  It was 5 days a week (2 1/2 hours a day).  After just a few days, the teacher had a talk with me saying that he was autistic, had sensory integration, and other behavioral issues.  She said that he needed to be evaluated and receive therapy.  She invited me to "observe" in the class, which I did.  I did so for 3 weeks and my son had no trouble.  I did, however, not like what I saw with the teacher.  The things that she did get on to him for, I felt were not appropriate.  But I think she had already labeled him, and that was that.  So, just 6 weeks into school, we ended up pulling him out of that preschool.  It just was not a good fit for him.  Not the environment that he needed.  I have no regrets with that decision.  But, we did have him evaluated through the school for the preschool teacher's concerns.  The speech therapist, ocupational therapist, and special education teacher were all involved.  I know that they observed him in the class (without me there) and did several days of various tests/evaluations.  Their findings were that he was a "typical" immature 4 year old that lacked proper social skills.  They said that he did not have any noticeable disorders that required special attention.  They encouraged us to get him involved in various things, around other kids his age.  The special education teacher told me that she felt the preschool teacher simply tattled on herself by not doing her job.  She wanted my son "fixed" to fit into her way of teaching.

I'm not condoning his behavior, because he was handsy.  He was rough.  He was annoying to the other kids.  He's not mean, but just does not understand other's space.

About a month after pulling him out, we enrolled him in taekwondo classes.   He has done amazingly well there.  It's twice a week for about 30-60 minutes a class.

Since he's been in taekwondo, he has grown, matured, and progressed really well.  He no longer is handsy.  No longer rough.  He is respectful of other's space, uses manners, etc.  Over the past 6-7 months, we have had no concerns about that behavior.

I can take him with me anywhere, with no problems at all.  You could count on 2 hands how many trantrums he has hand in his life.  He's very easy for me to reason with.  He listens to me and is a very good boy for me.

Being young (our school's cut off date is August 1, so he would just barely be 5 before going to K if we sent him this fall), we had decided to wait a year with him and let him mature a bit more.  We felt the added year of maturity could only benefit.  Not only in these early years, but also down the road in those high school years.

Academically, he's amazing.  His memory is great and he loves to do anything academic. He's reading, writing, spelling, doing simple math, can tell basic time, knows his left from his right, can give me driving directions to get to places all over town and out of town, he knows his phone number, address, parent's real names, etc.  He's a big helper to me around the house too.  He loves to help me with housework, working in the garden, cooking, etc.  He enjoys riding his bicycle, swimming, swinging, taking walks, etc.

He does not have issues with food or clothing textures.  He does not have any problems with loud or sudden noises.   He sleeps and eats well.

His normal day consists of sitting at the kitchen table and doing some "homework" - his words.  We do those academic type workbooks together.  We also do crafts, art projects, coloring, painting, play-doh, etc.  We then walk to the park and play for a bit.  We may go swimming in the backyard, ride bikes, etc.  Sometimes we may watch a movie together.  He's VERY easy for me to control.  His energy level is never out of control.  I would say that he's average with his energy level.  He spends time with my parents, my sister, and other adults with no problems at all.  Even if other kids are around.

We did find a new preschool that we hope to send him to this fall.  We went to the open house where all of the kids were taken into the classroom to have fun, while the parents listened to the speech about the school.  He spent over an hour with them, playing.  I'd say there were about 50 kids in that room being supervised by 4-5 parents.  When we went to pick him up, they said that he was a delight and a great help to them with the other kids.  They said that he loved to talk and help out.  This preschool will start off 3 days a week (half days) and then in a couple of months go to 5 days a week (half days). 

So this summer, it was brought to our attention that our public school (same one associated with the preschool we had trouble with) was going to offer kinergarten summer school.  It was supposed to be fun, with a little academics.  The teacher is someone I personally know, and who is retiring after this summer session.  She's WONDERFUL, so I thought it would be a great experience for my son.  Summer school runs for 4 weeks and is from 7:45 AM to 3:15 PM (regular school hours).  The all day thing concerned me, but it was just for 4 weeks and we thought he would have fun.

He had been doing so good.  We saw NO problems with him, whether it was at the park playing with a group of kids, or his taekwondo class where there are a LOT of kids.  And during the games, it can get wild and crazy as they all run around.  When we do get to take him around kids his age at a special play group that happens about 2 times a year, he does great.  About 100 kids running wild and playing.  He loves to interact with others... no matter the age.  He doesn't have a shy bone in his body.  He's VERY social.  He will talk to anyone and likes to strike up conversations with others....  kids too!  In the last 6-7 months, we have had zero problems and have been so proud of his progress and his behavior.

This past Tuesday, summer school started.  And it was a disaster!  He would not keep his hands to himself.  He would not listen to the teacher.  The teacher said hat he wasn't "mean", but that if she didn't know better, she would think that he was a spoiled brat that was not made to mind and never disciplined.  She said that she had to spend the bulk of her day dealing with him.  I was totally embarrassed, mad, and shocked!  I KNOW that this teacher is great with him and not doing anything out of line like in the preschool class.  I just did not know what to tell her as I just kept saying that he was doing sooooo good!!  On Wednesday, they had to call in another teacher to help.  The second teacher pretty much just sat by him and then he did great.  If the teacher wasn't right there, he would step on other kid's toes, or bang into them with his chest, or constantly touch them, or lean on them, etc.

So Wednesday, we also had his taekwondo class, so after school we headed to that.  We had a talk with his instructor who I thin felt we were over reacting and thinking we were talking about slight figiting as he kept saying that sometimes we need to pick our battles and not worry about the little stuff.  He has seen NO problems with my son.  He actually says that he's one of his star students.  He focuses perfectly, listens great, is learning the forms well, and does great in his class.  He stands in line perfectly.  He sits by the other kids great.  He runs around playing games and keeps his hands to himself.  He has never attempted to step on anyone or lean on them or grab them or bang into them.  But, the instructor said that he would pay extra attention to see if he saw anything.  The main instructor is always there, but usually he has a trainee teach the little ones as he observes.  But, about 5 minutes after his class started, he got a phone call that drew him into his office.  After they did about 15 minutes of form work, they were allowed to play a game as usual.  There were just a few kids playing, and my son was a total different kid.  He was running into the other kids on purpose.  He was trying to knock them down.  He was grabbing at them, etc.  It was AWFUL!!!  We kept thinking that the instructor was going to come out and see this as we really wanted him to handle it.  My son has huge respect for him.  But that didn't happen.  The trainee was trying to get him to stop and would physically grab him and even had him doing push ups.  I was so torn on whether I should have snatched him out of there, but again, I was so hoping that the instructor would catch this.

I know this was a big day for him, but it wasn't like he did so well at school and the taekwondo class was his "outlet" as he didn't behave at school either.

Thursday and Friday were more of the same.  I had told the teacher to put him in time out... in a chair away from everyone.  A place where he could not touch anyone or anything.  I also told her not to give him any attention over his behavior... not even the negative kind.  No talks as he knows why he's in trouble.  Just set him there with a brief "that's not acceptable behavior" and then tend to the other children.  She used this on Friday and said that she saw some improveements at times.

I'm at a loss here.  What happened??  I know that all day is a lot, but this behavior starts from first thing of the morning.  We are currently making him earn back things with good behavior in school.  We just started that last night by removing everything that he holds dear.  We have never done anything like this and this afternoon, he finally seems to understand that we mean business.  He's telling me that "if I'm good at school, I can have that car back?" 

If he couldn't help it, that would be one thing and I think it would at least be easier for me to understand.  We could head in the right direction for help.  But I feel in my heart and soul that he CAN control this.

How can he do so well for so long and then all of a sudden, BAM!  The summer school lasts for 3 more weeks.  Do we stick it out and see how he does or pull him out?  Is it too much for him?  How can he do so well for me and his taekwondo class, but not in  school setting?  He can sit for a long time here at home to do school work.  He can sit and do that at other people's houses. 

Could it be a "testing boundaries" issue?  I'm VERY strict at home in that I don't back down and I mean what I say.  His taekwondo instructor is also very firm.

I didn't want to write a novel, but appears that I have.  I think I have covered everything, but if anyone has any questions or needs me to clarify something, please let me know.  I appreciate any and all input and advice here.

Thank you!!!

I'm going to try to make this as "to the point" as possible, with all the facts... without turning it into a novel.  So here goes....

First, let me say it seems like you have a delightful, intelligent and wonderful son! I give you a lot of credit for following up on what the 1st teacher 'thought' his problem was at school. I am aware that there are children/adults with disorders, syndromes, etc (from personal experience) but I also believe far too many are poorly diagnosed, labeled and medicated. Please don't allow that to happen with your son.

What does your son have to say about his behaviour at school... does he give you any explanations as to why he is acting like that? Is he bored?

Was his hearing tested?

Any siblings?

Any life changing experiences (divorce,death,birth of another child,new home,etc)

Any other times that he behaves like this?

Does he do activities at home by himself (without you overseeing, praising, directing,etc)?

Please don't take any offense to any of my questions, I really just want your son to be successful in the classroom environment. If any of these questions were answered in your original post, I apologize.

I don't mind the questions at all.  I wrote a lot... rattled on and on and probably didn't make much sense.

My son says that "his behavior isn't great and could be better."  He doesn't really say why he acts like that. When asked, he may say "I don't know", or "he didn't mean to", or "the other kids were acting that way", or he may try to say that he was a good boy, but when I question why the teacher said otherwise, he will say "yes, I wasn't very good."

Yes, his hearing has been tested 3 times.  All routine.  No problems found.

He has a sister who will be 3 in July.  They have their little sibling "spats", but they really do well together.  And especially these past 6-7 months, there has been none of the kicking, pushing, handsy stuff with her either.

No life changing experiences in the past couple of years.  The last big thing being the arrival of his little sister.

Up until a few days ago when he started this summer school, he had not acted like this at all, anywhere, anytime for the past 6-7 months.

Yes, he does all sorts of activities on his own with no problems.   He also does great with it just being him and his little sister to do some activities alone together.

I don't take offense at all to your questions.  I welcome and appreciate them.  Any input you can offer to help me figure out what is going on with my son, is very much wanted.

Your son is still young, and some kids take longer to be socially mature.  It sounds like your son is very smart, and you've been a great parent.

Our older two boys had trouble sitting still and paying attention in class...from day one...they are both very smart.  I think that the class material is set for "average intelligence" kids, with average knowledge of the material...smart kids get bored...also, if he is a "hands-on" learner, and the class is mostly sitting and listening, it's not a good fit.  Our older two boys were diagnosed ADHD...after years of being on "ill-fitting" meds, it turns out that they both have Narcolepsy, and the middle one also has Restless Leg Syndrome...they were always tired...no wonder they coudln't sit still and pay attention!!  We are still struggling every day with our middle child...homework issues...it is frustrating because we know he is smart...everything he turns in gets an A...but the stuff he doesn't turn in pulls his grades way down...he is 14, and a freshman in high school.

Unfortunately, living in a small town, you probably don't have a lot of choices for teachers.  It would be nice if the kids could be tested for their learning styles and acedemic levels, and placed accordingly...would be nice...but it's not going to happen.  Schools try to have the same ratio of girls and boys in every class, and every level of learning evenly distributed, and an even number of "problem children" in each class...not really fair to anybody, if you ask me.

We, too, live in a small town, with limited resources. All three of our boys are very smart (not just me...the teachers say so too)...Smart kids need to stay challenged, and they need teaching appropriate to their learning style.  Our youngest son is studious, and he always does his work...because he doesn't have behavior problems, the teacher gives him advanced work, and he is allowed to read advanced books (he reads way above his grade level)...just turned 10, 4th grade.  I wish that the teachers would have done this for our older boys...if they had been challenged from the beginning, they may have been more able to focus, and may have formed better study habits...it's hard for kids to do work that is too easy for them...they get frustrated because it is so boring...and they may refuse to do it...also, the hands-on learners get bored with being made to sit still all day...they need to use their hands...

I don't know what the solution is...we can't afford private school, where the class sizes are much smaller, and the teachers are able to give each student more individual attention...but it would be nice.  In our elementary schools, there are 25 to 30 kids per class!!  In high school, there are 35 kids per class!!  Much of the teacher's day is spent managing the crowd!!

I think that having an extra teacher in the class is a good idea...every K-3 class should have 2 adults...especially if the class is large.  I think that the teacher should avoid putting too much emphasis on your son's behavior...I'm sure he's not the only one acting up...our k-3 teachers had a system where they had a board with clothes pins, and multiple "steps"...if they were misbehaving, they had to move their clothes pin to the next step...they had several chances before they were sent to the office...and the teachers were calm about having the kids move their clothes pins...not putting  too much focus on one student...

Going to all-day school for the first time is, in itself, a life-changing event for your son...stick with it, and keep in contact with the teacher.  If you are able to, volunteer to help in the class...not just to manage your own son, but to help in a specific area...I volunteered in our kids' classes for years...correcting papers, helping kids with their reading, doing craft projects with them...I think my own kids got more respect from the other kids, and the teachers, because I was there helping.  Being there gives you a chance to see first-hand what the behaviors are, and to keep in close communication with the teachers.  Your son will eventually learn how to act around others...they aren't born knowing how to behave...it is learned...and behaving around others isn't something they can learn at home...they need the exposure to other kids.

You're a great mom...keep up the good work...Becky

(oops, mis-hit a key, TWICE. LOL)

Actually, it will be in about an hour and a half, but it's all over bar the shouting. Anne had her last final yesterday; she "thinks" she did OK, same with her 2 papers and accompanying presentations. We'll have to see when the report cards come out, I guess. I know she's slipped in a couple of her classes this past 9 weeks -- chalk it up to post-FCAT spring fever. She's coming to the realization, though, that the good grades just won't come automatically, that she has to actually *work* for them. I'd much rather see her learn this now than later!

Becky, what's the good word on your 3? I know the 2 younger ones have a couple weeks to go yet; is Scott still improving on getting his work done on time? Will the Homework Contract carry over into next year, or will you all be starting from scratch in September? I'll bet Matthew has a summer reading list picked out already. =)

Dunno how much I'll be around these boards from now until fall, but I will check in periodically.

Prof

We have another week to go...School is out on June 13th.  Scott is still failing in Social Studies...he is supposed to be making up some of the work, so he can get at least partial credit for it.  We are focusing on the high-point-value items first.  He has a bunch of missing work in math too...those zero scores haven't been tabulated into his grade yet...he is in danger of failing there too...it may be summer school for him!!

John still is looking for a new job.  He finally went in yesterday and talked with his boss.  He told her that he needs at least 20 hours per week...she said she would re-arrange the schedule to acomodate him...we'll see what happens there...he is still in culinary school...until December.

The homework contract will start over at the beginning of next year...we'll have to re-work part of it...he will still earn time on the computer for homework brought home, but the long-term points might have to be based on assignments turned in...points gained for assignments turned in, and points lost for missed assignments...I'll have to think it through carefully...

Matthew is planning to read Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn over the summer...if they are AR books, he will re-read them in the fall for AR credit...we'll see if he is ready for the Southern dialect that Mark Twain wrote in his books.  I don't know if they are on the AR list because of "certain words" contained in the books...later versions may have been edited to exclude those words.

The kids will have to read for one hour before they are allowed to play computer games...I don't want their brains to melt away over the summer.

We are reviving the Boy Scout Troop in our little town...it has been inactive for a few years.  Scott is excited to be in it...he was in a troop that was 20 miles away, but when it was discovered that he has a heart arrhythmia, the leader of the troop said he couldn't go on hikes anymore...even though DAD was willing to go along.  My husband is the Scoutmaster.  We already have three boys, and two more coming in.  We are having a BBQ soon to recruit for the Boy Scouts and the Cub Scouts...we want to show the boys and their families what Scouting is all about.  My husband and the other dads will be taking the boys on some hikes and campouts over the summer.  Matthew has one more year of Cub Scouts, and then he will join the troop.  The Webelos (4th and 5th graders) will get to go on some of the Boy Scout outings as part of earning their badges.  It will be a lot of work, but it will be fun...we have 8 more years of having Scout-age boys, so we're in it for the long haul.  We'll tailor the hikes according to the ability levels of the boys. The biggest issue is parent participation...we need the parents to volunteer to help...we will assign them jobs based on their interests and talents...there is plenty for everybody to do and plenty to be involved in.

Well, I had better get busy...the kids have a half-day today...they will be home in a few minutes...

Becky

There is a Lanterman Act passed in 1974 that is also known as the Developmentally Disabled person's Bill of Rights.  Under this law a special needs child is entitled to an education until his 21st birthday.  If you think your child has special needs then you need to have him/her tested 6 months before enrolling him/her in school.  Once the test is completed then an iep(individual education plan) must be done.  The parent must be involved along with any advocate they wish to bring.  This is a time where they are placed into special education.

What happen in Florida was just wrong.  You do not put a special needs child in a regular class and then have the teacher (she is no doctor) decide to take a vote from among a class of 5 year old's as to whether the child stays or goes.  Then ask the child where he will go now that he is out.

I am speaking from my own experience as a parent of a special needs child that when through the school system and is now 41 years old.

We have our daughter in special olympics and handicapable square dancing. 

Last thought:  They may have special needs but they still have human feelings try thinking of this before you act.

Have you ever had a teacher in school that you absolutely despised?  I do.  It was my fifth grade teacher.  She yelled at her students and seemed to be in a perpetual PMS state.  The big thing that made her the "worst teacher I've ever had" was the following account.

I was enrolled in a year-round program.  It was the middle of July in south Texas and 100 degrees at 90% humidity.  The portable we'd been using was being serviced for the day, so we couldn't stay there.  What does the teacher do?  We stayed OUTSIDE in the 100 degree heat for THE ENTIRE DAY!!!! 

One student collapsed from heat stroke at one point during the day, and being fair-skinned, I received a deep sunburn, increasing the chances of basal cell carcinoma later in life.   The stupid woman exposed the entire class to heat stroke and dehydration, which can KILL you, btw- an electrolyte imbalance can stop your heart, which is why it's SO important to stay hydrated (there was NO cooler full of bottled water, her answer was to "find a water fountain").  10-year-olds HAD NO BUSINESS being outside the ENTIRE DAY in 100 degree heat, no clouds in the sky, slowly dying of dehydration.

There are many different alternatives to the torture she exuded on her students.  She SHOULD HAVE called everyone's parents for permission to take us to the library or other air-conditioned building.  Then tried to get a bus from Transportation to come out.  If she was too stupid to keep a list of parents, take them anyway.  If I were a parent in the situation, I would want the teacher to exercise COMMON SENSE and choose the air-conditioned building over an Auschwitz-like oven in the event that I couldn't be contacted.  She wouldve gotten in less trouble with me keeping the children SAFE than having a student COLLAPSE!!!

If she couldn't have gotten a bus, then call up a few room mothers, they would have been glad to offer transportation to the Public Library.  The safety of those kids should have been her primary concern and I hope she got in trouble for it.  I think the parents would have been more forgiving if she had bothered to take everyone out of that dangerous situation and actually took care of her students. 

Congratulations, the criminal negligence she displayed nominates her for "THE WORST TEACHER I"VE EVER HAD".