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Topic : 09/21 Cult Confrontations

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Created on : Friday, September 15, 2006, 12:03:46 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Imagine growing up in a free society, but being forced to live in isolation without money, TV, cars, or contact with your family. That’s what Dr. Phil’s guests say happened to them in a religious sect known as the Aggressive Christianity Mission Training Corps. Maura brought her daughter, Rebekah, with her to the sect when Rebekah was 12. The mother and daughter say members of the cult abuse children and belittle adults who question authority. How can they move on with their lives? Then, Paula says her daughter, Stacy, cut her off when she joined the Aggressive Christianity Mission Training Corps. Paula hasn’t seen Stacy in 10 years, and maintains that her daughter was brainwashed and emotionally kidnapped. Find out what happens when Dr. Phil sends Paula to the compound with a private investigator to find Stacy. Then, Fawn B. and her friend, Fawn H., had recently escaped a polygamist cult and were having trouble adjusting to their new life. Fawn B. has been excelling in school, but the other Fawn dropped out, ran away and has experimented with sex, drugs and alcohol. Can the troubled teen turn her life around? Join the discussion.

Find out what happened on the show.

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September 22, 2006, 6:31 pm CDT

09/21 Cult Confrontations

Quote From: tarao72

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints most certainly DO NOT practice polygamy, as you most correctly stated, and yes, those who do will be excommunicated becaue it is absolutely wrong today. Polygamny *was* practiced in the 1800's upon God's commandment (revelation recieved through the prophet)., and is therefore mentioned in the Doctrine and Covenants. But it was discontinued shortly thereafter, and today, it is made very clear that polygamy is against the belief of the LDS church.

 

There is not a "minimum number of wives" needed to enter heaven, simple and plain. One spouse is all that is necessary and especially to have more than one spouse at the same time is frowned upon.

 

please understand that Warren Jeffs and the FLDS Church (who has now changed their name to the Church of Christ or something like that) ARE MOST CERTAINLY NOT related to the LDS church. the FLDS church branched off when polygamy was discontinued, and have since changed many of their practices and beliefs. the LDS church definitely does not practice nor advocate these beliefs and the two religions are very different. the LDS church does not support the FLDS church. they are totally seperate.

Thank you for the clarification.
 
September 23, 2006, 11:49 am CDT

Growing up in a cult

Watching the shows about Cults brought back so many memories.  There are also main stream religious cults.  I grew up in a Fundamentalist Baptist Church, which was a "closet" cult. The women are taught the man is the head of the house, and the men are not to be questioned. The minister where I was going rebuked me for having a "honey do" list for my husband on his vacation.  When I spoke back, laughed saying "he wasn't on vacation but on strike  form his company", the minister  was not happy with me at all.

I am fifty-seven years old and have been in therapy since 1987 off and on.  The counselor I have now said he would diagnose my condition as "post traumaic stress syndrome".  I raised my daughters in this church until I finally could not stand it any longer, much to my parents anger.  They have also been traumatized.  There is so much more that happened.  I have always wondered how many others raised in a Fundamentalist Baptist Church are having the some struggles I am having.  I try so hard to get over it, but I can't seem to go on.  I have had to quit work because I can hardly leave the house because I feel of no value.  Remember, we women are of no value.  I told my mother two years ago that she never hug, kiss or told me she loved me and she said she didn't know she had too.  When I was eighteen, I had a breast tumor and my father said God was punishing me.  I also had some problems in my marriage in the late '80s and my father said he would rather I live in an abusive relationship than embarrass him in fornt of his church.

 
September 23, 2006, 5:55 pm CDT

Why do people use "God" for evil deeds?

Quote From: nannytwo

Watching the shows about Cults brought back so many memories.  There are also main stream religious cults.  I grew up in a Fundamentalist Baptist Church, which was a "closet" cult. The women are taught the man is the head of the house, and the men are not to be questioned. The minister where I was going rebuked me for having a "honey do" list for my husband on his vacation.  When I spoke back, laughed saying "he wasn't on vacation but on strike  form his company", the minister  was not happy with me at all.

I am fifty-seven years old and have been in therapy since 1987 off and on.  The counselor I have now said he would diagnose my condition as "post traumaic stress syndrome".  I raised my daughters in this church until I finally could not stand it any longer, much to my parents anger.  They have also been traumatized.  There is so much more that happened.  I have always wondered how many others raised in a Fundamentalist Baptist Church are having the some struggles I am having.  I try so hard to get over it, but I can't seem to go on.  I have had to quit work because I can hardly leave the house because I feel of no value.  Remember, we women are of no value.  I told my mother two years ago that she never hug, kiss or told me she loved me and she said she didn't know she had too.  When I was eighteen, I had a breast tumor and my father said God was punishing me.  I also had some problems in my marriage in the late '80s and my father said he would rather I live in an abusive relationship than embarrass him in fornt of his church.

This kind of garbage coming from "churches" just chaps my hyde. "God" doesn't punish any of his children. Any religion that makes a single reference to women being "second" to men is a religion you should run from immediately. Additionally, African Americans, American Indians, women, and gays are no better and no worse than any other man or woman on this planet. And any religion that hints at racial and/or sexual discrimination is also one you should run from.

 

It's a shame that sooooo many people use a wharped belief in God to ruin peoples' lives. You need to realize that God loves you as much as any other person on the planet.  God has no "special" people. We are all equals. I hope you can recover from this.

 
September 24, 2006, 11:43 am CDT

09/21 Cult Confrontations

Quote From: nannytwo

Watching the shows about Cults brought back so many memories.  There are also main stream religious cults.  I grew up in a Fundamentalist Baptist Church, which was a "closet" cult. The women are taught the man is the head of the house, and the men are not to be questioned. The minister where I was going rebuked me for having a "honey do" list for my husband on his vacation.  When I spoke back, laughed saying "he wasn't on vacation but on strike  form his company", the minister  was not happy with me at all.

I am fifty-seven years old and have been in therapy since 1987 off and on.  The counselor I have now said he would diagnose my condition as "post traumaic stress syndrome".  I raised my daughters in this church until I finally could not stand it any longer, much to my parents anger.  They have also been traumatized.  There is so much more that happened.  I have always wondered how many others raised in a Fundamentalist Baptist Church are having the some struggles I am having.  I try so hard to get over it, but I can't seem to go on.  I have had to quit work because I can hardly leave the house because I feel of no value.  Remember, we women are of no value.  I told my mother two years ago that she never hug, kiss or told me she loved me and she said she didn't know she had too.  When I was eighteen, I had a breast tumor and my father said God was punishing me.  I also had some problems in my marriage in the late '80s and my father said he would rather I live in an abusive relationship than embarrass him in fornt of his church.

http://forum.rickross.com/  There are others in the same predicament.  
 
September 24, 2006, 9:07 pm CDT

09/21 Cult Confrontations

Quote From: billyjo148

 

Dear Dr.Phil;

 

I too am a survivor of a cult. and it is not easy getting away from them. its taking me 38 yrs of my life ,  I am 38 yrs old,  I was kidnapped after I was born. the cult members gave me something that made my parents and Doctor beleive i was dead, untill  I turned up in a Billings Hospital with the leg band still my ankle , it has been a long journey and i wish this on no one. I have had to run away myself, had all my children takin away, and to learn who took them was the very people involved in the cult, these people are Socail workers, doctors, professional , to housewives, to get enough garbage on this group. finally it is being investigated by the Montana FBI. there is still along ways to go I have learned my true Identity. I know I can not be the only one with this problem if you would like to hear more of my story I would like to share it however I am not sure how much I can share at the moment. I have had death threats. constant harrassment from the members involved. at the moment Iam in my apartment as it is the safest place for me.  The CULT in Montana have never been procucuded for any of their crimes.

crimes range from  Murder to child porn and the list goes on

 

Billyjo   from  Montana

I'm writing to warn everyone about a "home for wayward girls" in Winona Lake, Indiana, called Hephzibah House, run by a minister named Ronald E Williams.
I am greatly concerned that severe child abuse may be taking place at Hephzibah House, after reading one of Williams' online sermons on childrearing, the "The Correction and Salvation of Children".
In this tract Williams advocates physical correction of children, using a "rod", and advises parents that beatings of up to two hours duration might be necessary in some cases to "break a child's will" .

He also advises the use of the rod on small infants, saying,
"When should a parent start using the rod of correction on a child that the Lord has brought into the family? There is no clear and specific answer to this very good question. However, it is my opinion that the correction of children should start as soon as the need for that correction is made manifest. Every discerning parent who has been blessed with a little child in his home realizes that his initial impression of the sweetness and the innocence of the child is in reality an illusion. A child very quickly demonstrates his fallen, depraved nature and reveals himself to be a selfish little beast in manifold ways. As soon as the child begins to express his own self-will (and this occurs early in life) that child needs to receive correction. My wife and I have a general goal of making sure that each of our children has his will broken by the time he reaches the age of one year. ***** To do this, a child must receive correction when he is a small infant.*****Every parent recognizes that this self-will begins early as he has witnessed his child stiffen his back and boldly demonstrate his rebellion and self-will even though he has been fed, diapered, and cared for in every other physical way."

I truly believe that this guy is DANGEROUS! And, he runs a lockdown facility for girls. It seems he also has a lot of influence around Winona Lake -- apparently he hasn't been investigated in years, despite several allegations of abuse. 

Dr. Phil, or ANYONE, I hope you will read this and investigate this guy.

Here is the URL for his tract, it's become a bit hard to find online, though he sells it on his website:
http://www.gotothebible.com/HTML/correctionchildren.html

Here is the URL to Hephzibah House:
http://www.hephzibahhouse.org/

(If you click on Audio-Visual store link on this site you can buy more of his tracts on VHS format for $10 a pop, to watch on your TV (despite the fact that Williams himself condemns TV ownership as a grave sin)

And -- hold onto your lunch -- here is Williams' childrearing tract in its entirety:

The Correction and Salvation of Children
By Ronald E. Williams


Believers Baptist Church, 508 School St., Winona Lake, IN 46590
(219) 269-2376

TWO DIRECTIVES OF SOLOMON FOR THE CORRECTION AND SALVATION OF
CHILDREN

"Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him
with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod,
and shalt deliver his soul from hell." Proverbs 23:13,14

THE FIRST DIRECTIVE: The perception of my duty and the promise
involved if I carry out my duty

A. The perception of my duty

"Withhold not correction from the child."

Through a negative admonition, "withhold not," Solomon is
encouraging us to perceive what our duty is with regard to our
child. One might ask, Why is it necessary to be told what our duty
is? Because we would naturally "withhold" instead of obeying. The
Scripture indicates in Proverbs 13:24, "He that spareth his rod,
hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes." Many
parents today are in a position where they Biblically hate their
children because they are not acting against their natural feelings
and disciplining themselves towards the Godly habit-pattern of
consistent correction. In other words, it takes work, wisdom, self
discipline, and

Godliness to correct children the way the Lord wants.

Fight your feelings

The concept of having to be told what to do in order that we can
combat our natural feelings is illustrated in other areas of our
lives. The Lord Jesus, for example, taught in Matthew 5:28 that it
is wrong for a man to look lustfully upon a woman, implicitly
telling us to not do that. One could ask, Why does He teach such a
thing? Because men naturally look upon women in a lustful way. In
fact, any man who claims that he has never had a problem in this
area is either a liar or he is dead! Just as the Scripture
indicates "the eyes of man are never satisfied" (Proverbs 27:20).
Therefore, the Lord, recognizing our weakness, has admonished men
not to look lustfully at women. Men must not operate on the basis of
their natural inclinations, but on the basis of what is right,
controlling their feelings and the flesh in the process.

Another example would be in the area of a man loving his wife. The
Apostle Paul in Ephesians 5:25 says, "Husbands, love your wives even
as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for it." Why did
the Spirit of God believe it necessary to instruct a man through the
Apostle Paul to love his wife as Christ loved the church? Because a
man would not naturally do this. A man is naturally in love with
himself even as that same chapter indicates in 5:29: "For no man
ever yet hateth his own flesh but nourisheth and cherisheth it even
as the Lord the church." A man left to his own inclinations and
desires will love himself supremely above all others. A Christian,
however, who is obedient to the Spirit of God and to the Word of
God, will love his wife and not submit to the natural inclination to
love himself first; even as the Lord Jesus demonstrated through His
supreme example in His love for the church. Therefore, when the Lord
gives a negative admonition to parents to "withhold not," it is in
keeping with this Biblical principle of instructing parents to obey
where they will have to overcome their natural inclinations, control
their emotions and do what is right even when they do not feel like.

Whose job?

Who is to perceive this duty that Solomon outlines? The Hebrew
language indicates in this passage through a second person masculine
singular suffix that Solomon is probably addressing a man. The
context of course, would indicate that the father of the household
is the subject of Solomon's admonition. Solomon, in doing this, is
underscoring and agreeing with the rest of Scripture when it teaches
that child-training and education is the primary responsibility of
the father of that child. The primary responsibility for this vital
task is not delegated by God to the mother, Sunday School teacher,
pastor, day school teacher, grandparents, or any other person, but
is the primary responsibility of the father. Obviously, these other
individuals are an invaluable help to the father, especially his
wife, but they are helpers only. A father will stand before the
judgment seat of Christ and give an account for the spiritual,
emotional, and physical welfare and training of his wife and
children. It therefore behooves a father to be extremely judicious
and cautious in whom he selects to be his helpers in the vital task
of training and educating his child. Why?

So as not to compromise the Biblical standard he must inculcate in
his children.

This same principle is especially underscored in Deuteronomy 6:7--
"And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt
talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest
by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up."
Moses in that Old Testament passage uses a similar ending or suffix
on the words in that verse, again indicating that he is addressing
the heads of Hebrew households, or more simply, the fathers of each
family. Moses, as a spokesman, for the Lord, indicated that God
expects the father in the home to diligently train the children in
Godliness and in God's standards.

This concept is not exclusively an Old Testament concept, but is
highlighted again in the New Testament. Ephesians 6:4 states: "And
ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath, but bring them up in
the nurture and admonition of the Lord." The Apostle Paul directly
addresses fathers in this verse and lays the responsibility for
nurture and admonition squarely on their shoulders. So to answer the
question, "Who is to perceive this duty of correction," one must
simply answer, it is the responsibility of the father to perceive
this duty.

What job needs to be done?

Next we need to ask, what is the duty perceived by the father?
Solomon indicates that the duty to be perceived by the father is
something he calls "correction." Correction in the Bible has two
basic ideas. The first idea is training through oral instruction.
This is a vital part of child- training and cannot be neglected lest
the child not receive a balanced instruction from his father. The
Scripture indicates that it is the rod and reproof that gives
wisdom, not the rod alone (Proverbs 29:15). The other aspect of this
word "correction" is training through physical scourging or
chastening. Both concepts are involved.

Who is the object of our attention?

With whom is the duty of correction concerned? This passage
indicates that "the child" is the object of concern with regard to
Godly correction. Many young people, in learning about the Biblical
standard of correction, might well ask, who is a child and who is
not? The Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Old Testament
Hebrew Scriptures) uses the word meaning a minor child to translate
this word. One could well ask, how old a child should receive
physical correction? Or, to put it another way, when is a child not
a child?

It is my opinion that the parents of that youngster should decide
when a child is no longer a child and when he should no longer
receive the correction of which Solomon speaks in this passage.
Admittedly, this is not always an easy decision inasmuch as an older
child may do unlawful things that the parent believes should be
corrected by the rod. I would suggest three simple thoughts as
possible helps in determining when a child is no longer a child in
need of physical correction. First, when that child starts paying
his own bills from his own resources he has probably reached the
level of responsibility wherein he will respond better to the
reproofs of life given him by the Lord than he will by the rod of
correction given him by his earthly father. Second, when that child
starts his own household, whether it be as a single adult or as a
married adult, he is quite obviously out of the realm of being
physically corrected. Third, it is my suggestion that a child in
your home be corrected according to his emotional age rather than
his physical age.

In my limited experience, I have often encountered a child who
physically has attained an age many parents would view as being too
old to receive physical correction. However, that same child may be
committing extremely immature and irresponsible acts in his life
that could well benefit from the rod of correction. With these
things in mind, you as a parent can be helped in determining when
physical correction with the rod should be used and when it should
not. These are not guidelines that should be chiseled in stone but
might prove helpful.

One thing is certain, correction with the rod should and must start
very early. In fact, correction with the rod should start much
earlier than our contemporary godless and irresponsible society
believes is normative. The Scripture says, "Chasten thy son while
there is hope and let not thy soul spare for his crying" (Proverbs
19:1Cool. In other words, there is a time when there is real hope that
a child can be corrected and have his will broken by the parent who
uses the rod of correction, and there is a time when that hope
diminishes by virtue of the child's advancing age.

In my position as the director of a rehabilitation ministry for
troubled teenage girls, I receive phone calls daily from desperate
parents all across the United States. They have children for whom
all hope seems to be gone because they did not start the use of the
rod of correction while there was hope as the Scriptures mandated. I
do not mean to discourage parents with older teenagers, who have
suddenly been exposed to God's inspired instructions in this matter.
As long as you have a child under your authority and your home where
you can directly supervise and correct him, there still is hope that
you may turn that child from his wicked ways and break his will. You
may still teach him to submit to authority in his life.

A good illustration of this hope is found in the case of a mother
who called me from a distant state about her troubled teenage
daughter. This teenager had gotten into such continual mischief and
wickedness that the desperate mother went to the local hardware
store and purchased a lock and chain with which to lock the girl to
her body. This unorthodox measure kept the girl in her home at night
but fell far short of Scriptural methodology in changing the heart!
I explained to the mother that we did not have room to receive the
girl at the time because our beds were filled. However, I mentioned
that I could give her a possible answer for her predicament. I also
said, "But I doubt that you will follow through." The mother,
hearing that there might be a solution to her crisis, desperately
implored, "Yes, I will take your counsel. What is your solution?" I
then proceeded to explain that the mother should get a stick that
would not break and get after that daughter until the daughter asked
for peace in their relationship. The mother hesitated in silence for
a time on that long distance telephone call, and then seemingly made
a firm commitment before me and the Lord that she would do so. She
answered, "Alright, I will!" I then forgot about the mother and her
call inasmuch as we receive several calls like this daily.

Three weeks later, I received a phone call from this same mother. I
had forgotten who she was and was reminded of her identity only when
she reminded me of the lock and chain she had purchased to secure
her daughter. I remembered who she was at that point since that was
a unique method of restraining the girl. I asked, "Well, what has
happened since our last conversation?" The mother replied that she
had taken my advice to secure a large stick that would not break,
and to quote the mother, "I wore off her behind!" I chuckled at the
mother's response and thoroughly enjoyed the rest of the story. She
went on to explain that she was simply amazed and dumbfounded at her
daughter's change of heart following the severe thrashing that the
mother gave her. It seems that the daughter, for the first time in
sixteen years, chose to obey her mother when she realized that the
mother was unflinchingly determined to break the girl's will and to
settle for nothing less than complete obedience. The mother then
said, "And it has lasted for three weeks! But I think she needs it
again this week." This dramatic illustration of how one mother
solved the problem of breaking the will of her daughter points up
how God's methods really can and do work. But a parent must be fully
purposed and determined in his heart that he will obey God no matter
what the consequences.

B. The promise involved if I carry out my duty

The second part of the first directive is the promise involved if I
carry out my duty. "For if thou beatest him with the rod he shall
not die." The condition of the promise is found in the phrase, "if
thou beatest him with the rod." Who meets this condition? Again, the
original Hebrew gives us the clue. Another masculine suffix is used
here indicating that the father is probably the one who shoulders
the responsibility of meeting this condition. The specific action
involved in meeting the condition is summed up by Solomon in the
word "beat." To use this word in connection with child correction
conjures up in the listening mind all manner of horrible child abuse
through stories vividly displayed by our mass media and by liberal
thinking do-gooders. They decry almost any form of child correction
beyond praise and persuasive speech or possibly withdrawal of
privilege. God however, who knows better than men, and has wisdom
that men can never approach, uses a word that is very strong.

The emotional freight connected with this word causes even many
fundamental preachers to withdraw from its use. But since God uses
the word and the translators of the Authorized Version have used a
perfectly good English word, we shall attempt to explain it in its
context free of the emotional freight so often connected with its
use.

The grammatical form of the word indicates that it takes effort to
carry out the conditions of this promise. The Hebrew word "to beat"
in this verse is a causal verb that emphasizes that a dad must bring
himself to do it. This hearkens back to what was said earlier about
having to force ourselves to do what does not come naturally in this
area of child correction. Not only must we cause ourselves to "beat
our child" but the usage of this particular word indicates that God
has designed corporal punishment so that it would cause pain. The
word "beat" that is used here is the very same word used in
Deuteronomy 25:2,3. In this Deuteronomy passage, it is very clear
that the word is used in connection with a physical beating where
pain is being inflicted by the beating as a means of punishment
ordered by a judge in Israel. By this Scriptural illustration we are
absolutely compelled to realize that this word is used in the sense
of physical pain being caused by corporal punishment, and, further,
that this is God's very objective!

If we return to our passage in Proverbs 23:13, 14, we see by the
context that God is also talking about the theme of physical
beating, not a beating with words, withdrawal of privilege, or
anything else short of physical chastisement. Some folks have a real
problem in thinking of the Lord planning to have a child experience
pain during an incident of correction. Those who would have a
problem in this area should quickly review Hebrews 12:6-11. There
the writer to the Hebrews develops the point that painful
chastisement at the hand of God is a very clear mark of being a
child of God. Moreover, verse eight indicates that anyone without
this chastisement, "whereof all are partakers," is in reality not a
son of God at all and therefore not an object of His filial love.

The world and humanistically-trained minds are repelled in horror at
the thought of a God who would deliberately order painful correction
of a child and use words as strong as "beat" in ordering parents to
carry out that correction. The Scriptures make it abundantly clear
that such painful correction is the most loving, wise, and
responsible procedure that a Godly parent can follow in developing
obedience and character in his child. Therefore, when you hear
someone object, "But that will hurt my child," you can
answer, "Precisely, that is God's goal, that the child be hurt with
the pain of the spanking during a session of correction."

What is the reason for the pain? It delivers, in some mysterious
way, the heart of that child from its rebellion, stubbornness, and
willfulness. Any regenerate person can see abundant testimony to how
this mysterious process works by looking at his or her own life's
experience in walking with his Saviour. God reproves His children
many times in very painful ways to deliver their hearts of the same
ungodly characteristics.

Ideally, a child should know the reason that he is being dealt with
in this way. In other words, he should know the sin or the rule he
has broken. He should especially know how he has offended God and
broken His moral law and then be called to repentance before God and
others who are affected by his sin. When this is done the session of
correction has its maximum benefit in the life of the
child. "Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child, but the rod of
correction shall drive it far from him" (Proverbs 22:15).
Mysterious? Yes, but mysterious as it is, the promise is bound in
this Scripture that Godly and consistent application of the rod of
correction will deliver the foolish rebellion and stubborn
willfulness from the heart of a child when his parents have
disciplined themselves enough to carry it out.

Correction not a one-time affair

Another condition of the promise Solomon develops in this passage is
that correction must be consistent and repetitive. The verb
for "beat" that he uses in this verse is not a one-time action. The
verb calls for ongoing activity of beating. Therefore a parent may
not reasonably expect that one or two times of Biblically beating
the child is going to deliver that child once and for all of the
rebellious heart with which he was born. However in the same
breath, we must emphasize that Godly parents who insist on complete
obedience and back up their demands with immediate application of
the rod discover to their joy that the need for the rod diminishes
as the child recognizes the parents' determination to apply it when
necessary.

Many parents have said to me when being challenged about their lack
of consistency in application of the rod of correction, "I have
tried that; it doesn't work." Let us think about that response for a
moment. Can it really be true that a child correction procedure that
is ordered directly in the Scriptures for Godly parents will work in
some cases and not in others? The earnest believer would be repelled
in horror and say, "Of course not!" Then if the fault does not lie
in the Lord or His Word, where does the fault lie if a child is
manifesting the rebellion bound in his naturally depraved heart? I
believe the answer lies with the father primarily and with parents
collectively.

Whenever I have encountered such an excuse on the part of a parent,
I immediately begin to ask specific questions about their child
correction procedures. In each case I have examined, I have
discovered that the parent who claims that they have tried the rod
of correction God's way, in reality hasn't done so at all. Some have
given their child the rod of correction with such a lack of
determination and vigor that their blows could not be expected to
seriously dampen the enthusiastic rebellion of the child. Other
parents have tried the application of the rod at widely divergent
intervals of time and have been seriously negligent in the area of
consistency. Further questioning always has revealed that the
correction was not done with God's methods in mind at all. In fact,
when a child is disciplined in this inconsistent way, he seems to
become a worse child of the devil than he was before. In effect, as
he is given half-hearted strokes of the rod by a parent who is not
fully determined in his heart to break the child's will for the
glory of God, that child in his heart reasons, "I can take this. My
parent has not succeeded in breaking my will and I have won."

To carry out the spirit of this passage, a parent must immediately
carry out correction with the rod as soon as practical after the
offense has occurred. This is fully in keeping with Ecclesiastes
8:11--"Because sentence against an evil work is not executed
speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in
them to do evil." God clearly states that the further correction is
removed from the actual offense in terms of relative time, the less
effective that correction will be. What an instructive lesson for
our judicial system! How corrective can any method of punishment be
when it is weeks, months, and even years after the actual offense?
Therefore, a parent should apply the rod as quickly as is possible
following the breaking of a rule.

For this reason, a mother who is alone with her children during the
day is wise to use her delegated authority from her husband to
speedily execute the correction against the erring child rather than
wait the minutes or even the hours that it may take for dad to
arrive home. When one keeps in mind that the greater the time
difference between the offense and the correction the less effect
will be gained from the correction, it is obviously wise to follow
God's method and apply the correction immediately after the offense.

Many parents in using the rod of correction on their child do so
with an obvious lack of vigor and often stop short of the child's
will being completely broken. Manifestation of this error is
illustrated in countless homes as a child gets up from his session
of correction still spouting rebellious words and giving willful
looks at his discouraged parent. The parent has no one to blame but
himself for this problem since he did not completely break the will
of the child during the session of correction. A child who is still
willing to resist the authority of his parent after having received
the rod of correction is still in need of more of that same rod.

Both my wife and I have often remarked that it is good that one of
our children was not our firstborn. This particular child who came
along later in our family was extremely willful and rebellious
toward our authority and would often require sessions of correction
lasting from one to two hours in length before the will would
finally be broken! Had this child been our first, we may well have
been tempted to despair of the grace of God.

Do not be discouraged, dear parent, when it appears that your Godly
efforts to chastise your child with the rod of correction meet with
total resistance towards your authority. This simply means that you
have started on the right course and you must now pursue your
objective of a broken will with great vigor until your mission is
finally accomplished. This may require a great deal of self-
discipline on your part but you can do it, since God requires you to
do so.

God's tool for correction

What is the tool of the condition in this passage? Solomon explains
that it is "the rod." I have spent a great deal of time researching
just exactly what a "rod" is and the Scriptural usage thereof and
have determined that a "rod" is simply a rod! It is variously
defined as a rod, a staff, a scepter, or a wand. In short, a rod is
an instrument strong enough to be used in a session of correction so
that it will not be broken. It also lends itself to inflicting pain
on the posterior of the child, but it is not so constructed as to
break bones or tear flesh! In other words, the rod is not a pencil,
or a ruler, or a pillow. It is far more severe than any of these
objects. Nor is the rod a rubber hose or a length of barbed wire! A
rod in most cases is probably a wooden paddle used for spanking the
buttock. In my own family, we use a large hardwood paddle for this
purpose. If you were to ask any of my children, "Where is the rod of
correction in your house?" They would immediately know of what you
are speaking and each child who is old enough to do so would be able
to take you down to the master bedroom where the "family rod" is
kept in a corner.

Since the Lord emphasizes the use of this inanimate object
called "the rod" it is not wise for a parent to ordinarily use any
other tool for correction.

Although a hand may have to be used in an emergency session of
correction, this is not what the Lord had in mind. Your hand cannot
do an effective job of correcting since you will inflict about as
much pain on your hand as you will on the child's buttock. Your hand
should represent love and affection, not correction. The Lord
prefers this inanimate object called the rod.

If a parent obeys ... then what?

The promise specified to an obedient parent is "he shall not die." A
casual reader of this passage may be tempted to think Solomon is
speaking about the rod of correction in a session of discipline and
this session of discipline will cause sufficient crying on the part
of the child that it may sound as if he is going to die but he
really will not. Although many believe this to be true, this is a
false and erroneous interpretation of this passage. If this were
true and Solomon is making a reference to physical death in this
phrase, "He shall not die," then a parent could keep his child alive
forever by giving him a daily beating! That is ludicrous you may
say, and I agree. This passage is not a reference to physical death
but is a very clear reference to spiritual life and death.

II. THE SECOND DIRECTIVE: THE PROCEDURE AND PRODUCT OF CORRECTION

A. The procedure of correction

The second directive found in this passage is also in two parts.
They are: the procedure and the product of correction. The first
part or the procedure of correction is highlighted by "Thou shalt
beat him with the rod." The one who does the beating, in other
words, is the one who saves this child in a spiritual sense! Here is
a very mysterious promise to a parent in the Scriptures, that
consistent, Godly, disciplined correction of the child with the rod
of correction will in some mysterious sense be instrumental in that
child's spiritual salvation from sin and death.

To ignore this very clear reference to the child's salvation being
related to his being disciplined is to ignore the very clear
teaching of this passage of the Word of God. A parent must recognize
and see clearly that Biblically beating his child sensitizes that
child not only to the fact of sin but also to its ugliness. In
addition, the child will see that the penalty must always be paid
when we sin. The beating spoken of in this passage is done often and
consistently so that the child recognizes he will always pay a price
that he does not want to pay for rebellion against his authority.
Such a child who is Biblically trained and corrected will be far
more likely to respond to the spiritual concepts of sin and
salvation when he reaches the age of understanding. A vital
principle for a parent to grasp in this business of child correction
is that our children will leave our house to obey their heavenly
Father in exactly the same way as they have obeyed their earthly
father.

If a child has been accustomed to disobeying his earthly father and
was rarely corrected or corrected inconsistently at best, that child
will not likely be trained to expect the hand of God to be active in
his life in chastening and drawing him to repentance for his
personal sin. Therefore, he will not be a very likely candidate for
responding to the spiritual concepts of sin and salvation.
Obviously, by the grace of God, there are exceptions to this general
rule. By the mercy of God, the Lord has often reached down and saved
a rebellious youngster who has left the home of parents who never
corrected him in a Godly fashion. It must be remembered that he was
saved by an all-wise, merciful, and loving heavenly Father who
regenerated his heart even though his earthly parents were
unfaithful in the area of correction.

To put it another way, the one who does not Biblically beat his
child, in a loving and consistent way, in a very real sense
predisposes that child for hell and even has a direct part in
sending him there! This truth is precisely why the Lord says
you "hate your child" if you do not chasten him betimes (Proverbs
13:24). Interestingly, the world believes a parents hates his child
if he does use the rod on him!

When your child does wrong and in rebellion breaks rules that you
have very clearly laid out, you should not nag him and incessantly
scold him or put on your mad voice and use any threatening words.
Rather, you should use a rod that has already been designated for
that purpose and in Biblical love consistently beat him that his
will might be broken and that repentance toward you and toward God
be achieved.

Again, these concepts cause horrible thoughts and evoke dramatic
reaction in those not accustomed to principles of God. Such folks
may say at the top of their lungs, "That is child abuse"! My
response to their cries of horror is that their methods of
correction in never using the rod and never trying to bring a child
to repentance for his personal sin is a horrible, hateful, and
unloving method of correction. They are the ones who really are the
child abusers, the parents who neglect and leave their child to his
own devices. These are the parents who allow their children to
express their natural depravity and become increasingly wicked and
more sophisticated in their rebellion toward their authority and
toward God in their advancing age.

No, God's method is best, no matter what the wisdom of this world
presents as an alternative. For a child to be confronted with his
sinnand to be Biblically corrected and to be led to repentance and
gaining of forgiveness for his sin is far better than all the talk,
discussion, and any other substitute for Godly correction that men
can theorize. In my view, any method of child correction that is
presented as a substitute for God's method is child abuse.

But these opponents of God's methods may object, "What you are
suggesting will hurt the child and may even bruise him!" My response
would be, "That is correct." A child may in fact be bruised by a
session of difficult correction. In fact, the Lord has already
anticipated this objection and has discussed it briefly in the
Scriptures. "The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so do
stripes the inward parts of the belly" (Proverbs 20:30). One may
say, "That is talking about a child who has bruised himself in an
accident at play."

No, the latter part of the verse explains that God is giving this
passage in the context of physical chastening for correction. God
makes the point that if a child is bruised during one of these
sessions of correction that a parent should not despair but realize
that the blueness of that wound cleanses away the evil heart of
rebellion and willful stubbornness that reside in that depraved
little body. I must hasten to add that no parent should deliberately
seek to bruise his child nor should that be the goal of Biblical
correction. I simply must agree with the Lord and declare that if a
bruise does occur, God knows about it and will use it to cleanse the
guilty heart of that erring child.

Bitter medicine

But the humanist or disobedient parent who does not want to use
God's method may still object and say, "I just cannot bring myself
to do such a horrible thing to my child." Let me ask this question.
If your child was dying of a deadly disease and a very bitter,
extremely distasteful medicine was discovered that could cure your
child of the deadly disease, would you not give him that medicine?
In fact, would you not get help to hold the child to even force the
medicine down his throat in order that he might be saved? Most
thinking menwould most readily admit that they would indeed do so
even though the medicine was horribly bitter and distasteful to the
child. So it is in this matter of God's method of child correction.
It is very distasteful and painful for the child involved and since
this is true it has become bitter and distasteful to disobedient
parents as well, but it is absolutely vital for that child's
character training and ultimate spiritual salvation.

When to begin?

When should a parent start using the rod of correction on a child
that the Lord has brought into the family? There is no clear and
specific answer to this very good question. However, it is my
opinion that the correction of children should start as soon as the
need for that correction is made manifest. Every discerning parent
who has been blessed with a little child in his home realizes that
his initial impression of the sweetness and the innocence of the
child is in reality an illusion. A child very quickly demonstrates
his fallen, depraved nature and reveals himself to be a selfish
little beast in manifold ways. As soon as the child begins to
express his own self-will (and this occurs early in life) that child
needs to receive correction. My wife and I have a general goal of
making sure that each of our children has his will broken by the
time he reaches the age of one year. To do this, a child must
receive correction when he is a small infant. Every parent
recognizes that this self-will begins early as he has witnessed his
child stiffen his back and boldly demonstrate his rebellion and self-
will even though he has been fed, diapered, and cared for in every
other physical way.

On what occasions should a child be corrected? Whenever a child
directly disobeys authority or shows disrespect and rebellion toward
authority, that child should receive correction. Lesser infractions
of course would receive lesser forms of correction with the rod
being reserved for the more serious infractions.

B. The product of correction

Solomon last turns to the product of Godly correction: "shalt
deliver his soul from hell." The disciplined consistent habit of
Godly correction with the rod figuratively snatches that child's
soul from a real hell. The word for hell in this passage is the
word "sheol." Because of the context, we must recognize that Solomon
is not only talking about sheol in terms of being the realm of the
dead but rather is talking about the lower regions of sheol wherein
reside the souls of the wicked dead who have died in their sins and
in an unbelieving state. Solomon, in other words, makes a direct tie
between Godly correction with the rod and spiritual salvation of the
soul of the child.

This connection is made in a very startling illustration from the
Old Testament Scriptures.

In 1 Samuel 1:12 we are introduced to an Old Testament believer who
was in God's work. This man's name was Eli, who was a priest of the
living God.

As if to reveal Samuel and Eli in startling contrast to one another,
the Spirit of God introduces us to the family of Eli following the
wonderful account of Hannah conceiving the child Samuel after being
infertile. Hannah must have used the rod of correction on little
Samuel since he is later demonstrated in the Scripture as being a
totally different kind of child than were the children of Eli. We
are told that "the sons of Eli were sons of Belial; they knew not
the Lord" (1 Samuel 2:12). These two boys, Hophni and Phineas, were
unsaved, unregenerate young men who despite the wickedness of their
hearts and their unregenerate natures were made to be priests of the
Lord. This unhappy and horrible testimony was an abomination to God.
He goes on to say in 1 Samuel 3:13, "For I have told him that I will
judge his house forever for the iniquity which he knoweth; because
his sons made themselves vile and he restrained them not." In short,
Eli was judged forever by the Lord because he did not restrain the
boys from their wickedness and evil-doing even though he knew they
were doing wrong and violating God's law.

Eli would be in close company with many men today, for even though
they know their boys or their girls are doing wrong, they refuse to
obey God in their own lives. They will not institutes the Godly,
disciplined, consistent use of the rod of correction to turn the
children around.

Why did not Eli follow through with what he knew he should to
restrain his boys? The answer is found in 1 Samuel 2:29, "Wherefore
kick ye at my sacrifice or at mine offering, which I have commanded
in my habitation; and honorest thy sons above me to make yourselves
fat with the chiefest of all the offerings of Israel my people." Eli
did not want to lose the riches, honor, and prestige of the
priesthood in order to vindicate God's honor. He was well satisfied
with the tremendous wealth and benefits of the priest's office and
he did not want to "rock the boat." He lived a very selfish and self-
centered life rather than obey the Lord. Because he did not want to
jeopardize his or his sons' positions in the priesthood, he refused
to do what he knew he should in restraining their vile, sinful habit
patterns. Again, Eli was like many men on the contemporary scene
who; because they do not want to "upset the apple cart of their
lives," refuse to restrain their children in order to please God.

The stakes are high

Every father and mother must recognize this all-important fact, that
the very soul of their child is at stake in this matter of Godly
correction with the rod. The immortal, undying portion of that child
is in very real jeopardy if his will is not broken and he is not
trained to respond to God's authority in his life.

A parent must not just correct for present results. If this were
true we could understand more clearly why so many parents allow
their children to get by uncorrected at present only to reap sad
results later on. NO, a parent must correct his children not only
for present results but for results twenty years from now and for an
eternity!

I am often reminded of a conversation I had with a neighbor of mine
who related a very personal incident from his life with regard to
the correction of his children. He mentioned to me on one occasion
that he thought that he was much too hard on his son and was even
accused of being too harsh with the boy by other friends and
associates. However, when the boy became an adult man he became
active in the Lord's work and even chose a full-time position in
Christian service. On one occasion the young man returned to his
father and with tears streaming down his cheeks related to his
father how thankful he was that his dad cared enough for him and his
spiritual welfare that he absolutely insisted that the child do
right. He was also thankful that he backed it up with the consistent
and Godly use of the rod of correction even though it was extremely
unpleasant and distasteful at the time to his flesh. Your children
will also come back and thank you twenty years from now for making
them do right if you in fact do so at this moment in their lives.

Any parent who allows the correction of his children to be regulated
on the basis of that parent's feelings and emotions will find that
he only disciplines his children on a infrequent basis. This type of
correction will be administered only when a parent is extremely
irritated or is upset by something rather obvious in the child's
rebellion. Parents cannot afford to base their correction on
feelings or on avoiding unpleasantness but must purpose in their
hearts to use Godly, consistent, loving correction with the rod even
though they don't feel like it!

What do I do now?

If you are like many parents, you have not been correcting your
children God's way. If after you have read this material and you
have allowed the Spirit of God to speak to your heart about your
sinful failure with regard to your child's welfare in this area, you
must not simply throw yourself into a new program of child
correction. You must first ask God to forgive you for your sin and
your failure. Next, ask your child to forgive you for failing him as
a parent in not requiring that he be made to do right in all
situations. Only after these very important steps are taken may you
start with Godly correction and expect your child to respond to you
in a positive way.

You must be prepared however, for a very startling reaction to your
Godly attempts to do right by your children in this area of
correction. If you purpose in your heart to be consistent in this
matter, you will soon discover as countless other Godly parents have
discovered that you must endure persecution, misunderstanding, and
negative reaction from others around you. Some of your friends,
perhaps your parents, neighbors, and even other Christians will not
agree that you should carry through with this Godly discipline. Be
prepared for this reaction, for unless you are in very unusual
circumstances, it is most likely to occur.

Parents must use wisdom

Christian parents must be very wise today in how they carry out
Godly correction. I would encourage you to be vigorous and
consistent in the application of these procedures in the privacy of
your home. I cannot completely tell you the grief I have shared with
so many parents who have telephoned me and asked me in tears to
somehow help their daughter. They have asked to get their daughter
back from the welfare authorities or other bureaucrats. You see,
many parents who have educated their child with the rod of
correction in order to make them do right have found out in shocked
disbelief that even the authorities of our local and state
governments are against the implementation of this Godly method of
training a child. Countless parents could give you vivid testimony
of how various authorities have come to their door and have taken
away their children because the parents were observed correcting
their child with the rod of correction as God ordered them to do.
You must correct your child in the privacy of your home so that the
fruit of your training will be so indelibly fixed on the child's
heart that you will not have to use the rod of correction in a
public setting and expose your family to this very real risk in
today's permissive lawless society.

Another aspect of this is that if you carry through with Godly
correction in the privacy of your home your child will not embarrass
you in public. Many are the parents who are embarrassed in a church
service or in a public setting by their child's unruly behavior
simply because they have not enforced rules of obedience on that
child in the home.

Grandparents should also recognize one possible complication in
their lives with regard to this issue of child correction. The
Scripture states that the crown of older men are children's children
(Proverbs 17:6). That being the case, a grandparent is tempted not
to follow through with the rod of correction being used for his
grandchild. However a Godly grandparent will recognize the necessity
of doing so as well as the Godly reason for doing so. The minority
is right.

We must recognize that those people who disagree with what God
commands parents to do in this passage are in a definite majority in
our society. Perhaps as you read this material, you yourself
disagree with what has been expressed. If you do disagree, you may
be comforted to know that you are definitely in the majority of
opinion. However, you are also very wrong.

Ten spies and all of Israel disagreed with the minority report
given by Joshua and Caleb. But God vindicated Joshua and Caleb and
punished the majority who chose to disobey (Numbers 13-14).

Even though you may think these methods of correction that God has
ordered parents to carry out are bestial, abusive, and unloving, you
are the one who is bestial, abusive, and unloving if you don't obey
God in this matter. Moreover, if you do not obey God your child
likely will not be saved unless the Lord supernaturally in His mercy
does so despite your disobedience.

Today there is at least one European country that has already
outlawed what God has clearly commanded in this area of child
training. Sweden has made it illegal for a parent to use the rod of
correction on his child. If Sweden does carry through and enforce
this ungodly and morally unlawful legislation, I can guarantee that
the next generation in that land will likely be a nation of
perverts. This will be true because of the selfish, rebellious, self-
centered, irresponsible young people such sinful and wicked
legislation will promote.

No matter what men or governments do or do not do with regard to
this issue of child correction, God's people by God's grace must
follow through and do it simply because God commands it and they
must obey to please Him.

 
September 25, 2006, 10:07 am CDT

09/21 Cult Confrontations

Quote From: goldndog

I'm writing to warn everyone about a "home for wayward girls" in Winona Lake, Indiana, called Hephzibah House, run by a minister named Ronald E Williams.
I am greatly concerned that severe child abuse may be taking place at Hephzibah House, after reading one of Williams' online sermons on childrearing, the "The Correction and Salvation of Children".
In this tract Williams advocates physical correction of children, using a "rod", and advises parents that beatings of up to two hours duration might be necessary in some cases to "break a child's will" .

He also advises the use of the rod on small infants, saying,
"When should a parent start using the rod of correction on a child that the Lord has brought into the family? There is no clear and specific answer to this very good question. However, it is my opinion that the correction of children should start as soon as the need for that correction is made manifest. Every discerning parent who has been blessed with a little child in his home realizes that his initial impression of the sweetness and the innocence of the child is in reality an illusion. A child very quickly demonstrates his fallen, depraved nature and reveals himself to be a selfish little beast in manifold ways. As soon as the child begins to express his own self-will (and this occurs early in life) that child needs to receive correction. My wife and I have a general goal of making sure that each of our children has his will broken by the time he reaches the age of one year. ***** To do this, a child must receive correction when he is a small infant.*****Every parent recognizes that this self-will begins early as he has witnessed his child stiffen his back and boldly demonstrate his rebellion and self-will even though he has been fed, diapered, and cared for in every other physical way."

I truly believe that this guy is DANGEROUS! And, he runs a lockdown facility for girls. It seems he also has a lot of influence around Winona Lake -- apparently he hasn't been investigated in years, despite several allegations of abuse. 

Dr. Phil, or ANYONE, I hope you will read this and investigate this guy.

Here is the URL for his tract, it's become a bit hard to find online, though he sells it on his website:
http://www.gotothebible.com/HTML/correctionchildren.html

Here is the URL to Hephzibah House:
http://www.hephzibahhouse.org/

(If you click on Audio-Visual store link on this site you can buy more of his tracts on VHS format for $10 a pop, to watch on your TV (despite the fact that Williams himself condemns TV ownership as a grave sin)

And -- hold onto your lunch -- here is Williams' childrearing tract in its entirety:

The Correction and Salvation of Children
By Ronald E. Williams


Believers Baptist Church, 508 School St., Winona Lake, IN 46590
(219) 269-2376

TWO DIRECTIVES OF SOLOMON FOR THE CORRECTION AND SALVATION OF
CHILDREN

"Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him
with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod,
and shalt deliver his soul from hell." Proverbs 23:13,14

THE FIRST DIRECTIVE: The perception of my duty and the promise
involved if I carry out my duty

A. The perception of my duty

"Withhold not correction from the child."

Through a negative admonition, "withhold not," Solomon is
encouraging us to perceive what our duty is with regard to our
child. One might ask, Why is it necessary to be told what our duty
is? Because we would naturally "withhold" instead of obeying. The
Scripture indicates in Proverbs 13:24, "He that spareth his rod,
hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes." Many
parents today are in a position where they Biblically hate their
children because they are not acting against their natural feelings
and disciplining themselves towards the Godly habit-pattern of
consistent correction. In other words, it takes work, wisdom, self
discipline, and

Godliness to correct children the way the Lord wants.

Fight your feelings

The concept of having to be told what to do in order that we can
combat our natural feelings is illustrated in other areas of our
lives. The Lord Jesus, for example, taught in Matthew 5:28 that it
is wrong for a man to look lustfully upon a woman, implicitly
telling us to not do that. One could ask, Why does He teach such a
thing? Because men naturally look upon women in a lustful way. In
fact, any man who claims that he has never had a problem in this
area is either a liar or he is dead! Just as the Scripture
indicates "the eyes of man are never satisfied" (Proverbs 27:20).
Therefore, the Lord, recognizing our weakness, has admonished men
not to look lustfully at women. Men must not operate on the basis of
their natural inclinations, but on the basis of what is right,
controlling their feelings and the flesh in the process.

Another example would be in the area of a man loving his wife. The
Apostle Paul in Ephesians 5:25 says, "Husbands, love your wives even
as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for it." Why did
the Spirit of God believe it necessary to instruct a man through the
Apostle Paul to love his wife as Christ loved the church? Because a
man would not naturally do this. A man is naturally in love with
himself even as that same chapter indicates in 5:29: "For no man
ever yet hateth his own flesh but nourisheth and cherisheth it even
as the Lord the church." A man left to his own inclinations and
desires will love himself supremely above all others. A Christian,
however, who is obedient to the Spirit of God and to the Word of
God, will love his wife and not submit to the natural inclination to
love himself first; even as the Lord Jesus demonstrated through His
supreme example in His love for the church. Therefore, when the Lord
gives a negative admonition to parents to "withhold not," it is in
keeping with this Biblical principle of instructing parents to obey
where they will have to overcome their natural inclinations, control
their emotions and do what is right even when they do not feel like.

Whose job?

Who is to perceive this duty that Solomon outlines? The Hebrew
language indicates in this passage through a second person masculine
singular suffix that Solomon is probably addressing a man. The
context of course, would indicate that the father of the household
is the subject of Solomon's admonition. Solomon, in doing this, is
underscoring and agreeing with the rest of Scripture when it teaches
that child-training and education is the primary responsibility of
the father of that child. The primary responsibility for this vital
task is not delegated by God to the mother, Sunday School teacher,
pastor, day school teacher, grandparents, or any other person, but
is the primary responsibility of the father. Obviously, these other
individuals are an invaluable help to the father, especially his
wife, but they are helpers only. A father will stand before the
judgment seat of Christ and give an account for the spiritual,
emotional, and physical welfare and training of his wife and
children. It therefore behooves a father to be extremely judicious
and cautious in whom he selects to be his helpers in the vital task
of training and educating his child. Why?

So as not to compromise the Biblical standard he must inculcate in
his children.

This same principle is especially underscored in Deuteronomy 6:7--
"And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt
talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest
by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up."
Moses in that Old Testament passage uses a similar ending or suffix
on the words in that verse, again indicating that he is addressing
the heads of Hebrew households, or more simply, the fathers of each
family. Moses, as a spokesman, for the Lord, indicated that God
expects the father in the home to diligently train the children in
Godliness and in God's standards.

This concept is not exclusively an Old Testament concept, but is
highlighted again in the New Testament. Ephesians 6:4 states: "And
ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath, but bring them up in
the nurture and admonition of the Lord." The Apostle Paul directly
addresses fathers in this verse and lays the responsibility for
nurture and admonition squarely on their shoulders. So to answer the
question, "Who is to perceive this duty of correction," one must
simply answer, it is the responsibility of the father to perceive
this duty.

What job needs to be done?

Next we need to ask, what is the duty perceived by the father?
Solomon indicates that the duty to be perceived by the father is
something he calls "correction." Correction in the Bible has two
basic ideas. The first idea is training through oral instruction.
This is a vital part of child- training and cannot be neglected lest
the child not receive a balanced instruction from his father. The
Scripture indicates that it is the rod and reproof that gives
wisdom, not the rod alone (Proverbs 29:15). The other aspect of this
word "correction" is training through physical scourging or
chastening. Both concepts are involved.

Who is the object of our attention?

With whom is the duty of correction concerned? This passage
indicates that "the child" is the object of concern with regard to
Godly correction. Many young people, in learning about the Biblical
standard of correction, might well ask, who is a child and who is
not? The Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Old Testament
Hebrew Scriptures) uses the word meaning a minor child to translate
this word. One could well ask, how old a child should receive
physical correction? Or, to put it another way, when is a child not
a child?

It is my opinion that the parents of that youngster should decide
when a child is no longer a child and when he should no longer
receive the correction of which Solomon speaks in this passage.
Admittedly, this is not always an easy decision inasmuch as an older
child may do unlawful things that the parent believes should be
corrected by the rod. I would suggest three simple thoughts as
possible helps in determining when a child is no longer a child in
need of physical correction. First, when that child starts paying
his own bills from his own resources he has probably reached the
level of responsibility wherein he will respond better to the
reproofs of life given him by the Lord than he will by the rod of
correction given him by his earthly father. Second, when that child
starts his own household, whether it be as a single adult or as a
married adult, he is quite obviously out of the realm of being
physically corrected. Third, it is my suggestion that a child in
your home be corrected according to his emotional age rather than
his physical age.

In my limited experience, I have often encountered a child who
physically has attained an age many parents would view as being too
old to receive physical correction. However, that same child may be
committing extremely immature and irresponsible acts in his life
that could well benefit from the rod of correction. With these
things in mind, you as a parent can be helped in determining when
physical correction with the rod should be used and when it should
not. These are not guidelines that should be chiseled in stone but
might prove helpful.

One thing is certain, correction with the rod should and must start
very early. In fact, correction with the rod should start much
earlier than our contemporary godless and irresponsible society
believes is normative. The Scripture says, "Chasten thy son while
there is hope and let not thy soul spare for his crying" (Proverbs
19:1Cool. In other words, there is a time when there is real hope that
a child can be corrected and have his will broken by the parent who
uses the rod of correction, and there is a time when that hope
diminishes by virtue of the child's advancing age.

In my position as the director of a rehabilitation ministry for
troubled teenage girls, I receive phone calls daily from desperate
parents all across the United States. They have children for whom
all hope seems to be gone because they did not start the use of the
rod of correction while there was hope as the Scriptures mandated. I
do not mean to discourage parents with older teenagers, who have
suddenly been exposed to God's inspired instructions in this matter.
As long as you have a child under your authority and your home where
you can directly supervise and correct him, there still is hope that
you may turn that child from his wicked ways and break his will. You
may still teach him to submit to authority in his life.

A good illustration of this hope is found in the case of a mother
who called me from a distant state about her troubled teenage
daughter. This teenager had gotten into such continual mischief and
wickedness that the desperate mother went to the local hardware
store and purchased a lock and chain with which to lock the girl to
her body. This unorthodox measure kept the girl in her home at night
but fell far short of Scriptural methodology in changing the heart!
I explained to the mother that we did not have room to receive the
girl at the time because our beds were filled. However, I mentioned
that I could give her a possible answer for her predicament. I also
said, "But I doubt that you will follow through." The mother,
hearing that there might be a solution to her crisis, desperately
implored, "Yes, I will take your counsel. What is your solution?" I
then proceeded to explain that the mother should get a stick that
would not break and get after that daughter until the daughter asked
for peace in their relationship. The mother hesitated in silence for
a time on that long distance telephone call, and then seemingly made
a firm commitment before me and the Lord that she would do so. She
answered, "Alright, I will!" I then forgot about the mother and her
call inasmuch as we receive several calls like this daily.

Three weeks later, I received a phone call from this same mother. I
had forgotten who she was and was reminded of her identity only when
she reminded me of the lock and chain she had purchased to secure
her daughter. I remembered who she was at that point since that was
a unique method of restraining the girl. I asked, "Well, what has
happened since our last conversation?" The mother replied that she
had taken my advice to secure a large stick that would not break,
and to quote the mother, "I wore off her behind!" I chuckled at the
mother's response and thoroughly enjoyed the rest of the story. She
went on to explain that she was simply amazed and dumbfounded at her
daughter's change of heart following the severe thrashing that the
mother gave her. It seems that the daughter, for the first time in
sixteen years, chose to obey her mother when she realized that the
mother was unflinchingly determined to break the girl's will and to
settle for nothing less than complete obedience. The mother then
said, "And it has lasted for three weeks! But I think she needs it
again this week." This dramatic illustration of how one mother
solved the problem of breaking the will of her daughter points up
how God's methods really can and do work. But a parent must be fully
purposed and determined in his heart that he will obey God no matter
what the consequences.

B. The promise involved if I carry out my duty

The second part of the first directive is the promise involved if I
carry out my duty. "For if thou beatest him with the rod he shall
not die." The condition of the promise is found in the phrase, "if
thou beatest him with the rod." Who meets this condition? Again, the
original Hebrew gives us the clue. Another masculine suffix is used
here indicating that the father is probably the one who shoulders
the responsibility of meeting this condition. The specific action
involved in meeting the condition is summed up by Solomon in the
word "beat." To use this word in connection with child correction
conjures up in the listening mind all manner of horrible child abuse
through stories vividly displayed by our mass media and by liberal
thinking do-gooders. They decry almost any form of child correction
beyond praise and persuasive speech or possibly withdrawal of
privilege. God however, who knows better than men, and has wisdom
that men can never approach, uses a word that is very strong.

The emotional freight connected with this word causes even many
fundamental preachers to withdraw from its use. But since God uses
the word and the translators of the Authorized Version have used a
perfectly good English word, we shall attempt to explain it in its
context free of the emotional freight so often connected with its
use.

The grammatical form of the word indicates that it takes effort to
carry out the conditions of this promise. The Hebrew word "to beat"
in this verse is a causal verb that emphasizes that a dad must bring
himself to do it. This hearkens back to what was said earlier about
having to force ourselves to do what does not come naturally in this
area of child correction. Not only must we cause ourselves to "beat
our child" but the usage of this particular word indicates that God
has designed corporal punishment so that it would cause pain. The
word "beat" that is used here is the very same word used in
Deuteronomy 25:2,3. In this Deuteronomy passage, it is very clear
that the word is used in connection with a physical beating where
pain is being inflicted by the beating as a means of punishment
ordered by a judge in Israel. By this Scriptural illustration we are
absolutely compelled to realize that this word is used in the sense
of physical pain being caused by corporal punishment, and, further,
that this is God's very objective!

If we return to our passage in Proverbs 23:13, 14, we see by the
context that God is also talking about the theme of physical
beating, not a beating with words, withdrawal of privilege, or
anything else short of physical chastisement. Some folks have a real
problem in thinking of the Lord planning to have a child experience
pain during an incident of correction. Those who would have a
problem in this area should quickly review Hebrews 12:6-11. There
the writer to the Hebrews develops the point that painful
chastisement at the hand of God is a very clear mark of being a
child of God. Moreover, verse eight indicates that anyone without
this chastisement, "whereof all are partakers," is in reality not a
son of God at all and therefore not an object of His filial love.

The world and humanistically-trained minds are repelled in horror at
the thought of a God who would deliberately order painful correction
of a child and use words as strong as "beat" in ordering parents to
carry out that correction. The Scriptures make it abundantly clear
that such painful correction is the most loving, wise, and
responsible procedure that a Godly parent can follow in developing
obedience and character in his child. Therefore, when you hear
someone object, "But that will hurt my child," you can
answer, "Precisely, that is God's goal, that the child be hurt with
the pain of the spanking during a session of correction."

What is the reason for the pain? It delivers, in some mysterious
way, the heart of that child from its rebellion, stubbornness, and
willfulness. Any regenerate person can see abundant testimony to how
this mysterious process works by looking at his or her own life's
experience in walking with his Saviour. God reproves His children
many times in very painful ways to deliver their hearts of the same
ungodly characteristics.

Ideally, a child should know the reason that he is being dealt with
in this way. In other words, he should know the sin or the rule he
has broken. He should especially know how he has offended God and
broken His moral law and then be called to repentance before God and
others who are affected by his sin. When this is done the session of
correction has its maximum benefit in the life of the
child. "Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child, but the rod of
correction shall drive it far from him" (Proverbs 22:15).
Mysterious? Yes, but mysterious as it is, the promise is bound in
this Scripture that Godly and consistent application of the rod of
correction will deliver the foolish rebellion and stubborn
willfulness from the heart of a child when his parents have
disciplined themselves enough to carry it out.

Correction not a one-time affair

Another condition of the promise Solomon develops in this passage is
that correction must be consistent and repetitive. The verb
for "beat" that he uses in this verse is not a one-time action. The
verb calls for ongoing activity of beating. Therefore a parent may
not reasonably expect that one or two times of Biblically beating
the child is going to deliver that child once and for all of the
rebellious heart with which he was born. However in the same
breath, we must emphasize that Godly parents who insist on complete
obedience and back up their demands with immediate application of
the rod discover to their joy that the need for the rod diminishes
as the child recognizes the parents' determination to apply it when
necessary.

Many parents have said to me when being challenged about their lack
of consistency in application of the rod of correction, "I have
tried that; it doesn't work." Let us think about that response for a
moment. Can it really be true that a child correction procedure that
is ordered directly in the Scriptures for Godly parents will work in
some cases and not in others? The earnest believer would be repelled
in horror and say, "Of course not!" Then if the fault does not lie
in the Lord or His Word, where does the fault lie if a child is
manifesting the rebellion bound in his naturally depraved heart? I
believe the answer lies with the father primarily and with parents
collectively.

Whenever I have encountered such an excuse on the part of a parent,
I immediately begin to ask specific questions about their child
correction procedures. In each case I have examined, I have
discovered that the parent who claims that they have tried the rod
of correction God's way, in reality hasn't done so at all. Some have
given their child the rod of correction with such a lack of
determination and vigor that their blows could not be expected to
seriously dampen the enthusiastic rebellion of the child. Other
parents have tried the application of the rod at widely divergent
intervals of time and have been seriously negligent in the area of
consistency. Further questioning always has revealed that the
correction was not done with God's methods in mind at all. In fact,
when a child is disciplined in this inconsistent way, he seems to
become a worse child of the devil than he was before. In effect, as
he is given half-hearted strokes of the rod by a parent who is not
fully determined in his heart to break the child's will for the
glory of God, that child in his heart reasons, "I can take this. My
parent has not succeeded in breaking my will and I have won."

To carry out the spirit of this passage, a parent must immediately
carry out correction with the rod as soon as practical after the
offense has occurred. This is fully in keeping with Ecclesiastes
8:11--"Because sentence against an evil work is not executed
speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in
them to do evil." God clearly states that the further correction is
removed from the actual offense in terms of relative time, the less
effective that correction will be. What an instructive lesson for
our judicial system! How corrective can any method of punishment be
when it is weeks, months, and even years after the actual offense?
Therefore, a parent should apply the rod as quickly as is possible
following the breaking of a rule.

For this reason, a mother who is alone with her children during the
day is wise to use her delegated authority from her husband to
speedily execute the correction against the erring child rather than
wait the minutes or even the hours that it may take for dad to
arrive home. When one keeps in mind that the greater the time
difference between the offense and the correction the less effect
will be gained from the correction, it is obviously wise to follow
God's method and apply the correction immediately after the offense.

Many parents in using the rod of correction on their child do so
with an obvious lack of vigor and often stop short of the child's
will being completely broken. Manifestation of this error is
illustrated in countless homes as a child gets up from his session
of correction still spouting rebellious words and giving willful
looks at his discouraged parent. The parent has no one to blame but
himself for this problem since he did not completely break the will
of the child during the session of correction. A child who is still
willing to resist the authority of his parent after having received
the rod of correction is still in need of more of that same rod.

Both my wife and I have often remarked that it is good that one of
our children was not our firstborn. This particular child who came
along later in our family was extremely willful and rebellious
toward our authority and would often require sessions of correction
lasting from one to two hours in length before the will would
finally be broken! Had this child been our first, we may well have
been tempted to despair of the grace of God.

Do not be discouraged, dear parent, when it appears that your Godly
efforts to chastise your child with the rod of correction meet with
total resistance towards your authority. This simply means that you
have started on the right course and you must now pursue your
objective of a broken will with great vigor until your mission is
finally accomplished. This may require a great deal of self-
discipline on your part but you can do it, since God requires you to
do so.

God's tool for correction

What is the tool of the condition in this passage? Solomon explains
that it is "the rod." I have spent a great deal of time researching
just exactly what a "rod" is and the Scriptural usage thereof and
have determined that a "rod" is simply a rod! It is variously
defined as a rod, a staff, a scepter, or a wand. In short, a rod is
an instrument strong enough to be used in a session of correction so
that it will not be broken. It also lends itself to inflicting pain
on the posterior of the child, but it is not so constructed as to
break bones or tear flesh! In other words, the rod is not a pencil,
or a ruler, or a pillow. It is far more severe than any of these
objects. Nor is the rod a rubber hose or a length of barbed wire! A
rod in most cases is probably a wooden paddle used for spanking the
buttock. In my own family, we use a large hardwood paddle for this
purpose. If you were to ask any of my children, "Where is the rod of
correction in your house?" They would immediately know of what you
are speaking and each child who is old enough to do so would be able
to take you down to the master bedroom where the "family rod" is
kept in a corner.

Since the Lord emphasizes the use of this inanimate object
called "the rod" it is not wise for a parent to ordinarily use any
other tool for correction.

Although a hand may have to be used in an emergency session of
correction, this is not what the Lord had in mind. Your hand cannot
do an effective job of correcting since you will inflict about as
much pain on your hand as you will on the child's buttock. Your hand
should represent love and affection, not correction. The Lord
prefers this inanimate object called the rod.

If a parent obeys ... then what?

The promise specified to an obedient parent is "he shall not die." A
casual reader of this passage may be tempted to think Solomon is
speaking about the rod of correction in a session of discipline and
this session of discipline will cause sufficient crying on the part
of the child that it may sound as if he is going to die but he
really will not. Although many believe this to be true, this is a
false and erroneous interpretation of this passage. If this were
true and Solomon is making a reference to physical death in this
phrase, "He shall not die," then a parent could keep his child alive
forever by giving him a daily beating! That is ludicrous you may
say, and I agree. This passage is not a reference to physical death
but is a very clear reference to spiritual life and death.

II. THE SECOND DIRECTIVE: THE PROCEDURE AND PRODUCT OF CORRECTION

A. The procedure of correction

The second directive found in this passage is also in two parts.
They are: the procedure and the product of correction. The first
part or the procedure of correction is highlighted by "Thou shalt
beat him with the rod." The one who does the beating, in other
words, is the one who saves this child in a spiritual sense! Here is
a very mysterious promise to a parent in the Scriptures, that
consistent, Godly, disciplined correction of the child with the rod
of correction will in some mysterious sense be instrumental in that
child's spiritual salvation from sin and death.

To ignore this very clear reference to the child's salvation being
related to his being disciplined is to ignore the very clear
teaching of this passage of the Word of God. A parent must recognize
and see clearly that Biblically beating his child sensitizes that
child not only to the fact of sin but also to its ugliness. In
addition, the child will see that the penalty must always be paid
when we sin. The beating spoken of in this passage is done often and
consistently so that the child recognizes he will always pay a price
that he does not want to pay for rebellion against his authority.
Such a child who is Biblically trained and corrected will be far
more likely to respond to the spiritual concepts of sin and
salvation when he reaches the age of understanding. A vital
principle for a parent to grasp in this business of child correction
is that our children will leave our house to obey their heavenly
Father in exactly the same way as they have obeyed their earthly
father.

If a child has been accustomed to disobeying his earthly father and
was rarely corrected or corrected inconsistently at best, that child
will not likely be trained to expect the hand of God to be active in
his life in chastening and drawing him to repentance for his
personal sin. Therefore, he will not be a very likely candidate for
responding to the spiritual concepts of sin and salvation.
Obviously, by the grace of God, there are exceptions to this general
rule. By the mercy of God, the Lord has often reached down and saved
a rebellious youngster who has left the home of parents who never
corrected him in a Godly fashion. It must be remembered that he was
saved by an all-wise, merciful, and loving heavenly Father who
regenerated his heart even though his earthly parents were
unfaithful in the area of correction.

To put it another way, the one who does not Biblically beat his
child, in a loving and consistent way, in a very real sense
predisposes that child for hell and even has a direct part in
sending him there! This truth is precisely why the Lord says
you "hate your child" if you do not chasten him betimes (Proverbs
13:24). Interestingly, the world believes a parents hates his child
if he does use the rod on him!

When your child does wrong and in rebellion breaks rules that you
have very clearly laid out, you should not nag him and incessantly
scold him or put on your mad voice and use any threatening words.
Rather, you should use a rod that has already been designated for
that purpose and in Biblical love consistently beat him that his
will might be broken and that repentance toward you and toward God
be achieved.

Again, these concepts cause horrible thoughts and evoke dramatic
reaction in those not accustomed to principles of God. Such folks
may say at the top of their lungs, "That is child abuse"! My
response to their cries of horror is that their methods of
correction in never using the rod and never trying to bring a child
to repentance for his personal sin is a horrible, hateful, and
unloving method of correction. They are the ones who really are the
child abusers, the parents who neglect and leave their child to his
own devices. These are the parents who allow their children to
express their natural depravity and become increasingly wicked and
more sophisticated in their rebellion toward their authority and
toward God in their advancing age.

No, God's method is best, no matter what the wisdom of this world
presents as an alternative. For a child to be confronted with his
sinnand to be Biblically corrected and to be led to repentance and
gaining of forgiveness for his sin is far better than all the talk,
discussion, and any other substitute for Godly correction that men
can theorize. In my view, any method of child correction that is
presented as a substitute for God's method is child abuse.

But these opponents of God's methods may object, "What you are
suggesting will hurt the child and may even bruise him!" My response
would be, "That is correct." A child may in fact be bruised by a
session of difficult correction. In fact, the Lord has already
anticipated this objection and has discussed it briefly in the
Scriptures. "The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so do
stripes the inward parts of the belly" (Proverbs 20:30). One may
say, "That is talking about a child who has bruised himself in an
accident at play."

No, the latter part of the verse explains that God is giving this
passage in the context of physical chastening for correction. God
makes the point that if a child is bruised during one of these
sessions of correction that a parent should not despair but realize
that the blueness of that wound cleanses away the evil heart of
rebellion and willful stubbornness that reside in that depraved
little body. I must hasten to add that no parent should deliberately
seek to bruise his child nor should that be the goal of Biblical
correction. I simply must agree with the Lord and declare that if a
bruise does occur, God knows about it and will use it to cleanse the
guilty heart of that erring child.

Bitter medicine

But the humanist or disobedient parent who does not want to use
God's method may still object and say, "I just cannot bring myself
to do such a horrible thing to my child." Let me ask this question.
If your child was dying of a deadly disease and a very bitter,
extremely distasteful medicine was discovered that could cure your
child of the deadly disease, would you not give him that medicine?
In fact, would you not get help to hold the child to even force the
medicine down his throat in order that he might be saved? Most
thinking menwould most readily admit that they would indeed do so
even though the medicine was horribly bitter and distasteful to the
child. So it is in this matter of God's method of child correction.
It is very distasteful and painful for the child involved and since
this is true it has become bitter and distasteful to disobedient
parents as well, but it is absolutely vital for that child's
character training and ultimate spiritual salvation.

When to begin?

When should a parent start using the rod of correction on a child
that the Lord has brought into the family? There is no clear and
specific answer to this very good question. However, it is my
opinion that the correction of children should start as soon as the
need for that correction is made manifest. Every discerning parent
who has been blessed with a little child in his home realizes that
his initial impression of the sweetness and the innocence of the
child is in reality an illusion. A child very quickly demonstrates
his fallen, depraved nature and reveals himself to be a selfish
little beast in manifold ways. As soon as the child begins to
express his own self-will (and this occurs early in life) that child
needs to receive correction. My wife and I have a general goal of
making sure that each of our children has his will broken by the
time he reaches the age of one year. To do this, a child must
receive correction when he is a small infant. Every parent
recognizes that this self-will begins early as he has witnessed his
child stiffen his back and boldly demonstrate his rebellion and self-
will even though he has been fed, diapered, and cared for in every
other physical way.

On what occasions should a child be corrected? Whenever a child
directly disobeys authority or shows disrespect and rebellion toward
authority, that child should receive correction. Lesser infractions
of course would receive lesser forms of correction with the rod
being reserved for the more serious infractions.

B. The product of correction

Solomon last turns to the product of Godly correction: "shalt
deliver his soul from hell." The disciplined consistent habit of
Godly correction with the rod figuratively snatches that child's
soul from a real hell. The word for hell in this passage is the
word "sheol." Because of the context, we must recognize that Solomon
is not only talking about sheol in terms of being the realm of the
dead but rather is talking about the lower regions of sheol wherein
reside the souls of the wicked dead who have died in their sins and
in an unbelieving state. Solomon, in other words, makes a direct tie
between Godly correction with the rod and spiritual salvation of the
soul of the child.

This connection is made in a very startling illustration from the
Old Testament Scriptures.

In 1 Samuel 1:12 we are introduced to an Old Testament believer who
was in God's work. This man's name was Eli, who was a priest of the
living God.

As if to reveal Samuel and Eli in startling contrast to one another,
the Spirit of God introduces us to the family of Eli following the
wonderful account of Hannah conceiving the child Samuel after being
infertile. Hannah must have used the rod of correction on little
Samuel since he is later demonstrated in the Scripture as being a
totally different kind of child than were the children of Eli. We
are told that "the sons of Eli were sons of Belial; they knew not
the Lord" (1 Samuel 2:12). These two boys, Hophni and Phineas, were
unsaved, unregenerate young men who despite the wickedness of their
hearts and their unregenerate natures were made to be priests of the
Lord. This unhappy and horrible testimony was an abomination to God.
He goes on to say in 1 Samuel 3:13, "For I have told him that I will
judge his house forever for the iniquity which he knoweth; because
his sons made themselves vile and he restrained them not." In short,
Eli was judged forever by the Lord because he did not restrain the
boys from their wickedness and evil-doing even though he knew they
were doing wrong and violating God's law.

Eli would be in close company with many men today, for even though
they know their boys or their girls are doing wrong, they refuse to
obey God in their own lives. They will not institutes the Godly,
disciplined, consistent use of the rod of correction to turn the
children around.

Why did not Eli follow through with what he knew he should to
restrain his boys? The answer is found in 1 Samuel 2:29, "Wherefore
kick ye at my sacrifice or at mine offering, which I have commanded
in my habitation; and honorest thy sons above me to make yourselves
fat with the chiefest of all the offerings of Israel my people." Eli
did not want to lose the riches, honor, and prestige of the
priesthood in order to vindicate God's honor. He was well satisfied
with the tremendous wealth and benefits of the priest's office and
he did not want to "rock the boat." He lived a very selfish and self-
centered life rather than obey the Lord. Because he did not want to
jeopardize his or his sons' positions in the priesthood, he refused
to do what he knew he should in restraining their vile, sinful habit
patterns. Again, Eli was like many men on the contemporary scene
who; because they do not want to "upset the apple cart of their
lives," refuse to restrain their children in order to please God.

The stakes are high

Every father and mother must recognize this all-important fact, that
the very soul of their child is at stake in this matter of Godly
correction with the rod. The immortal, undying portion of that child
is in very real jeopardy if his will is not broken and he is not
trained to respond to God's authority in his life.

A parent must not just correct for present results. If this were
true we could understand more clearly why so many parents allow
their children to get by uncorrected at present only to reap sad
results later on. NO, a parent must correct his children not only
for present results but for results twenty years from now and for an
eternity!

I am often reminded of a conversation I had with a neighbor of mine
who related a very personal incident from his life with regard to
the correction of his children. He mentioned to me on one occasion
that he thought that he was much too hard on his son and was even
accused of being too harsh with the boy by other friends and
associates. However, when the boy became an adult man he became
active in the Lord's work and even chose a full-time position in
Christian service. On one occasion the young man returned to his
father and with tears streaming down his cheeks related to his
father how thankful he was that his dad cared enough for him and his
spiritual welfare that he absolutely insisted that the child do
right. He was also thankful that he backed it up with the consistent
and Godly use of the rod of correction even though it was extremely
unpleasant and distasteful at the time to his flesh. Your children
will also come back and thank you twenty years from now for making
them do right if you in fact do so at this moment in their lives.

Any parent who allows the correction of his children to be regulated
on the basis of that parent's feelings and emotions will find that
he only disciplines his children on a infrequent basis. This type of
correction will be administered only when a parent is extremely
irritated or is upset by something rather obvious in the child's
rebellion. Parents cannot afford to base their correction on
feelings or on avoiding unpleasantness but must purpose in their
hearts to use Godly, consistent, loving correction with the rod even
though they don't feel like it!

What do I do now?

If you are like many parents, you have not been correcting your
children God's way. If after you have read this material and you
have allowed the Spirit of God to speak to your heart about your
sinful failure with regard to your child's welfare in this area, you
must not simply throw yourself into a new program of child
correction. You must first ask God to forgive you for your sin and
your failure. Next, ask your child to forgive you for failing him as
a parent in not requiring that he be made to do right in all
situations. Only after these very important steps are taken may you
start with Godly correction and expect your child to respond to you
in a positive way.

You must be prepared however, for a very startling reaction to your
Godly attempts to do right by your children in this area of
correction. If you purpose in your heart to be consistent in this
matter, you will soon discover as countless other Godly parents have
discovered that you must endure persecution, misunderstanding, and
negative reaction from others around you. Some of your friends,
perhaps your parents, neighbors, and even other Christians will not
agree that you should carry through with this Godly discipline. Be
prepared for this reaction, for unless you are in very unusual
circumstances, it is most likely to occur.

Parents must use wisdom

Christian parents must be very wise today in how they carry out
Godly correction. I would encourage you to be vigorous and
consistent in the application of these procedures in the privacy of
your home. I cannot completely tell you the grief I have shared with
so many parents who have telephoned me and asked me in tears to
somehow help their daughter. They have asked to get their daughter
back from the welfare authorities or other bureaucrats. You see,
many parents who have educated their child with the rod of
correction in order to make them do right have found out in shocked
disbelief that even the authorities of our local and state
governments are against the implementation of this Godly method of
training a child. Countless parents could give you vivid testimony
of how various authorities have come to their door and have taken
away their children because the parents were observed correcting
their child with the rod of correction as God ordered them to do.
You must correct your child in the privacy of your home so that the
fruit of your training will be so indelibly fixed on the child's
heart that you will not have to use the rod of correction in a
public setting and expose your family to this very real risk in
today's permissive lawless society.

Another aspect of this is that if you carry through with Godly
correction in the privacy of your home your child will not embarrass
you in public. Many are the parents who are embarrassed in a church
service or in a public setting by their child's unruly behavior
simply because they have not enforced rules of obedience on that
child in the home.

Grandparents should also recognize one possible complication in
their lives with regard to this issue of child correction. The
Scripture states that the crown of older men are children's children
(Proverbs 17:6). That being the case, a grandparent is tempted not
to follow through with the rod of correction being used for his
grandchild. However a Godly grandparent will recognize the necessity
of doing so as well as the Godly reason for doing so. The minority
is right.

We must recognize that those people who disagree with what God
commands parents to do in this passage are in a definite majority in
our society. Perhaps as you read this material, you yourself
disagree with what has been expressed. If you do disagree, you may
be comforted to know that you are definitely in the majority of
opinion. However, you are also very wrong.

Ten spies and all of Israel disagreed with the minority report
given by Joshua and Caleb. But God vindicated Joshua and Caleb and
punished the majority who chose to disobey (Numbers 13-14).

Even though you may think these methods of correction that God has
ordered parents to carry out are bestial, abusive, and unloving, you
are the one who is bestial, abusive, and unloving if you don't obey
God in this matter. Moreover, if you do not obey God your child
likely will not be saved unless the Lord supernaturally in His mercy
does so despite your disobedience.

Today there is at least one European country that has already
outlawed what God has clearly commanded in this area of child
training. Sweden has made it illegal for a parent to use the rod of
correction on his child. If Sweden does carry through and enforce
this ungodly and morally unlawful legislation, I can guarantee that
the next generation in that land will likely be a nation of
perverts. This will be true because of the selfish, rebellious, self-
centered, irresponsible young people such sinful and wicked
legislation will promote.

No matter what men or governments do or do not do with regard to
this issue of child correction, God's people by God's grace must
follow through and do it simply because God commands it and they
must obey to please Him.

Every discerning parent who has been blessed with a little child in his home realizes that his initial impression of the sweetness and the innocence of the child is in reality an illusion. A child very quickly demonstrates his fallen, depraved nature and reveals himself to be a selfish little beast in manifold ways.

 

This guy has absolutely lost his mind. No child is "fallen or of depraved nature." There is nothing more pure on this Earth than a child. Anybody who believes this is a fool.

 

"Well, what has happened since our last conversation?" The mother replied that she
had taken my advice to secure a large stick that would not break, and to quote the mother, "I wore off her behind!" I chuckled at the mother's response and thoroughly enjoyed the rest of the story.

 

Sorry, but I don't think God would think it is funny to "wear off" a child's behind. I would look on the Megan's Law website to see if this man has a criminal record of abusing and/or raping children. This guy is perverted in every sense of the word. And I would be proud to say that I think his view of God is sick.

 

Many parents today are in a position where they Biblically hate their children because they are not acting against their natural feelings and disciplining themselves towards the Godly habit-pattern of consistent correction...Fight your feelings.

 

For if thou beatest him with the rod he shall not die.  The verb for "beat" that he uses in this verse is not a one-time action. The verb calls for ongoing activity of beating. Therefore a parent may not reasonably expect that one or two times of Biblically beating the child is going to deliver that child once and for all of the rebellious heart with which he was born.

 

Now that's easy! My child's salvation lies in his continual beatings that I will administer to him. I'm glad to hear that salvation is so simple! According to this nutcase, if I give continuous beatings to my children to the point of leaving bruises and scars, their souls will be saved. Excuse me for a moment while I go beat my children in a Biblical way. Gee, I didn't know God was into child abuse and looking to make humans into child abusers. So, we're supposed to ignore the loving spirit we all have in order to allow physical beatings of our own children?? If the applicable Proverbs truly meant to physically beat your child, I would disregard it entirely. I'd rather tell God I loved my children and could not accept physically beating my children, rather than follow this Proverb and inflict abuse on anyone. Alot of things written by "man" is simply wrong. Even if it's found in the Bible. Many religions that claim to be "Christian" are simply man's perverted attempts to control others. How utterly deplorable.

 

 

Even though you may think these methods of correction that God has ordered parents to carry out are bestial, abusive, and unloving, you are the one who is bestial, abusive, and unloving if you don't obey God in this matter. Moreover, if you do not obey God your child likely will not be saved unless the Lord supernaturally in His mercy does so despite your disobedience.

 

This passage is just sick. I cannot imagine God as a child beater. This deranged individual is using God as an excuse to carry out his sadistic illness on children. There is no passage in the Bible, or any other book, that would convince me that it's proper to physically beat your children. If you do, you are teaching them that it is OK to physically harm others. Any religion that teaches such atrocities should be shunned, lest you become part of the vicious cycle of child abuse. When beaten children grow up, guess what they will model their parenting skills after?

 

Wasn't there a guy by the name of Reverend Jim Jones a few decades back who promised salvation for all of "his" followers? Hey, he promised it was God's will, so it must be right, huh?Look at all of them now: dead by mass cyanide poisoning at gunpoint. David Koresh made similar claims. Hey, he declared he was a prophet of God, so God must be speaking directly through him, right? He said God was good with polygamy and underage sexual crimes, right? Even the Mormon prophet Joseph Smith said God was good with polygamy. It's found right in their Directives and Covenants. That makes it God's Word, right? And God is never wrong. Correct?

 

You must correct your child in the privacy of your home so that the fruit of your training will be so indelibly fixed on the child's heart that you will not have to use the rod of correction in a
public setting and expose your family to this very real risk in today's permissive lawless society.

 

Translation: beat your kids in private so that the police and child welfare agencies won't rescue the children. If the kids are taken away, who will you beat then? Your spouse? Animals? Friends?


 

To put it another way, the one who does not Biblically beat his child, in a loving and consistent way, in a very real sense predisposes that child for hell and even has a direct part in
sending him there! This truth is precisely why the Lord says you "hate your child" if you do not chasten him betimes (Proverbs 13:24). Interestingly, the world believes a parents hates his child if he does use the rod on him!

 

Hmmmm. I guess my children and I are going to hell then because I don't physically beat my children. If this is the case, I will be proud to say that my kids are going to hell, because I gave them a loving environment and chose to discipline them without physical beatings. I suppose I should start loading up on the ice cream and iced lattes for our long, hot stay in hell.

 

 

Sweden has made it illegal for a parent to use the rod of  correction on his child. If Sweden does carry through and enforce this ungodly and morally unlawful legislation, I can guarantee that
the next generation in that land will likely be a nation of perverts.

 

So, am I to infer that all Swedish parents are going to hell? Hmmmm. Kind of scary.

 

 

A man left to his own inclinations and desires will love himself supremely above all others.

 

OK. Now this is really funny. How presumptious to make the biggest generalization I've ever heard. This guy is in need of serious psychological help.

 

I sincerely hope that no human being, in the name of God, thinks it's OK to beat their children and leave bruises. It is immoral, criminal, and something straight out of hell. God loves all of his children unconditionally. By any definition on Earth, love is unconditiional. There is no such thing as conditional love. Anyone who physically beats their children should be reported to the authorities and jailed for their crimes. If there is anything wrong with the world, it's the nutcases who use the name of God to justify crimes, abuse, perversion, and exploitation of our children. Some of the biggest atrocities in the history of this world have come from many of "God's" churches.

 

I have found that many "religions" teach abuse, hate, intolerance, and contempt for others. And they are taught to not question their "teachings." God gave us all a brain. I would hope that we all use it and reject religious teachings that put women as "secondary" to men. Or that American Indians have been cursed by God. Or that blacks are inferior to whites. Or that it's good to beat children.

 

The world can be such a sick place. And it starts with the teachings of most religions pushed by "man."

 

 
October 1, 2006, 9:41 am CDT

Fawn H.

I was very sad to see what happened to Fawn H.  She is the Fawn who is in trouble. My heart goes out to this pretty, young girl. I can see she has so much pain and I am glad that Dr. Phil is helping her.  I think about her a lot because  I feel for her. I know she is strong and she will get on the right track. Go Fawn!
 
October 2, 2006, 8:50 pm CDT

cult confrontations

Quote From: mydans

I am so glad you are at least out! Your message is prompting my reply.. What is the name of the cult? I have a son who has been "lost" to one there. He is in dire condition and still connected to C.U.T. Are we talking about the same one? His family had no idea where he was or if he was ,alive or dead for 6 years. Only did we get a call this spring. I still have no way of contacting him or where he is.  I will include you in my prayers also, for healing and "truth".
I read your post and was wondering what steps you took or have been taking to get your son back?  I am hoping for some guidance, informations, support..anything!!  How are you coping emotinally? How old is your son?  I know my daughter is being controlled by this one man but I can't find anyone who can explain to me how I can reach her.  How does a parent cope with something like this?  I know she is an adult but that doesn't change my need to protect her from harm.  It almost feels like a hopeless situation.  Sometimes the only way I think I can possibly accept what has happened to her is to collect all of her belongings and bury them so the pain of not having her in my life will go away.
 
October 2, 2006, 8:53 pm CDT

Cult Confrontations

Quote From: elffie

This definitly sounds like a cult to me.  If a person has that much control over another, that isn't right and I would consider that brainwashing from what you have described above.  I don't know what to say that will help you, I don't know of any agency that could help, but I do want you to know that I do hope that you can find your daughter and hopefully she will see what is happening to her. 

 

I am so sorry that she has to go through this, and I am sorry for you as well, being a mother myself, I do not want my children to ever go through this.  Keep on trying, you never know what may happen.

 

Take care.

 

Elffie

I read your profile and you stated anyone who does not know you should just ask.  Who are you?

 
October 3, 2006, 8:44 am CDT

09/21 Cult Confrontations

Quote From: cthelite

I read your profile and you stated anyone who does not know you should just ask.  Who are you?

I'm a 23 year old female.  I am a stay at home mom of a little boy and a little girl. =)  That's why I responded to you, if I believed my child was in a cult I would be very worried about it as well.  When you mentioned that it was a New Age cult I responded because New Age is not a cult, in the way that most people define it.  The word "cult" is really any group of people that get together to worship something, so really, every religion is a cult.   

 

I know that many people define it as brainwashing and there are definilty some groups that do that, but as we saw in this show, it can be a Christian group as well.  Those claiming to be Christian, anyway.  That's why we have to be careful with labeling people and what they believe.  I'm a Pagan, that's why I felt the need to interject, because what I believe is definitly not brainwashing. You did say that your child wasn't having any say in what she does, and that there is always someone there telling her what to do and what to think, and THAT is  brainwashing for sure.  I am free to do what I want, to think and believe as I want.  What I believe as been with me since I was a child, I didn't know it had a name until 5 years ago, it's not only something that I believe, but I feel it as well.

 

I hope this answers your question.  I welcome all questions and am happy that you asked.  =)  I hope that your search for your daughter continues.  Don't give up.  She may be needing you.

 

Take care.

 

 
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