Topic : 09/21 Cult Confrontations

http://www.rickross.com/faq.html  Your definition of a cult is erroneous.  Any group, whether religious, psychotherapeutic, business or community based can be deceptive and manipulative, which are the hallmarks of a cult or cult-like relationship.   Merely being an organized religion does not make a group a cult, no more than a business or charitable organization. 

1.

a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.

That didn't show up right.  Let me do it again....my computer is acting up, it seems......

1.a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.

Oh well..........

The word "cult" is really any group of people that get together to worship something, so really, every religion is a cult.   "

The dictionary.com definition is dated when one considers the information cult experts have been presenting for years now.   As one can see from some of the posts and reactions to Dr. Phil's show, both here and on other boards, the dictionary.com version is popular because no one really knows the true stories behind cults.   There is a lot of criticism towards people who are in cults, as being stupid and gullible, which is not the case.  It is the perception that every religion is a cult that prevents people from getting their loved ones out, because government will not intervene in truly damaging cults, like the one the people on the Dr. Phil show are involved with.   The attorney general has tried to be inclusive because the argument is that this is not a cult, in the perjorative sense, but it is a religion and they have a right to do what they do.  Orrin Hatch has looked the other way for the same reasons.  

You are correct when you say New Age is not a cult, but rather a belief system.  However, there are many cults that have twisted New Age beliefs, just as Christian cults have.  

You are correct when you say New Age is not a cult, but rather a belief system.  However, there are many cults that have twisted New Age beliefs, just as Christian cults have.  

Exactly.  That is what I was saying. 

Dear cthelite,

I am very sad to hear of your deep pain and loss of your daughter to the Mafu AKA Penny Torres Channeling Group.  I was with this group for over 15 years.... and I personally spend about $100,000.00 to stay in the many differnt Mastery Groups that met in the lat 80's through 1999.

I know it is very difficult to understand what this New Age Stuff is all about.... I can only speak about my own experiences there.

This group also is being funded by your TAX money in the form of GRANTS for the Oregon Tiger Sancuary at the Eagle Point Oregon Location... that is where the person who CHANNELS MAFU lives and has something like a SLAVE came of devotees working for the payment to get to attend the events that are channelled for free.

Frist i will tell you, that most of the people there... just like my self... in the beginning are DRAWN because of very low-self esteem... the GURU... TEACHER or CHANNEL becomes the parent that you never had... the one who BELIEVES in your other worldly higher ideas.  In the beginning for years... you have the carrott of becoming a SUPER HERO.... or SUPER BEING.... but truly after over 25 years, NO ONE has MASTERED any of the things that are beyond this world... but, that is the DRAWING CARD...

The Ranch Location is 24001 Highway 140 Eagle Point  Oregon 97524

The Ashram 12800 Dead Indian Memorial Highway Ashland Oregon

Yes your daughter loves it there, why, they spend many hours a day meditating and praying and from what I have heard over the past 5 years.... a lot of lesbian sex... and such.  I am blessed that I was never involved in those things there...

But the real story about these groups is the MONEY.... there are hundreds of thousands of dollars over the years.  And, the pier pressure is, if you do not attend the groups.... or leave.. you are labeled the DEviL or EVIL... belive me I know.... there is nothing like the rath of the Channell if she is displeased.

The amazing thing is that our govt tends to not get involved in Religious Organizations.... there is a hands off policy.

There is lots of verbal abuse, physical abuse, and slave labor.  They TALK about SELF MASTERY and LOVE.... but in truth, they play mind games and the WORDS spoken have NEVER been proven by any one.....  you do not DARE QUESTIONS or ASK A qUESTION about things there.

I have seen the distruction of many families to both the Ramtha.com Group and the Mafu Group.

They then to say, Mind Your own Business... if you speak up you are a trader of a fallen angel....

There is another group, The Ramtha Organization....  ramtha.com  with many similar problems.

You must realize your daughter is OF AGE... and self responsible for her own choice.... when I was there, my family tried to stop me too... l lost my first marriage because of it....  When you are in these groups, you only want to be left alone, and not bothered by the family.

It is only now after being away for about 3 or 4 years that I can honestly and evently evaluate my own personal experience there.

They are being RE BORN in a NEW FAMILY.  If you look on the internet, you will RARELY see anything about this one particular group.... yet, hundreds of people have left the group and will not speak up.... FEAR is a BIG Motivator.

I leftl ong ago, visted in 2001... but found it to be quite a differnet group.. mostly Lesbian Women of all ages... I simply did not fit in.

There are movie starts, well know singers; you would be suprised at the HOLLYWOOD NAMES who have been involved on the fringe of these groups over the years... although. they come and go... not living there, they do not know a lot of the REAL details of these groups. Steven Segal to name one.... 

The only thing I can say is, bury your daughter in your mind... let her go....  Even if you were able to get her out of there... the mental programming is so deep, she will only go back.

WHAT ARE THEY SELLING..... A BIG DREAM.... These groups are PROMISSING so many things.... and now after over 25 YEARS... NO ONE... ASCENDED LIKE JESUS..... or can CONSCIOUSLY PERFORM MIRACLES.... this is what they WAG THE DOG IN YOUR FACE ABOUT.... we were very stupid... the leader became a Hind Monk.... now Buddhist.... and they are selling Meditation Practices.

The teacher is a very loving person, and since the teacher is a CHANNEL... he leaves and takes NO RESPoNSIBILITY for the people there.... they BLAME US... for any LACK of MASTERY.

The truth is, if you were selling a Educational Degree... with NO ONE GRADUATING.... or ever getting out of school... then you are a fool.... 

The prices are cheaper now than they were in the late 80's.... and they have an ON LINE VIDEO COURSE...  http://www.foundationformeditativestudies.org/ 

I was with them BEFORE they purchase the Oregon properties.  Many peole sold their business and homes... to devote their whole life to the group... and then about 5 years about... many left.

It is a hopeless situation... there is truly nothing you can do.. because of FREE WILL.... and the age of the people there... and the Oregon Tiger Sancuary gives the group creditibility.  Grants and Tax money support it.

This web site has some information about these types of cults.

http://www.factnet.org/cgi-bin/discus/discus.cgi

Here is a web site of another devotee perhaps you can make contact she is still involved.

http://www.factnet.org/cgi-bin/discus/discus.cgi

Truly, I do not think there is anything you can do.... FOR ME, when the MONEY RAN OUT... temporarly I began to have a BIG WAKE UP CALL.... we were told, if we did not have the money to attend... we DID NOT want to be there anymore... so we best just move on.

I had thought about writing a book about it... but, I did not want to wast all my energy on it.

The truth was, I was able to be finiacially successfull long before I was with that group.....  it is one of those games..... BUY YOUR ILLUMINATION..... or BUY YOUR ASCENSION.... they tell you, we only appreciate WISDOM if we PAY FOR IT..... we were all spiritual hoars. 

So, ask me any questions, I will try to hep... but truly, I do not think you will ever see her come home... that is unless the MONEY RUNS OUT... or the NEXT SHAKE UP with the Residents.

I have a niece that has been missing for 15 years as of October 17, 2006.  She disappeared from Deming, New Mexico.  I did email to Dr Phil to request his help with showing Jennifer's poster to the panel of guests he had on the show regarding this cult to see if they perhaps recognize Jennifer.  She was travelling by bike to reach a missionary group in Mexico, but was told how dangerous it was and she decided to return home to Missoula, Montana.  Her mother heard from her every three days and the last call was on October 17, 1991 when she indicated she was coming home.  The not knowing is  most difficult  and frustrating.  We have no where else to turn, private investigators are expensive and we have used what money we can afford on a private investigators.  Where else does one turn?  I'm hoping Dr. Phil can help us out and help all of us  who have missing loved ones. 

God Bless,

mablumer

You know, when you are in a CULT you really do not know it...

I did not truly realize it was a cult, until I read some of the post at the Rick's web sit.

But, the Mafu Group says, the Catholic Church is also a cult.... so with that perspective, you sort of put the cult world out of your mind.

In truth, just about everything we do in this world, EFFECTS and SHAPES our thinking;  this is wha tI have noticed...

It took me a very very long time, to undersand where the "I" was within me, that was not programmed by someone or something outside of my self....

I will tell you, that this goup does NOT HOLD PEOPLE BEYOND their will ..... everyone was free to come and go by their own choice.  But ,what happens in these dynmamics is THE GROUP becomes your family, and to leave, is more like leaving your family.  There is a lot of emotional attachment to these groups.... and they mix religion and god all up in the bag... it becomes confusing.

What is interesting, in the beginning they talked a lot about being soverign and Self-Mastery, but later that message sort of got lost when the CHANNEL became a GURU.

Many people bailed at that point because the message had changed. 

I always thought tha if you were in a cult, you could NOT leave, but that is not always he case.  As humans we all seek and want to be loved respected and known.. in these groups, you are loved, respected and known.

However, the ones who truly need the help in these groups, are the ones who are not finiacially self supporting... seems to me, the real abuse happens to the onces who LIVE at the RANCH and have not means to financially spport them selves.  I have heard a lot of stories about verbal, physical and mental abuse.  They are told, it is their KARMA... that is a very subjective thing... and one that is very hard to reasonable debate.

There is another web site named  http://cosmicfool.com  they have many post about these and other groups... although the site is not current, the older informaiton is very eye opening.