Topic : 12/20 Marry Me or Else!

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Created on : Friday, September 22, 2006, 12:20:09 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 09/26/06) It’s do or die for the men today, as their partners tell them to either walk down the aisle or walk the highway! Tony and Mary have dated for 12 years, and have been engaged for eight. Mary wants to set a wedding date, but Tony says even after all these years, he’s not ready and still feels pressured to tie the knot. Does Tony fear getting married or getting married to Mary? Then, Rosanna has been dating her boyfriend, Dennis, for almost five years and says she’s tired of “playing house.” Dennis maintains that he told Rosanna from the start he didn’t want to get married. Should they just throw in the towel and move on? Plus, Robin shares some relationship tips, and the women finally take a stand and issue ultimatums for their men! Join the discussion.

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chillin'
December 20, 2006, 12:40 pm PST

red tape

Quote From: flrat69

On this issue our thinking is very similar.  For some I think it has become a symbol.  My main point beyond what you had said though dealt with legalities.  If you are ever involved in a transfer of property for example, the marriage certificate saves a lot on red tape.

My ex husband's grandfather married his grandmother on DEC 31, so he could claim her on his taxes for the year without having the responsibilities. They were unhappily married for 70 years. That is in response to your red tape comment which made me think of it. The family was equal parts horrified and disgusted (hers), and amused (his). It adds nothing to the discussion, and is just an aside.

 
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giddy
December 20, 2006, 12:45 pm PST

nail hit head and all that...

Quote From: fabof3

I have read on this board a few times that marriage is a piece of paper I am.well a little disturbed by that!!  Marriage is soooo much MORE than paper!  But I suppose if that is how you view marriage and marriage vows then perhaps. You are correct in NEVER being MARRIED!!   I think it is sad that in today society, we just dont  place value on marriage, it is disposable.  I think it is fabulous!!  Perhaps I am just lucky that my husband and I do not have a simple piece of paper as our glue!!  Good luck to you all!!

Marriage is what you make of it. I disposed of one marriage because it was a really (really, really no brain functions detected) stupid mistake. I am remarried and now I actually feel (happily, ecstatically silly with unmitigated joy) married. It isn't the institution it's the people involved.
 

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December 20, 2006, 1:06 pm PST

This is too funny

 

When my wife (we celebrated our 20th on 12/12.

 

We dated for six weeks.

 

She was talking to her parents about 3 weeks into our dating phase.  My future FIL asked her what my intentions were. (he was trying to be funny, and I intentionally ignored that. I knew where the relationship was doing) I told her to tell him, "He'll know when the time is right."  When we decided where it was going, I simply asked her as we walked out of a restaurant and headed for the car.  I knew I was "marrying up" and knew I'd kick myself in the future. "When it's right, it's right." She has no siblings and two cousins.  Guess who became the son?

 

Timing.  I've written about this before.  There was a prof who would give "sex talks" to various groups (e.g., dorm floors - we didn't have greek life).  He pointed out that an engagement should be no longer than it takes to plan the wedding and hit the aisle.  She & my MIL made very simple plans: one attendant each (her matron of honor did the taping) the grandparents, etc.  We had a sit-down meal at a place specializing in such things.

 

I won't go into the details as it would be too long. Suffice to say, we spent the afternoon in the hospital's ER where we worked (and met).

 

Here's a couple of observations: 

1) If you move in together, it's going to be difficult to move out & away from it because you have so much invested in items you've (each party) has brought into the shared quarters, and so on.  Living together has absolutely nothing to do with getting marriage (see previous).  If you live alone, have a discussion, you can kill the deal when it gets too messy.

 

2) Loss of freedom.  <snicker> I've never felt so free.  You double the joy and halve the bad. It's not as if I feel like I have to go to something with her because she went with me at some other point.  It's not a zero-sum game (everything balancing at zero)

 

3) Guys don't understand two issues, married or not:

 

a) Every woman, conscious of it or not (willing to admit it), has a couple of (calendar) dates in the back of their mind, regardless of they are aware of it or not:  some type of commitment to the relationship, whether it's dating exclusively, getting engaged, etc.

 

b) n.b. (nota bene - note well)  Guys, this took me a long time to figure out on my own and I'll give it away for free: It has nothing related to marriage but related to any time she wants to "unload" about work, friends, family, etc.

 

(pardon the all-caps I've been around long enough to know when it's important and when it's not) When a woman talks/shares,

 

SHE'S NOT LOOKING FOR A PROBLEM SOLVER!  

 

e.g.,

("The next time that happens, here's what you need to do: yadda yadda") or ("Here's what you should have done") 

 

SHE JUST WANTS SOMEONE TO LISTEN TO HER. (and she chose you)

 

If you can't keep your mouth shut and literally have to bite your tongue, do it.  If you interfere with her sharing, she might as well buy a teddy bear and keep it in her bedroom and talk to it.  It's not going to talk back. Stare deeply into her eyes which will let her know when she's talking and let her hold the talking stick (whoever holds the stick speaks) - it works well in a smalish group.

 

There's the obvious set of circumstances where she is soliciting your opion and after she's done, "Do you have any ideas?".

 

 
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December 20, 2006, 1:16 pm PST

12/20 Marry Me or Else!

She's a hottie!  If she were my girlfriend, she'd already be my wife!
 
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frustrated
December 20, 2006, 1:38 pm PST

A different kind of desperate

I watched and recorded this episode the first time it aired because it was so riviting.   At that time, I read on the message board several peoples comments about how this was the 21st century and how could a woman be so deperate to get married as to allow her boyfriend or fiance to hold her life in limbo for years while he decides what he wants and gets all the marriage benfits in the mean time.

 

As sad a commentary as it was on the importance society places on women getting married even in modern times, there is a flip side to this that is just as bad.

 

Women who go to extremes desperate to prove that they don't need marriage or a man.  

 

 While no modern, acheiving, independant woman wants to be held to old fashioned courtship rules where the man makes all moves (dates, engagements, etc) while she waits for him, some womens quest to trump this is just as futile. And it comes in several forms.

 

*   THE WOMAN WHO "MARRIES" HERSELF

 

Some time ago I saw a woman do this.  It was folly for the news broadcast.  But really it was just plain sad.   I remember this woman looked young enough to where I knew she was shooting herself in the  foot by doing this crap!   This woman who still had plenty of time to find someone pretty much just anounced to the all the men out there that they should get anywhere near her!

 

I also just recently saw another case of this on the Rachael Ray show. A 50 year old woman was marrying herself. Being that she was 50 I will take a guess that she held out for a real marriage as long as she could through her 40's.

 

The women who do this and the women who wear right hand rings my actually be worse than bridezillas.  They think announcing to the world that they don't need a man to buy them a ring or throw themselves a big party is a substitute for the love and partnership you can't put a price on.

 

* WOMEN WHO WEAR RIGHT HAND RINGS

 

I don't know it the jewelery stores came up with this or women did.  I guess jewelry stores said to themselves that if these days there are a bunch of women out there that are sore about holding out for an engagment ring, we might as well join them if we can't beat the marriage decline because we are loosing money.  So an enagement like ring meant to be worn on the right hand as a sign of empowerment (ya right!) was born.

 

You know, if I REALLY didn't want to be married, I wouldn't wear anything that looked like an engagement ring. Yet these women often protest that they "Don't need a man to buy them a ring".  REALLY. I never would have guessed, seeing as a lot of little girls have rings, or you get a class ring when you graduate from high school, etc.  But thanks for making that point ladies.

 

*  THE WOMEN WHO ARE TO BUSY ACHIEVING TO GET MARRIED/ AKA " I WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT IF I WAS MARRIED"

 

Big cop out!  There are so many women out there that are succesful and married. We all know them. Politicians, journalists, business owners, etc.

 

The interesting thing is, a lot of them didn 't even live in  the 20th/21st centuries.  Yet some women will protest that this is the price a modern achieving woman pays.

 

Well its true that some men can be threatened by a powerful woman, and those who are not are in shorter supply. But the key here is finding the RIGHT man, not suggesting that any woman who goes beyond graduating high school is destined to be alone or that marriage is an obstacle to success.

 

* WOMEN WHO PURPOSELY BECOME SINGLE MOTHERS

 

I was watching the news one night a few months ago and there was a story about a lesbian couple and a single women who found out they all had kids from the same sperm bank doner and decided to become friends.

 

The reporter was there to show them a video clip of their doner. A handsome doctor, who was the most requested donor at the spermbank. He was the real McDreamy.  When the lesbian couple saw the video of the doctor, they were thrilled. 

 

But the single woman who used that same doner looked like she had been punched in the stomach when she saw what kind of a man he was.  I can only guess what was going through her mind.  But I am guessing she was thinking that she LITERALLY came within drops or her dream guy.  But all she did was pusposely saddle herself with his kid, and a doner at that.  Which decreases this young womans chance of finding her own man.

 

It so tough to be a modern woman who can do almost anything she wants, but feels she is waiting on a man to give her a future.  But don't, PLEASE DON'T jump the gun and shoot yourself in the foot.

 

Desperate and desperately trying to prove a point that dosen't have merrit t can lead to the same place, a dead end.  I really don't know what to tell other women. Things aren't really going to change until women propossing is a common practice.  But until then I guess you have to relationship savvy or be prepared to live a truely contented single life free of right hand rings.  

 

Because truthfully, NO MAN has ever thrown himself a wedding, or bought himself a wedding ring.

 

 

 
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December 20, 2006, 1:43 pm PST

breaking my heart

this show  just slams this issue in my face. i have been in love with (mike) since 1973. he will not give me a commitment.  i have tried to move on. but he shows up and  i fall back in love with him  all over again. everyone i know tells me to move on and i wish i could.. my heart is so broken and i wish i could fix it....

jean

 
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frustrated
December 20, 2006, 1:50 pm PST

Why should he marry you when he has a "wife"

These women are allowing those men to control their lives, I feel those men have no honor in their heart for the women that I saw on your show! The title of the book; "He's Not That Into You"; comes to mind, perhaps is waiting for something better! He will use you up until you are not able physically do anything anymore, you are doing everything and they play! Just waiting for "perhaps the next woman to come along and then he gets married to her! Get out while you can. Pack up and move on, he will probably wine and dine another "wife" to care for everything because you are gone!
 
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December 20, 2006, 1:59 pm PST

12/20 Marry Me or Else!

Quote From: richardh

She's a hottie!  If she were my girlfriend, she'd already be my wife!

Wow. 

 

How superficial. 

 
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happy
December 20, 2006, 2:00 pm PST

you are right on

Quote From: bang70

 

When my wife (we celebrated our 20th on 12/12.

 

We dated for six weeks.

 

She was talking to her parents about 3 weeks into our dating phase.  My future FIL asked her what my intentions were. (he was trying to be funny, and I intentionally ignored that. I knew where the relationship was doing) I told her to tell him, "He'll know when the time is right."  When we decided where it was going, I simply asked her as we walked out of a restaurant and headed for the car.  I knew I was "marrying up" and knew I'd kick myself in the future. "When it's right, it's right." She has no siblings and two cousins.  Guess who became the son?

 

Timing.  I've written about this before.  There was a prof who would give "sex talks" to various groups (e.g., dorm floors - we didn't have greek life).  He pointed out that an engagement should be no longer than it takes to plan the wedding and hit the aisle.  She & my MIL made very simple plans: one attendant each (her matron of honor did the taping) the grandparents, etc.  We had a sit-down meal at a place specializing in such things.

 

I won't go into the details as it would be too long. Suffice to say, we spent the afternoon in the hospital's ER where we worked (and met).

 

Here's a couple of observations: 

1) If you move in together, it's going to be difficult to move out & away from it because you have so much invested in items you've (each party) has brought into the shared quarters, and so on.  Living together has absolutely nothing to do with getting marriage (see previous).  If you live alone, have a discussion, you can kill the deal when it gets too messy.

 

2) Loss of freedom.  <snicker> I've never felt so free.  You double the joy and halve the bad. It's not as if I feel like I have to go to something with her because she went with me at some other point.  It's not a zero-sum game (everything balancing at zero)

 

3) Guys don't understand two issues, married or not:

 

a) Every woman, conscious of it or not (willing to admit it), has a couple of (calendar) dates in the back of their mind, regardless of they are aware of it or not:  some type of commitment to the relationship, whether it's dating exclusively, getting engaged, etc.

 

b) n.b. (nota bene - note well)  Guys, this took me a long time to figure out on my own and I'll give it away for free: It has nothing related to marriage but related to any time she wants to "unload" about work, friends, family, etc.

 

(pardon the all-caps I've been around long enough to know when it's important and when it's not) When a woman talks/shares,

 

SHE'S NOT LOOKING FOR A PROBLEM SOLVER!  

 

e.g.,

("The next time that happens, here's what you need to do: yadda yadda") or ("Here's what you should have done") 

 

SHE JUST WANTS SOMEONE TO LISTEN TO HER. (and she chose you)

 

If you can't keep your mouth shut and literally have to bite your tongue, do it.  If you interfere with her sharing, she might as well buy a teddy bear and keep it in her bedroom and talk to it.  It's not going to talk back. Stare deeply into her eyes which will let her know when she's talking and let her hold the talking stick (whoever holds the stick speaks) - it works well in a smalish group.

 

There's the obvious set of circumstances where she is soliciting your opion and after she's done, "Do you have any ideas?".

 

you have described marriage very well, the problem is that the people who are on the show have no idea what a real marriage is. I thank you for your wisdom and coming from a male, it would be great if men would read your message, but the ones who do need to read these messages will not take the time! Sad for them, as you said, twice the joy, and half the sad! Nicely done!
 
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December 20, 2006, 2:15 pm PST

Take Back Your Power, My Beautiful Sisters

 This show really hit me close to home that I couldn't wait for the show to end to write on this board. I rarely do this but my heart told me to speak out.

I saw myself in the last women on the show (I missed the first couple).  Hinting around to get engaged and having a fairytale wedding in my head all planned out detail by detail.  People asking you "So when are you getting married." Then you feel pressured.

I got married.  The fairytale ended in divorce and abuse.  It all comes down to low self esteem.  I did not feel good about myself. So when someone showed me "the attention" that I craved I jumped in head first ignoring any and all red flags that came up.  The attention that I craved needed to come from me.  Not from outside of me.  Anything filling my empty place other than the love I needed to give myself, proved to be false and short lived.

I think we know inside our hearts that something is not right.  But instead of calling it quits, their is a voice that goes off in our heads that says "people will think you were a quitter" or "you feel dumb for staying that long" So our ego wins out and our heart gets betrayed. 

Women, I have been there. I know it does not feel good to beg someone to marry you.  What would your advice be to a close friend? 
Because of my experience, I started a website to help women reclaim their power and pump up self esteem at http://www.boldandworthy.com.  When you love yourself first, the way you want  someone to love you, you will attract the right man to you.

Blessings to everyone.  You are better than second best.  Be the queen that you are.


 
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