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Topic : 11/01 Is This Normal?

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Created on : Friday, October 27, 2006, 02:20:08 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Do you know someone whose behavior is always making you raise an eyebrow? Dr. Phil helps his guests distinguish what's normal and what's not. Kelly says she’s tired of her husband, Scott’s, jokes. She says they’re inappropriate, obnoxious and rude. Scott admits that his jokes can be sexual in nature, but he loves being the life of the party. Will Kelly loosen up, or does Scott need to tone it down? Then, Vicki fears that she’s dying and visits the doctor at least once a week. Her husband, Harvey, says she needs to stop worrying about her health or she’s really going to make herself sick. Is it all in Vicki’s head, or does she really have a reason to be afraid? And, Shelita refuses to celebrate the holidays because she says they’re pagan festivals. Her sister, Akea, says she contradicts herself by accepting presents. Will Akea be able to embrace her sister’s decision, or is Shelita being unreasonable? Plus, Dr. Phil and Robin kick off their participation in the 2006 Toys for Tots holiday campaign! Join the discussion.

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October 28, 2006, 7:30 pm CDT

11/01 Is This Normal?

Quote From: st_tng

My sister refuses (or is not allowed) to talk to me at all any more.  Her first husband beat her into submission and her current husband has kept her there.  She calls herself evil and tops her Christmas tree with a skull.

 

IS THIS NORMAL? 

 

Is there a pagan ritual that is being practiced here that I don't understand? 

I think maybe your sister is saying that to get attention.  Pagans are not evil.  Sure, there are some that are probably not that nice, just like in any other religion, but we are peaceful people.  Pagan simply means "country dweller" it derives from the word "Paganus".  No evil there. =)

 

A "Christmas tree" is Pagan.  I call ours our Yule tree.  That is what we celebrate, the Winter Solstice.  It was when Pagans would bring the outside inside.  Wreaths are also Pagan, it represents the circle of the year.  Gift giving was a Pagan tradition as well.  They were given as thanks to the God(s) and Goddess(s).  Ever heard of the song "Deck the Halls"?  Pagan. =)

 

Why would you assume that what your sister is doing is Pagan?  Because she said she was evil?  Or because she has a tree? LOL  As for me, I put a star (pentagram) on top of my tree, like many do.

 

Stick around, I'm sure if you have any other questions, they'll be answered here.  There are quite a few Pagans that come to these boards.  If you have a question, I bet they won't go unanswered.

 

Take care!

 

Elffie

 
October 28, 2006, 10:51 pm CDT

11/01 Is This Normal?

Quote From: jettav

The lady doesn't want to celebrate holidays. And so what, she accepts a gift, if you have a problemw ith some one acceptonmg something then don't buy them something, get over it.

I have been ridiculed many times for not taking my kids trick or treating, what's the big deal and who's business is it anyway? Believe me, my kids are not missing a thing, they have hteir fun and activites and tehy come home happy and fullfilled, no needt o take them to a bnch of strangers home for treats, thre are better places to get those and they don't have to dress up like freakin lookin, scary obnoxious beings to have a good time, that's the rule in my home and our family traditions will continue as is regardless of what others think.

My daughters school had their fall party and no costumes were aloud, did they miss out on anything, no way, the child came home with alot more treats then she has ever seen as well as a couple days before that, had another activity at hte school, came home with a bag full of treats, right along with the excitement of the fun, games, singing,food, friends. two more activities to go and it isn't including the traditional trick or treating, don't need it.

holidays, in my opinion is the tie to come and celebrate and have fun together and so what if we all celebrate in differnet ways to meet the needs and desires of our families, what a boring world this would be if we all did the same thing the same way, I celebrate my way, you celebrate your way and when our children grow up and can make decissions like this on their own,t ehy will develop their own ways of celebrating and that is the way it should be.

So to the sister who disagrees with her sister for not celebrating, get over it and go do your own thing. no where does it say that it is mandadtory to celerate int he same ways as every one else. Actually, it's really a cool thing to do your own thing, makes it more special that way.
I think it's odd that she accepts gifts but doesn't celebrate the holidays. It's hypocritical IMO.  Does she buy gifts in return for these holidays?

That's what I'm wondering, I guess we'll find out in a couple days.

And I have to wonder Jetta, are you saying that all kids who trick or treat dress up "freakin lookin" and like "scary obnoxious beings"...

Also, I think you are missing a key point here. To avoid a holiday because it's have pagan roots is to suggest that paganism is bad or evil or something. Pagans are actually incredibly peaceful passive people.
 
October 28, 2006, 11:27 pm CDT

what is a pagan?

I've looked it up and can't find any site that defines it the same way.  can someone explain?
 
October 29, 2006, 3:56 am CST

Mixed Messages

Quote From: jettav

The lady doesn't want to celebrate holidays. And so what, she accepts a gift, if you have a problemw ith some one acceptonmg something then don't buy them something, get over it.

I have been ridiculed many times for not taking my kids trick or treating, what's the big deal and who's business is it anyway? Believe me, my kids are not missing a thing, they have hteir fun and activites and tehy come home happy and fullfilled, no needt o take them to a bnch of strangers home for treats, thre are better places to get those and they don't have to dress up like freakin lookin, scary obnoxious beings to have a good time, that's the rule in my home and our family traditions will continue as is regardless of what others think.

My daughters school had their fall party and no costumes were aloud, did they miss out on anything, no way, the child came home with alot more treats then she has ever seen as well as a couple days before that, had another activity at hte school, came home with a bag full of treats, right along with the excitement of the fun, games, singing,food, friends. two more activities to go and it isn't including the traditional trick or treating, don't need it.

holidays, in my opinion is the tie to come and celebrate and have fun together and so what if we all celebrate in differnet ways to meet the needs and desires of our families, what a boring world this would be if we all did the same thing the same way, I celebrate my way, you celebrate your way and when our children grow up and can make decissions like this on their own,t ehy will develop their own ways of celebrating and that is the way it should be.

So to the sister who disagrees with her sister for not celebrating, get over it and go do your own thing. no where does it say that it is mandadtory to celerate int he same ways as every one else. Actually, it's really a cool thing to do your own thing, makes it more special that way.
I too have had family members question me about not letting my son go trick or treating for halloween.  They couln'nt understand how I felt it conflicted with my religious beliefs.  What made them stop and think was when I told them it just didn't make sense to me that we spend so much time teaching our kids about "stranger danger" and how they should not take candy from strangers, and then we dress them up in costumes and take them to strange homes and make them beg for candy.  My son did not miss out on anything and he certainly was never deprived of candy; but he did learn to stand up for his beliefs.
 
October 29, 2006, 7:17 am CST

11/01 Is This Normal?

Quote From: lutzbups

Are you people kidding me? Usually I dislike commenting on religion or politics, but I think one if you do not have kids, back off this topic and to each their own. Second, if you have kids who cares if it has a religious intention or not! Trick or treating is not about any religious concept. We have a homecoming during high school if you want to be technical that is a pagean holiday too, because it is something done annually and at just about every school. Sure we need to be cautious, but lets remember they are KIDS, because you are too damn lazy to worry or buy candy, excuses like its a pagean holiday comes into play. I wonder if you take that into account for everything else too, or is it that you just cannot be bothered taking your kids out and doing the whole costume thing. There are things you do not want to do as parents, but remember as a kids your fond memories of just that, being a kid. I also bet that people who choose not to take part in these activities because of the so-called religion factor also had bad memories of their own from childhood, but as a wake up call, does not mean it will happen to your children, not unless you break the chain. I think that Pagean holiday and Jehavah Witness' take their own beliefs a little too far into a society that does not need or want their negative feelings toward "holidays" that they do not want to take place in.

I think that Pagean holiday and Jehavah Witness' take their own beliefs a little too far into a society that does not need or want their negative feelings toward "holidays" that they do not want to take place in.

 

How is that?  I don't think Pagan beliefs are negative at all.  And Jehovah Witnesses don't celebrate any holidays, incuding birthdays, we Pagans surely do celebrate things!  What does Jehovah Witnesses have to do with this topic anyway?  Why did you bring them in?  Do you know what Pagan beliefs even are?  I have Jehova Witnesses coming to my house and I can tell you that we do not agree on much. LOL

 

And Samhain (Halloween) is a holiday started by Pagans.  So there is a spiritual connection.  Paganism is a nature based religion.  Samhain has many meanings, but for the whole it is the third and final harvest of the year, and it is a time to remember the dead and is a celebration of the eternal cycle of reincarnation.  Samhain comes from two possibilites, one, the God of death, Samana, and the other from the Irish Gaelic word, "samhraidhreadh" which literally means, "the summer's end".  October 31 st marked the end of the year and November 1st was the Celtic New Year.

 

Trick or treating is not about any religious concept.

 

I will say that food was left out for ancestors and other spirits and would be left out of the lighted window, which evolved to our modern day trick or treat.  Candles were put in the windows to guide the earth bound spirits along their way.  Also, Samhain is no more evil than any other holiday, but my ancestors did know that evil exists.  So, they would take vegetables and carve faces in them and put them outside because they thought this would protect them.  Our modern day jack o lanterns. =)  In Ireland, to this day, it is still a custom to put candles in the windows on Samhain night and leave plates of food for visiting spirits.

 

As you can see, Samhain has a long history, much like lots of Pagan traditions.

 

Again, I don't see anything negative about our beliefs.

 

Thanks for reading.

 

 

 
October 29, 2006, 7:24 am CST

Cool Ur Jets Scott

 

           Scott you need to Cool ur jets Bud, telling a Joke like what you had told your wife, is ok if your telling it to one of the boys, You ever give is some thought she doesn't appreciate your confused scense of Humor. Scott you need to take a step back consider what your doing. You know she doesn't appreciate your Humor, if you think your So Humorous why don't you go for audition The Next Funniest Stand Up Comic, see where that takes You.

 

 

 

                                                                                                             Protect

 
October 29, 2006, 7:27 am CST

Wrong question

Quote From: elffie

I think maybe your sister is saying that to get attention.  Pagans are not evil.  Sure, there are some that are probably not that nice, just like in any other religion, but we are peaceful people.  Pagan simply means "country dweller" it derives from the word "Paganus".  No evil there. =)

 

A "Christmas tree" is Pagan.  I call ours our Yule tree.  That is what we celebrate, the Winter Solstice.  It was when Pagans would bring the outside inside.  Wreaths are also Pagan, it represents the circle of the year.  Gift giving was a Pagan tradition as well.  They were given as thanks to the God(s) and Goddess(s).  Ever heard of the song "Deck the Halls"?  Pagan. =)

 

Why would you assume that what your sister is doing is Pagan?  Because she said she was evil?  Or because she has a tree? LOL  As for me, I put a star (pentagram) on top of my tree, like many do.

 

Stick around, I'm sure if you have any other questions, they'll be answered here.  There are quite a few Pagans that come to these boards.  If you have a question, I bet they won't go unanswered.

 

Take care!

 

Elffie

Thanks for your reply Effie.  I'm truly sorry if my question offended you - I didn't mean to imply that pagans are evi - that's just what my sister calls herself.  I know the Christmas tree and most of our Holiday traditions have pagan roots.  They're just traditions - not Christian and not evil. 

 

I'm wondering about the source of topping a tree with a skull. I don't know what a skull-topped Christmas tree signifies - if anything at all.  I'm wondering if there is a symbolic meaning to this type of decoration of which I am ignorant - from any historical, religious, or spiritual source.  I know it's not Christian, and I know it isn't "main stream" holiday traditional. 

 

Is a skull-topped Christmas tree "normal?"  What is the meaning or source for it? 

 

Actually, I'm much more concerned with my sister's other challenges:  spousal abuse, anorexia, extremely low self-esteem, always wearing black, and calling herself "evil."  I think she carries far too much guilt to be truly evil (my definition of evil being malicious intent and lack of remorse).  My attempts to provide positive messages and feedback for over two decades have not been successful.  During a conversation where I was trying to convince her that she is worth my efforts to help her, she has told me "We will never have a relationship."  I agree that she is seeking attention, but attention from me is definitely unwelcome at this time.

 

Our mother has been diagnosed with Alzheimer's, and my sister won't even talk to me about her care.  My niece was married in September, and I wasn't invited to the shower or wedding, which deeply hurt our mother (although I wasn't surprised).  The gifts our mother bought for the bride have been refused (which did surprise me), and has hurt and confused Mom even more.  My task has been damage control:  telling Mom I'll talk with my sister whenever she's willing, acknowledging and validating Mom's feelings, offering as much comfort as I can, and staying with her until she stops crying.

 

So, now you've got much more of the story.  And again, I'm sorry if I offended you.  My intent was to seek information - not to imply anything "evil" about anyone.

 

Thanks for listening, and have a joyful Holiday season.

 

 

 

 
October 29, 2006, 7:27 am CST

11/01 Is This Normal?

Quote From: fidosmommy

I'm a church pastor who has given up trying to get members to understand that wreaths, trees, mistletoe, and red and green have nothing whatsoever to do with Christmas and are indeed symbols of pagan religions.  But, if they want to celebrate with over the top decorating and gift buying, I guess I won't be able to stop them.   I wonder what the originator of Christmas thinks about it, though. 

 

I grew up in a midwestern, mid-sized city where the local political cartoonist used the same cartoon every Christmas day for years on end.  Hugh Haynie depicted a person staring off into air, holding his incredibly full Christmas gift list.  He thinks to himself "Have I forgotten anybody?"

as the One whose birthday it is is looking over his shoulder, finding his name nowhere on the list.

 

I personally decided years ago that Christmas cards, parties, clothes, foods and the like would be eliminated from my celebrations.  I would only do those things that put Christ at the center.  Since that decision, Christmas has become happier, longer-lasting, with absolutely no post-holiday let-down.  After Christmas comes the rest of the Christian year with an equal amount of meaning and joy.  I would never want to return to the shopping malls and kitchen to find Christmas. 

 

Thank you for listening.  Nobody else around here will!   <grin>

I don't do any over the top buying when holidays come around.  We make our own wreaths and get our own tree (has to be real!).  My kids only get 3 gifts each, that's it.  But you see, these decorations are how my ancestors celebrated and I like to carry on the tradition. =)   

 

I wonder what the originator of Christmas thinks about it, though. 

 

Hmm, I don't know if we could go back and ask them.  In an attempt to convert Pagans, Christians brought the Pagan traditions into their festivities.  Hasn't anyone ever wondered why Christmas is celebrated so closely to the Winter Solstice?  Jesus wasn't even born in winter. 

 

I don't have any post holiday let downs as well.  I really don't like crowded shopping malls and try to avoid them if I can. LOL  I agree with you on that one! LOL  I'm glad that you can celebrate it your own way and feel really good about it. 

 

Again, this is another holiday celebrating this Earth and all that is in it.  Joy to the world!

 

Thanks for reading.

 

 

 
October 29, 2006, 8:41 am CST

Definition of Pagan - My Opinion Only

Pagan refers to a variety of non Christian/Jewish/Islamic religions that are usually polytheistic (beliving in Multiple Gods and Goddesses) and nature based.  Many people do not necessarily identify with one specific religion, rather just use the broad term Pagan to define their spiritual path.  Pagan religions are distinct and seperate from one another, and it should not be assumed that they are just different names for the same path. 

 

Common misconceptions:

Pagans worship Satan - The figure of satan is part of the Christian mythos, and those of us who do not follow Christianity do not accept the existance of this being.

Pagans engage in ritual orgies - this may come from when rituals were done inthe nude.  Not all pagans practice this way, and for those who do there is nothing sexual about it.

Pagans have no rule - Wow that would make it easy, but alas we do also have rules.  For most pagans it boils down to one main point "Harm none".  Those two words have as much power as a whole book of rules.

Pagans are a cult trying to recruit people - Pagans believe that each individuals path of spirituality is valid, and no one path is better than any other.  We do not convert or recruit anyone.  Proselytizing is not a practice we follow.

 

 
October 29, 2006, 8:46 am CST

11/01 Is This Normal?

Quote From: mswing10

I've looked it up and can't find any site that defines it the same way.  can someone explain?
If you want, there is a pagan board here on Dr Phil. Just look under current events and then you'll see it. There are a few pagans on these boards.

I'm not Pagan, I'm an atheist, but from what I know it's a very old nature based religion that is very peaceful.
 
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