Topic : 11/03 Shocking Accusations

I have sent a message to Dr. Phil on the subject of the accusations against a father molesting his child, but I'm new to this board and wasn't sure if my comments were in the `discussion' portion so I'll say them again here:

 

It doesn't do any good to rush into quick analysis and judgement..  Doing so only causes one to miss important points that sometimes prove the opposit eof what one thinks initially.  The question is asked `Was this child coached?"  The very fact that the question was asked leads us to a consideration of an aspect of this tragic matter that may not be relevent and cause us not to listen to what the child is saying or (worse) HOW she is expressing herself.

 

There are words that belong with children such as `hurted' (instead of hurt) and `feeled' instead of felt or touched.  In this case the child screams over and over "My Daddy touched my pee-pee!"  I want to ask the reader, as well as Dr. Phil,---WOULD a child of 3 say the word `touched'--as she is screaming hysterically?  if he only touched her, wouldn't she be more likely to say "My Daddy feeled me and I don't like it!"---without the screams?  or would she be more likely to say "My Daddy HURT my pee-pee!" and scream bloody blue murder?  

 

The difference you see is the difference between an ADULT'S use of words and a child's.  I want to ask you to consider---whether a child of three, who is USED to having her father change her diaper (and presumably having to touch her in the process of clean-up, if necessary)--would even consider the rightness or wrongness of a simple touch?  --or even the kiss?  They do not have the sense of morality an adult has.  I know that on one occasion one of my own children approached me--crying--asking me to "kiss it Mummy, kiss it!    "--as they held their genital area.  The child  had fallen astride a fence and wanted Mummy to "kiss it better" as they always believed I could.  Hadn't I ALWAYS kissed every hurt and tear away. no matter what?   The request was completely innocent;  without guile, without cunning.   Was this any different?  How can we be sure?

 

You see, there is more to the awareness of the child's use of words than one might think.  If she was NOT coached into any concept of badness, or wrongness she would not see anything wrong in the touch OR the kiss,  and she would not be crying at all--unless she was severely hurt--and then she would say so.  She would use the word hurt as in  "My Daddy HURT my pee-pee.  But If she was coached she would be more likely to use the adult's word `touched'  that had been given to her in the process of coaching---and each and every time she arrived home with the innocuous "Did Daddy touch you again...Mmnn?  Did he?  Well, you're with Mummy now!  MnnHmmn !  You're safe, now!"  He can't touch you now!"

. 

I think she was most definitely coached.

 

I think she was coached because the hysterics only started as she ARRIVED home.  Being alone with Daddy all the way home didn't seem to get the tears going, somehow.

 

We could say `But what about this Daddy'--what's with him?    Well, talk about Mummy first. 

 

What's with a Mummy who thinks her child is being molested--but lets her husband take the kid into a LOCKED bathroom.  Why locked?  Any parent knows that little kids get changed almost anywhere:  on the floor of the living room, with a blanket under her, on the mother's bed with a waterproof pad for safety--anywhere!    What's with the locked bathroom--and why wasn't the kid screaming THEN?    The only concern then was  "Where's the diaper?  Why are you in there without a diaper?"  No screams, it seems.

 

Who is `the frogman'?  Is he like `THE bogyman' (as in `The bogyman'll get ya!") ?  Who said it?

Whose saying what, and why to this child?

 

But the Dad.  Why can't he answer a straight question with a straight answer?  He said he did the most marujana when he became the father of this little girl.  That he was the `most nervous' then.  Why?  Because he knew he was attracted to young girls?   Because the child represented a danger zone he wanted to avoid?   People are commenting that the father `doesn't seem right', somehow.  He doesn't.   Is this child the victim of molestation?  Is it all a ruse to get an the father out of the picture?  It seems as though it's a little of each, to me.  Things are never completely black and white,  but when the truth lies somewhere in between,  it's very hard to find. 

 

Maybe it's a little of each:  perhaps in that  `grey area' that lies between all black and all white there's a place that says all of it is true.  Could it be that the torn labia, the redness, the locked bathroom door--caused the mothers to intuit what they were afraid to say themselves?  Could it be true, but they needed the child to SAY IT before anyone would believe them?  Could it be they felt they NEEDED to coach the child because of what they felt to be `in the interest' of the child--and in the process did more damage than anyone TO the child?   Is the father guilty--or merely inarticulate? 

 

Go slowly.  Such charges can devastate innocent lives or cause the guilty to slip silently away.  If either happens it will be a bigger tragedy than it already is.

 

 

When a child, no matter what age, says he or she has been touched inappropriately, consider that the child might be brainwashed to say so.  It happens all the time especially in dirty divorces. Dont automatically assume that the child is telling the truth.  Dr. Phil, please investigate parental alienation!!  My husband went through a horrible divorce and his ex wife fought for full custody of their son. Their son was closer to his Dad and she knew this. He divorced her and out of revenge she brainwashed the child to say he had been molested to keep the boy away from his father. After spending nearly $20,000 to clear his name, taking a polygraph, having psychological evaluations, guardian ad litems, lawyers, he was cleared but NO ONE made the mother take any test or polygraphs to say she perpetuated any of these sexual abuse stories.  That boy has been ruined for life at the hands of his mother. He knew about things at the age of 5 that most teenagers dont even know.  Please dont always assume abuse has occured until you explore all avenues and consider the one who is accusing the other is probably the one perpetuating the lies!

 Maybe I missed something...what IS your point? Just what in my comment made you think I thought this child should go with him!!??!!?? IF you had read ANY other of my comments, you would know how much you have misunderstood me

 

THANX

I reserve my comments on my "visions" for obvious reasons.  And I take no drugs for pain except OTC. 

 

Don't you know my heart breaks for little Kaylee??  I think I clearly stated more than once that this child was HURT!  Now interpret that into a vision, my vision and read my posts carefully, and you will see what my visions are.  The child has been hurt physically, mentally and emotionally!

 

You have no idea of the things I see, feel and experience.  I am a 47 year old father of three, with grandchildren.  I've been happily married to a wonderful woman for 27 years, and I have a deep passion for the issue of child abuse! 

 

Let me explain my posts in simple terms for you. 

 

• Polygraphs are mostly accurate, but not 100%.  Under the watchful eye of DR Phil and Co., I do NOT think there is a chance that this test can be corrupted in any way.  But I know for a fact that polygraphs can be corrupted!  I am certain that in this case the facts will be known. You are correct that the odds are not in favor of the tests being inaccurate.
• In general terms, we have to always assume the child is telling the truth, but by the same token be careful not to convict innocent people because spiteful manipulations, generally speaking.  Have you read the posts about false accusations on here, and how children are coached to say things that are not true?
• Do you remember the case back in the eighties, in California where several people went to prison accused of child molestation?  Then years later they were all vindicated after these children who were allegedly molested grew up, and spoke up.  All I'm saying is that we have to be careful.
• If it will make you feel better, the dad is guilty!  But the child is being torn in a tug-of-war, in the middle of  psychological war fare.  I don't blame the mother for her actions.  I think she doesn't realize the gravity of her actions.  I would have taken my child far, far away and made it totally impossible for the child to be in the presence of a child molestor.  As a matter of fact, I did this for my child many years ago.  I didn't play games.  I gave a home, land, everything.  Just gave it ALL up, and moved 120 miles away to prevent someone from being in contact with my child.  I don't regret it!
• Also, the system has failed in this case.  And DR Phil and Co. will prevail in the best interest of the child.  I think I stated that the CPS is not infallible.
• I'm not trying to prove a point with my statement of visions.  I simply stating that I have seen this child terrified and horrified from sexual abuse!  I'm not asking you to believe me, I'm just stating what I feel, think and experience.

What are you doing to help prevent child abuse?

 

I am not easily offended!  And yes, some see me as eccentric!  I can agree with this.  But my point is that everyone should be actively involved in this cause!  And the more we fight, bicker and disagree over the petty things, the more we cripple our senses of urgency and compassion for the victims, the children.

 

I cannot say enough how much it breaks my heart to see this child in so much pain.  This is the reason I am in this campaign, because I cannot stand to see a child hurt.  But, I see a better future for her.  Sexually abused children are scarred for life!  I know this.  It's horrible, and I have emotions that tell me that I should take matters into my own hands.  But I have knowledge that this will only hamper my cause.

 

We have to use good sound judgment in all cases.  I post these philosophies on my web site.  I have my opinions, etc.  But the child should always come first.  But, we have to look at the whole picture!  Again, generally speaking.  I am not referring soley to this case in my posts, but in child abuse cases in general.  I guess I wasn't clear on that?

 

What I was trying to get across is that we are watching a television show, not court T.V.  And although it is all too evident that this man is hiding something, we never know how things will turn out.  All I'm saying is that our judicial system is based on innocent until proven guilty.  And we have not heard all of the facts in this case.  Let's hear all the facts, and then we can pass judgment.  This is reality TV, but entertainment for some, educational for others.  And there are always twists in televion shows, even reality shows.  This is a very delicate situaton. 

 

And whatever judgments you have passed on me, that's fine.  Like I said, I'm thick skinned.  I'm here for a purpose, and that is to try to raise awareness of child abuse, and to try to promote a campaign for this cause.  You have a right to your opinion.

 

I will openly say that I have Clinical Depression, Fibromyaglia and a neck injury.  The depression is under control at this point with no anti-depressants.  I know there is still a major stigma attached to depression.  But I have no reason to hide it.  Many famous people who suffered from depression, or does were and are very successful.  Winston Churchill, Abraham Lincoln, Harrison Ford, Terry Bradshaw to name a few.

 

And this is one philosophy that I have, and maybe it's not so unique, but I think that ALL people have a purpose in life.  It's a joy for me to watch children with disabilities display their unique abilities.  Adults as well.  I think in the case of depression a person does become a little eccentric in his or her ways, and in expressions of feelings, talents, skills, etc.  I think this is something that we as a society need to realize and accept. 

 

Take Vincent Van Gogh. Some of his  paintings were really "different."  They were an expression of his emotions and despair that he could not express other wise.  I express myself through my campaign efforts, posts on DR Phil's boards, and elsewhere.  My words of expression  are not always as thorough as I would like, but my ideals and motivation are clear and for the benefit of our children.

 

In conclusion, maybe your pre-judgements about me stand in your mind.  That's ok.  Maybe you see things a little differently now.  I don't know.  But you proved my point about passing judgement on people without having all of the evidence.  I don't mean this in an ugly way, it's ok to be overly zealous especially when it comes to child abuse.  I am.  But to pass judgement without all the facts is a certain failure of our society and judicial system. 

 

Have a blessed day.

 

djmatt

 

 

 

 

You say "I will tell you this you call child services and their is a kid being abused they will get involved."

 

I do hope you're being sarcastic. Haven't you read any of these posts? Have you read story after story after story of people who were abused or molested or know someone who was and how they were let down by the system of CPS?

 

I do agree with you though that she DID say "THEY touched my pee pee."

 

In the end, I think Dr. Phil will realize his mistake in putting so much faith in CPS. I also think his ultimate goal isn't to prove who did what, but it's to protect this poor little girl and get her the help she needs and will need in the future.

Yes I was wondering the same thing.    :)  

Thank you so much.  The most wisdom I have read on this subject!  I'm criticized for saying that I have "visions" of certain events.  And I hope I am totally wrong in this case.  I stated that I have had few visions, but so far we all accurate. 

 

Maybe this time I will be wrong.  But, I see a child who has been terribly abused!  She is so confused, so traumatized!  It's horrible.  I don't try to see these things, they just pop in my head.  Sometimes I go with them, and sometimes I resist them.

 

I was just glad to see your post.  Your few words make more sense than all of my rambling! 

 

God be with this child, and this family.  And yes, the truth will be known.

 

Thanks again.

 

djmatt

 

 

 

I believe the comment the mother made about CPS just closing her case-  

My daughter came home from her father's house with bruising on her bottom.  The daycare noticed it and reported it to CPS.  I took her to the doctor's office because I thought there might be something medically wrong.  The doctor also suspected child abuse after examining the bruise, and reported it to CPS.  We met with a CPS worker and she attempted to question my shy daughter, who clammed up and would answer.  My daughter would not even answer the CPS worker when she asked my daughter what her name was. 

The CPS worker questioned her father and his wife, and notified me that the case would be closed because my daughter would not say anything, and her father and his wife would not admit to any abuse. 

Thankfully my daughter has not come home with any other bruises:)

Yes Dr. Phil, CPS let some cases fall through the cracks.  And the excuse CPS gives (in my city)is that they do not have enough caseworker for the amount of cases that come through everyday!

GOD BLESS all the children and keep them safe because we cannot depend on anyone else!  

How in the hell can her mother let this innocent little girl go through this? Its obvious that the father is lying and also the mother and grandmother have something to hide as well. I am not one for CPS but I strongly feel that both parents dont need to have her until the issue is resolved. I have two children of my own and Ill be damned if either of them were getting touched in that way by their father I dont know if he would even make it to prison or let alone survive prison. AND if he was accused of molesting our children he would knock someone out for sure. I just hope that the state and county that these people live in put that child in a home where she is safe and secure....That is all for now