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Topic : 11/06 The Lie Detector

Number of Replies: 1236
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Created on : Friday, November 03, 2006, 12:57:52 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Dr. Phil vowed to find out the truth behind accusations that Jeremy molested his 3-year-old daughter, Kaylee. Krista and Bonii, Kaylee’s mom and grandmother, brought videos to Dr. Phil to try to back up their charges against Jeremy, yet Jeremy maintained his innocence, insisting that Kaylee was coached to say bad things about him. Now, both sides are back after taking lie detector tests administered by a highly skilled polygrapher. Have Krista and Bonii been honest with Dr. Phil about their feelings and actions? Did Jeremy pass his lie detector test? Plus, did anyone try to use tactics to defeat the test? Share your thoughts here.

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November 4, 2006, 1:59 pm CST

11/06 The Lie Detector

Quote From: edieangel

i watch Dr. Phil show daily, never miss a show, and I have high respects for the man, but he totally shocked me today. I cannot believe that as smart as Dr. Phil is, that he believes so strongly that what CPS says is is the the absolute truth all of the time. This is so not the case. As a past Rape Crisis Director who worked with not only rape victims, but victims of child sexual and physical abuse and neglegt, and a Grandmother who has fought over and over with the system to get my own grandchildren help....I know for a fact that CPS turns their back on many, many cases of child neglect, abuse, sexual/physical, and emotional. Not all of the time of course, but sadly way too many. In my past professional expierences with them in several states, I have found that a lot depends on the worker who does the initial investigation. If it is a gung ho worker who is smart as a whip...street smart, not so necessary book smart, then you have a fighting chance of getting good help. I have also have in the past dealt with workers that for many different reasons in their own life, let their own personal opinions interfere with their so-called professional opinion, therefore blocking their judgement in making good sound decisions and investigations. Then there is the workers that are just plain (and this goes to either being street smart vs. book smart) not smart enough to look beyond the first impressions, in other words the offenders can outwit the workers very easily, ex: worker calls to set up an interview (stupid in my opinion) offenders have plenty of time to clean up the house, get food in the house, warn children of what to say or not say, and put on the "happy Beaver Family" act. I have seen this over and over and no further visits resulted. End of case, until sadly down the road when something horribly wrong happens to the child. Then  they get involved full speed, but that is too late in my opinion. Not when that could have been derailed if initial reports were taken seriously. Happens all too often sadly.

Secondly, anyone in their right mind can see through the terror in this child that SOMETHING is going on. And for Dr. Phil to say the mother and grandmother is egging on the historonics in the child is really upsetting. What mother would not take that child in her arms and hold her tight, comfort her if the child was that upset, that determined that she did not want to go and making statements that they were hurting her??? My God, read more into what the child is saying, how she is acting and reacting to the situation and less time in making excuses as to why she is doing it. There is something wrong, very wrong when a child is acting that upset like that especially one that young. Those emotions and fears can not be coached into a child that young, not like that. Please help that little baby. Please before it really is too late, and then everyone has to say "If we had only....."

The father, or stepmother for that matter very well could be guilty, and if they are then they should not leave the Dr. Phil stage without being hauled off by the authorities...

however, as i posted before, my husband and I have experienced this same thing all because my stepdaughter told her mother she wanted to live with us & her mother was determined to make sure my husband wouldn't stand a chance in heck of getting full custody by accusing him of abuse. Luckily in our case the woman has so many split personalities (in my personal opinion) that she just can't keep her stories straight & slipped up in an interview with the original investigators & basically said that she made it up. Too bad she drug my stepdaughter into the police station with her to give 'her story.' We found all of this out after the fact from one of the investigators (after the polygraphs, interviews, etc. were all over). One of the main things that supposedly tipped them off that she was lying was that when interviewing my stepdaughter, her mom refused to leave the room & then refused to keep quiet, continually 'correcting' the girls story. They still questioned my husband & me but only used our statements against her. We no longer have anything to do with her or, unfortunately, my step daughter as this woman does not know when to stop. We had the choice of filing for custody (told we'd have 75% chance but she'd still get visitation & we'd STILL have to put up with her, or give up the visits with my stepdaughter & also give up direct contact with the mom. We chose the latter) We've moved THREE times since all of this happened and she is still trying to get our address from our lawyer. Whenever she finds out where we live (in a different town) she just shows up! For the typical reasons of course... in town shopping & couldn't find a store with a washroom, could she use ours please. Stuff like that. It is very, very difficult to go after her for harrassment when there is a child involved. Beleive me, we've tried EVERY angle for the past several years. Our son's school has her full description as she has even tried to show up there! We can't press charges unless she actually tries something. It hasn't counted when she just sits outside in a car or stands on the front lawn.

 

So, it is very possible that a mother can manipulate a child, even a 3 year old. I'm not saying that Kaylee IS in fact being manipulated, however, I don't know any mother (other than that of my stepdaughter) who would allow their child time after time to go with someone when they are screaming and balling like that. Now there is separation anxiety which is different. A mom drops her kindergartener off at school for the first week and she cries bloody murder every morning because she doesn't want to be away from mommy. In cases like that, the teacher, school councellor, etc. would typically advise the mom to leave the child at school even if he/she is still crying. The child will adjust. That is one thing. But if a child (coached for video or not) is screaming and crying that she doesn't want to go with someone because they might hurt her pee pee, that mother should be balling and crying herself (which I didn't hear either Krista or her mother doing) and also refusing to let the daughter go. And after videotaping what she is saying take the tape to the cops, CPS, a lawyer or whoever and say "I know I am breaching the court order by not letting the dad take her but THIS is why I refused!" and then let them deal with it. I certainly would not take a video and send it into a talk show so my poor daughters face could be plastered over millions of television screens! Not to mention the mom should be jumping down the throat of the accused person not saying 'okay I'm putting you down so your accussed molester can take you for 2 unsupervised days and nights. See ya.' ! I know if my child accused someone of doing that to him, that person would NOT be leaving my yard unless black & blue or in handcuffs!

 

My stepdaughter had always been coached by her mom. If the roads were really bad and we could not drive all the way to her house to pick her up because it wasn't safe, her mom would have her call here (we're talking while she was between the ages of 2 -7) and 'cry' that she hates daddy now because he doesn't love her enough to pick her up. We recorded some of these conversations for our lawyer where you can even here her mom in the background telling her to 'sound more sad'. Her mom would even put into her head that we would go to the fair, park etc. without her and almost every other visit we ever had with my stepdaughter she would be pouting and angry at us for doing these fun things without her... even though we never did.

 

It is true that if a child of 3 years old comes up themselves with a story like Kaylee was saying, then it probably is true as they cannot 'make up' a lie like that. A child that age would make up a lie with a more fantasy-type story. It is also true that a child CAN be coached to say things even if they are only 3. Also, there is such anger between the parents as it is, I bet that everyother word Kaylee hears from either household is something negative about the other. It is also quite possible that she has fears and anxieties towards the father & stepmother because she only hears bad things about them so they MUST be bad.

 

There are things that ARE questionable such as the torn labia, but WHY if CPS knew this occured at the dads house and they called the mom at 4am about it, then WHY would they not step in and investigate the dad before allowing the child back there to visit? I know they can be overworked, underworking, negligent at times but THAT is a suspicious injury that would and should raise their eyebrows.

 

I hope that Kaylee is able to get help, which I'm sure Dr. Phil will make certain of. It may turn out that the dad is guilty, however, I'm saying it is possible that the dad is being falsly accussed to some extent. 

 
November 4, 2006, 2:15 pm CST

Cannot Sleep

Quote From: ctuenge

 As a mother and grandmother, I was so disturbed by this show. I'm not a professional, but I do believe that this child is indeed being molested. Dr. Phil, I can tell you that, even though your dealings with CPS have all been positive, you are a professional. Don't just assume that because you have had positive experiences with them, that the average joe has the same or similar experiences. Believe me, I speak from experience myself. Florida's track record, in my opinion, is sorely lacking. Many a child has died at the hands of the parents, to whom these children were returned, after having reports of abuse. Don't tell me that this has not happened...it has.
I saw Dr. Phil yelling at this father, and saying, "what do you expect me to do" (twice), in reference to this child's crying and saying that her father had "touched her pee pee". My question is, "what would you expect a mother and grandmother to do" when this child is hysterically crying and begging her mother to not leave her with the father., and then this child sobbing when she is returned to the mother that her daddy touched her pee pee. I don't need to know much else. If this were my granddaughter, I wouldn't be able to control myself as much as this mother and grandmother did. And for Dr. Phil to think that they were contributing to this child's hysteria, was too much for me. The only thing I see is a mother and grandmother, greatly concerned that this child might be being sexually abused. Why are they being questioned about making false charges against the father. This child's behavior, plus her physical injury to her labis should be reason enough to bring these charges. They should not be faulted at all for responding to the things this little, innocent child is saying, most especially with this particular injury.If you add everything up...the child has said that her father touched her pee pee, kissed her pee pee, locks  himself (why was it necessary to lock the door) and this child in a bathroom to supposedly change her diaper (when he has never done this in the past), tells no one at this birthday party that he's going to change her diaper, and then she winds up at the emergency room with a torn labia. That last thing alone is enough, especially based on all of the other things mentioned. Somebody wake up and protect this child from this horrible abuse. I'm sorry, but all of this is pointing straight at this father. His behavior (incl. the long pauses to answer simple and direct questioning regarding the alleged molestation of this child, was way too odd and strange for my comfort. How about the question about whether or not this man was molested himself, and whether or not he has friends/acquaintences who were molested. What a strange response...he must've repeated this word, "molested" a half a dozen times, at least...very strange response.
I am convinced that this precious little girl is indeed being molested. At least Dr. Phil did get this guy to voluntarily see this child under supervision until he can get to the bottom of this...that's the only reason I can sleep, until the results of these polygraphs are complete. I hope the stepmother actually agrees to this polygraph as well. If those polygraphs come back that the father and/or the stepmother are abusing this child, please somebody tell me that this child wil NEVER again be allowed to be in their presence,  NEVER, EVER again! Why is all of this so obvious to me?

I cannot sleep after watching the first show. I can't get it out of my mind, obsessing about it.

 

This viewer has said the exact things that have crossed my mind, after replaying parts of the episode in my head (and my TiVo). "Molested, molested, molested, molested..." He had to think about whether he put his tongue in her mouth! What kind of answers were those?? He is flat-out lying and it is obvious. He clearly thinks he's smarter than Dr. Phil, and everybody else, including CPS!

I hope it's not too late for Kaylee to lead a normal life--free from fear and free from sick, sick people like her father--and, sadly, MANY others who may someday try/succeed at abusing her.

 

I just feel sick for that poor little girl.

 
November 4, 2006, 2:24 pm CST

Wake up Dr. Phil

I was shocked hearing Dr. Phil's comment about CPS on the show.  I am a huge fan and was surprised that Dr. Phil had such confidence in our system.  I have been involved in the system for 6 years and I to know through much experience that the system just isn't able to handle these types of cases.  The biggest surprise for me was that there was physical evidence of abuse and nothing was done about it.  I dare say that if Dr. Phil's child came home saying, "They touched my peepee" and then there was a hospital record with physical evidence of such, that he would allow his child back into that environment either.

 

I was glad to see the mother and grandmother standing up and fighting to prevent any abuse.  I don't care what Dr. Phil or anyone else says, don't stop fighting for your little girl.  As a mother you know your child.  I didn't think either of you were inappropriate at all.  I also didn't see that they were trying to isolate her from her Father.  I think they were very concerned and had a right to be.

 

I was glad to read other's comments and to see that there are a lot of other people in the system that have had a similar experience as I have.  I hope Dr. Phil will hear our cries and began trying to make a difference in the system.  We can't begin to fix the system until more people are aware of the flaws that are in it.  I know Dr. Phil wants to get to the truth and has the little girls best interest at heart.  But to do this he has to realize what it is truly like for us everyday people fighting for our children.

 

These type of abusers are very, very good at what they do.  They know how to get a child to do everything they say by using fear.  The physcial abuse is horrible, but physical wounds heal.  It is the emotional trauma this child is suffering that is going to affect her for the rest of her life. 

 

 

 

 

 
November 4, 2006, 3:39 pm CST

Sleepless in Fort Worth

Between Dr. Phil & Oprah today (girl who killed her baby) I can't sleep!

 

Krista was 14 when she started "dating" Jeremy...and he was 21???  Call me crazy but why are we questioning whether or not Jeremy is a child molester?  Krista was a child!

 

This guy didn't have contact with his baby until her 2nd birthday & that day he decides he'll take on diaper duty behind a locked door?  There is NO way anyone can convince me that is normal behavior.  Have you ever met a man who volunteers to change the diaper of any child?  ...how about a child they just met?

 

I don't know if Jeremy has molested his child, but he is most definately creepy.  No one has to search their memory to remember if they stuck their tongue in a child's mouth.  When asked if he was molested as a child he responded "NO" immediately...yet for any other question he stalls & moves his hands around "searching" his memory.  CREEPY!!!!!!

 

Yes, Mom & Grandma increase the drama.  Wouldn't you?

 
November 4, 2006, 4:08 pm CST

CPS failed me too

I'm 38 years old now and still remember the nightmare experience I had with CPS.  When I was 16 years old I went to the local sheriffs office and gave testimony in great detail of my sexual abuse.  CPS stopped by my parents house, asked if it was true, they denied it and the case was closed. 

Dr. Phil, your experience with CPS is as a professional...not as a victom.  To say that you've seen them step up 100% is probably true - who wouldn't if they got a call from Dr. Phil.  But when it is a young girl - just trying to save her brother from the same horrible abuse - you get blown off.  I was calm, rational, and gave a detailed report that my sister backed up with her own report of what had happened.

I'm sure there are good reports and good things they've done - but to give them credit like that is irresponsible and frankly - hurts. 

I do think that the only one here telling the truth is the mother.  She's made mistakes by responding the way she has, but I don't think she's out to destroy anyone.  I think the grandmother has her own agenda, as does the step-mother.  BTW...why is the step-mother picking the child up instead of the father?  I don't know if the father is guilty or not, but he is scared and that is apparent.  I think he's been bullied into the lie detector test and knows he'll be painted guilty if he refuses.  Even if he is innocent, I don't think he'll pass because he doubts his innocence now.  

 
November 4, 2006, 4:12 pm CST

I can't believe this!!!

I'm so sorry, but if this father is proven innocent I'll eat it!! There's no way that he is telling the truth, and I'm willing to bet a million dollars on that! There's no doubt in my mind that he is a lying SOB! I hope he's sent to prison the minute the real truth comes out!
 
November 4, 2006, 4:22 pm CST

He Was Right About Kaylee

   SHE (the child) is the MAIN concern here. I honestly think the mother and grandmother are trying to help the child BUT aren't doing it properly. The mother herself is still just a kid.

The father was lying through his teeth when he was one on one with Dr. Phil. I think he wants to confess but his fear won't let him.

Let me say this: I don't think the guy is evil at all. I think he has a sickness and MUST be helped. But his fear of getting into trouble is stopping him from making ANY progress. Like Dr.Phil says: "You cannot change what you don't acknowledge". And this guy is so stinkin scared he's shakin and telling Dr.Phil he gets nervous with those things" Referring to lie detectors. So he's already basically saying he expects to fail it because he's nervous. He's giving excuses because he's SCARED OUT OF HIS MIND for what he's done to that precious little girl.  Let's hope he gets the help he desperately needs.

 
November 4, 2006, 4:24 pm CST

WHY LOCK THE BATHROOM DOOR?

  I forgot to say this in my last post. Why did he have to lock the bathroom door? He's in there with a toddler! Can he explain that?

His body language, actions, justifications, explanations are all weird and DO NOT add up at ALL.

 
November 4, 2006, 5:30 pm CST

FALSE ALLEGATIONS

I believe the accusations are false and the woman are paranoid and are getting on with histrionics to manipulate and get rid of the ex.  Paranoid people are dangerous.
 
November 4, 2006, 6:13 pm CST

Verbal Vomit

Quote From: phoebegurl

   SHE (the child) is the MAIN concern here. I honestly think the mother and grandmother are trying to help the child BUT aren't doing it properly. The mother herself is still just a kid.

The father was lying through his teeth when he was one on one with Dr. Phil. I think he wants to confess but his fear won't let him.

Let me say this: I don't think the guy is evil at all. I think he has a sickness and MUST be helped. But his fear of getting into trouble is stopping him from making ANY progress. Like Dr.Phil says: "You cannot change what you don't acknowledge". And this guy is so stinkin scared he's shakin and telling Dr.Phil he gets nervous with those things" Referring to lie detectors. So he's already basically saying he expects to fail it because he's nervous. He's giving excuses because he's SCARED OUT OF HIS MIND for what he's done to that precious little girl.  Let's hope he gets the help he desperately needs.

I agree that the father did fail his one on one conversation with Dr. Phil, as a former police officer and having done several investigations and being trained on how to read suspects and their actions.  Did you catch the father say that the lie detector would bring out what he has even done in his sleep, because he sometimes sleep walks.  Well, I took that as this is what the father is going to use as his alibi when the test proves he molested his own daughter.  I caught other stuff, like the direction the father looked when he was telling the truth and which way he looked when he was lying.  If you are telling the truth, you will look in the direction or up towards the sky towards which dominant hand you are.  If you are looking for your answer towards your non-dominant hand, then you are more than likely telling a lie.  The father whom obviously  is right handed, looked to the left when he was coming up with an answer for the tongue/cake in the mouth question.  And the father tried to never answer Dr. Phil's question about it, til Dr. Phil asked it directly with a yes or no.
 
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