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Topic : 11/07 The Lie Detector, Part 2

Number of Replies: 1981
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Created on : Friday, November 03, 2006, 12:59:27 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
In the dramatic conclusion of a three-part series, Dr. Phil continues exploring details of the alleged molestation of 3-year-old Kaylee. Krista, Bonii, Jeremy and Jeremy’s new wife, Danielle, all return to hear the shocking polygraph results. Is there something Jeremy will admit to doing that he is ashamed of? Then, a highly skilled polygrapher shares his thoughts about the outcome of the test. Dr. Phil assesses both sides, and discusses what needs to take place with Kaylee now.  Talk about the show here.

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December 5, 2006, 5:09 pm PST

11/07 The Lie Detector, Part 2

Quote From: sharene

There is a huge shadow of doubt cast over the father.  WHY are Kaylee's visits not supervised until this whole mess is sorted out?  I just don't understand the "when in doubt, do nothing" platitude, does NOT work under these circumstances.  This little girl should have the protection of the community and courts.  She has neither.  They are, in effect, all taking her hand and skipping her into the lions den.

 

Who is taking responsibility here?

 

Supervised visits are paramount, until Jeremy is cleared.  In fact, why is Jeremy not INSISTING on supervised visits, to help dispell any doubts or guilt about himself?    Until he insists on supervised visitation....he is casting a pall over himself.  An innocent man would insist on supervision till it was all sorted out.... in order to stop any further accusations.

 

Someone needs to be pulled up on the carpet for not taking responsibility for this travesty.

 

 

I believe that the reason why Kaylee's visits are not supervised right now, is because the system sucks big time.  CPS did nothing to help her for one thing.  They even went as far to say that she couldn't tell the difference between reality and fantasy.  How sad is that? No three year old can come up with what she had said.  And yes, I too question why he wouldn't insist on supervised visitation.  If you ask me, Jeremy is guilty. 

 
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December 5, 2006, 6:17 pm PST

Sexually Predictor Question??

Sexually Predicter Question I need some input so hope you all can help. Does it make you a Sexually Predicter or what does it make you if you look at all sorta porno including kiddy porno, like reading it, looking at it, fansizing about it but never never acts on it and never will? What does that make you? Thanks Kevin
 
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December 6, 2006, 8:17 am PST

Watch it, Kevin

Quote From: nascar

Sexually Predicter Question I need some input so hope you all can help. Does it make you a Sexually Predicter or what does it make you if you look at all sorta porno including kiddy porno, like reading it, looking at it, fansizing about it but never never acts on it and never will? What does that make you? Thanks Kevin

A criminal? A pervert? Definitely, not a good predictor.

 

If one does all those things as stated but would NEVER act on them? Hmm, how can one NEVER act on just viewing child porn stuff? Fantasizing being with a child? Question should be, How long will it be before acting on the fantasy? Fantasy becomes a grim reality when one notes that there are lots of young, innocent human beings out there.

 

Watch it, Kevin. You, or whomever you are speaking for,  are stepping outside your legal and moral boundaries.

 
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December 6, 2006, 8:50 am PST

11/07 The Lie Detector, Part 2

Quote From: losinend

A criminal? A pervert? Definitely, not a good predictor.

 

If one does all those things as stated but would NEVER act on them? Hmm, how can one NEVER act on just viewing child porn stuff? Fantasizing being with a child? Question should be, How long will it be before acting on the fantasy? Fantasy becomes a grim reality when one notes that there are lots of young, innocent human beings out there.

 

Watch it, Kevin. You, or whomever you are speaking for,  are stepping outside your legal and moral boundaries.

It is illegal to look at child porn, as it is also immoral and unacceptable. If you are someone you know is doing this........PLEASE get help now while you still can.

 
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December 6, 2006, 10:06 am PST

Attorney for the child - recommendation

Quote From: worriedgrandma

do you know which state Ducote practices in?

 

Very good advise I forwarded to the staff

Richard Ducote resides in New Orleans, LA.  However, he is licensed to practice in more than 40 states in the United States...and he travels and has taken some cases pro bono.  He is also available for consulting...and for deposing witnesses. 

 

Richard Ducote is not just an attorney but he is a mover-and-shaker.  He has helped change child abuse laws all over the country, has successfully won major Supreme Court cases, and has even written the words of bills that later became enacted as laws in several states to protect  children.  He will NOT represent either parent.  Just the child.   Just google his name and you will find a wealth of  the good work he has done out there looking out for our children.   He's the best!   Andrew Vachss, NY attorney , is also wonderful...but I think he only practices now in NY.

 

Richard Ducote helped in my child's case immensely.  I live in Maryland.  My child's case resulted in no visitation at all...not even supervised.  She was age 5 at the time of discovery.  No visitation was allowed because of the extent of the abuse and her emotional damage.  It was also because her father refused to participate in any type of meaningful therapy. 

 

Sometimes supervised visitation is still beneficial to the children if they still have a relationship with their father that has some positive aspects, but until the child is much older or an adult, the visitation MUST be kept supervised...and not just supervised but supervised with a trained therapist who treats child sexual abuse.  Many states don't have this kind of supervision available...and often times supervision falls on family members of the abuser...which is not a good idea!

 

I want to say that the only people who KNOW for sure whether Kaylee has been abused...are Jeremy...and Kaylee.   These cases are very dificult to prove...which is why KAYLEE NEEDS HER OWN ATTORNEY, ONE EXPERIENCED IN CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE, who can represent her best interests.   Again, it's key that her attorney have experience and training in this type of case...a run of the mill, generic attorney will NOT do.  They need to know how to get in evidence that is otherwise dismissed.  Every state has special hearsay laws (e.g. "excited utterances") that can be used to get children's statements and behavior in as evidence.  But, it's tricky...and the attorney needs to be persuasive...and be able to educate the court and judge in these cases. 

 

The truth could take years to sort out...or it may never be clear...but the courts and laws need to error on the side of safety...supervised visitation...until the dust settles...  This may violate Jeremy's freedom as a parent...but Kaylee's safety and protection need to be paramount....period.

 
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December 6, 2006, 10:11 am PST

Attorney for the child - recommendation

Quote From: worriedgrandma

do you know which state Ducote practices in?

 

Very good advise I forwarded to the staff

Richard Ducote resides in New Orleans, LA.  However, he is licensed to practice in more than 40 states in the United States...and he travels and has taken some cases pro bono.  He is also available for consulting...and for deposing witnesses. 

 

Richard Ducote is not just an attorney but he is a mover-and-shaker.  He has helped change child abuse laws all over the country, has successfully won major Supreme Court cases, and has even written the words of bills that later became enacted as laws in several states to protect  children.  He will NOT represent either parent.  Just the child.   Just google his name and you will find a wealth of  the good work he has done out there looking out for our children.   He's the best!   Andrew Vachss, NY attorney , is also wonderful...but I think he only practices now in NY.

 

Richard Ducote helped in my child's case immensely.  I live in Maryland.  My child's case resulted in no visitation at all...not even supervised.  She was age 5 at the time of discovery.  No visitation was allowed because of the extent of the abuse and her emotional damage.  It was also because her father refused to participate in any type of meaningful therapy. 

 

Sometimes supervised visitation is still beneficial to the children if they still have a relationship with their father that has some positive aspects, but until the child is much older or an adult, the visitation MUST be kept supervised...and not just supervised but supervised with a trained therapist who treats child sexual abuse.  Many states don't have this kind of supervision available...and often times supervision falls on family members of the abuser...which is not a good idea!

 

I want to say that the only people who KNOW for sure whether Kaylee has been abused...are Jeremy...and Kaylee.   These cases are very dificult to prove...which is why KAYLEE NEEDS HER OWN ATTORNEY, ONE EXPERIENCED IN CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE, who can represent her best interests.   Again, it's key that her attorney have experience and training in this type of case...a run of the mill, generic attorney will NOT do.  They need to know how to get in evidence that is otherwise dismissed.  Every state has special hearsay laws (e.g. "excited utterances") that can be used to get children's statements and behavior in as evidence.  But, it's tricky...and the attorney needs to be persuasive...and be able to educate the court and judge in these cases. 

 

The truth could take years to sort out...or it may never be clear...but the courts and laws need to error on the side of safety...supervised visitation...until the dust settles...  This may violate Jeremy's freedom as a parent...but Kaylee's safety and protection need to be paramount....period.

 
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December 6, 2006, 9:24 pm PST

Daughter's reaction

To find the truth I think we should look to the daughter's reaction.  I believe it was on the first show when the mother was holding her and she was crying and saying her Dad touched her.  If the mother or grandmother told her to say those things, she would not be crying so hard, she would just say, "Daddy touched my peepee."   Unless she had been through those awful things,  at three years old she would not understand that she should be so upset.  I wish I could meet this "dad" in an alley, I was molested as a toddler.  It might not be the right thing, but he deserves to be punnished, I just hope the courts step up and protect this child.  I also have a three year old daughter and am very overprotective, I feel terrible for this mother, and hope she finds a way to help her daughter!

 
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December 6, 2006, 10:44 pm PST

You mean the daughters coached reaction

Quote From: mandyos

To find the truth I think we should look to the daughter's reaction.  I believe it was on the first show when the mother was holding her and she was crying and saying her Dad touched her.  If the mother or grandmother told her to say those things, she would not be crying so hard, she would just say, "Daddy touched my peepee."   Unless she had been through those awful things,  at three years old she would not understand that she should be so upset.  I wish I could meet this "dad" in an alley, I was molested as a toddler.  It might not be the right thing, but he deserves to be punnished, I just hope the courts step up and protect this child.  I also have a three year old daughter and am very overprotective, I feel terrible for this mother, and hope she finds a way to help her daughter!

You should call that the clearly coached reaction the mother got from her daughter on tape.  How convenient.
 
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December 7, 2006, 5:28 am PST

Concerned for the child.

I am neither a judge nor a jury and I think that is where people are missing the mark in this case.  In my opinion and everyone else is entitled to their own, but in mine I think we protect this child at all costs until it is proven or disproven.  I am the mother of two children and an aunt to several small nieces and nephews and I can tell you that if these accusations were made against me I would do anything possible to make sure that the childs best interest was at heart.  Instead of going on a rampage or trying to vindicate myself; my priority would be with the children.  Make sure they are safe, don't play an emotional tug of war with them, protect them at all costs.  The child in this case is being paraded and I disagree with that.  If she is being molested then something needs to be done and everyone needs to be held accountable including law enforcement and CPS.  Living in a small town myself I do understand what the mother is talking about, and hold a position in which I must report any indicators that abuse maybe occurring.  And I must agree that in my county (and it is only my county that I speak for) that the workers are improperly trained and uneducated and seem to have the wrong agenda at heart.  There have been times that they just brushed it off when something really needed to be done, so yes I think America needs to look at CPS and hold them accountable, one child slipping through the cracks is one too many.  But back to the matter at hand.  This child needs protection.  If you are innocent and you have your child's best interest at heart then agree and follow through with supervised visits until everything is cleared after all it is the child that we are concerned for right?!  And to both parents this is not about YOU!!!  Protect that child, don't do this in front of her and don't use her like a yo-yo!  If she has not been molested I can tell you from just watching the show that she has been subjected to things that she should not have been by both parties.  You both should stop worrying about proving the other wrong and making each other look and bad and focus on that precious Gift from God that you have been entrusted with.  Don't involve her in adult matters, don't argue in front of her, and don't coach her and I think both parents are guilty of this.  I hope for the sake of this child that Jeremy is innocent, but both of you need to back off of this vendetta and focus on Kaylee after all she is why you are here?  Isn't she!?

 
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December 9, 2006, 8:31 am PST

outraged

I am completely outraged about this show and frankly I think Dr. Phil was off the mark on this one. He interrigated the complainant (the mother and granddaugher) for everything when all they're trying to do is save this poor girl from this obvious sick person. I'm sure if it were his daughter or granddaughter he would do everything in his power to put this man away or at least keep her away from the father. He said that he wasn't sure he believed the mother that child protective services blew her off. Come on what planet is he from?? I'm from MI and let me tell you he's obviously never heard of Ricky Holland. This little boy was completely over looked by the system and unfortunately he was murdered. Everyone knows the CPS is completely understaffed and maybe over worked or desensitized or whatever. There are absolutely problems with MI CPC system. Dr. Phil kept hammering at her and her mother and basically let the accused off the hook. Why? Why didn't he hammer him and ask him why he agreed to have supervised visits and then changed his mind? Dr. Phil didn't even go after him on that. Also, the guy was 21 when he was with the mother and she was 14, right there that tells the guy is sick. I just can't believe that she's having a hard time going after this sicko and Dr. Phil chewed out her and the mother for doing whatever they felt they could to get someone to listen. I hope they nail this guy to the wall. Maybe the mother and the grandmother haven't went about it in the way they should've but if it were my daughter I would do whatever it takes to protect my child even if that meant going to jail. Hopefully they will get this guy and the poor little girl will have a chance to get some help and move on with her life.
 
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