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Topic : 03/07 When Too Much is ... Too Much

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Created on : Friday, November 10, 2006, 09:20:25 am
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 11/15/06) Imagine discovering that your next-door neighbor owns over 200 cats. Ray and Dennis never thought their neighbor, Kristy, would let her pet collection get that big. Once friends, the three are now in a nasty and vindictive war because of the felines. Ray and Dennis say Kristy's property is one big, disgusting litter box, and they want Kristy to get rid of her cats. Kristy says she'll never part with her "cat sanctuary." Are Ray and Dennis playing dirty in order to run Kristy out of town? When is it too much, and where do you draw the line in the litter box? Then, Mike says his wife, Lori, keeps everything from used envelopes to empty food jars and medicine bottles, because she "might need it" in the future. He is ready to take desperate measures to put a stop to this. Lori says the thought of throwing her stuff out is her worst nightmare. Is Mike guilty of making nasty bribes to get his wife to change? What's really behind Lori's habit for hoarding? Tell us what you think!

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November 15, 2006, 1:46 am PST

11/15 When Too Much is ... Too Much

Quote From: jaak58

Oh my,

People just dont know when to say enough.  I have 32 cats and 7 dogs. I dont know either.  But theres a difference in me and this person. There are cat collectors and there are trash collectors and then theres  sensible and common sense.

All 32 cats are spayed, all are up to date on vacinnes, all have been rescued from various places death row at the local pound. The humane society and then there are those who get dropped off.  But I have the common sense to get them fixed, and keep up witht he litter boxes, and it is not easy, It is very very costly. I would love to take the money I spend a month on vet care and food and litter and spend it on something else but I dont I treat these animals like my children. Whom I have 3. Last trip to the pound was suposed to be 1 dog ended up being 3. I work part time at a large chain resturant, mu husband is an HVAC tech. We live in a modest  home with a very modest income.  My neighbors complain as well, but they dont complain when the cats are ridding the yards of rats and moles, and the sort. I live around people who drive cars worth lots less then mine but they complain.  I would move if I could right now I cant. But rest asured there are people out there who do care, and who really do take care. It is very costly and theres nobody that wants to help nobody hands me anything. But I make sure that everyone has and is taken care of. I rescued a mother cat early this summer who had a litter, by the time I got to her she was already pregnant again. So having the second litter with me, I took her to the vet at exactly 8 weeks and it is a good thing I did, she had a 8 week old mummified fetus still inside her rotting, and she was lucky to be alive. There were no physical signs, th ekittens she did have had a hard time and now it is understood why. But if she would have been left with her previous owner who couldnt remember to feed them and who had never given her vet care she would be dead. This cat is about 8 years old, do you know how many kittens shes likely had? How many they in turn have produced. I heard about her and the owner didnt hesitate to hand her over. So she gave me 9 kids plus herself.  But I love them all, I take care of them all, and I dont need anyone to hold my hand and tell me to change the litter boxes and to take them to the vet. 32 is alot of cats in a residential area, 7 dogs in my backyard is alot of purina dog chow but i do it.  this woman needs to get a clue shes not helping anything, not herself nor the animals. She is a collector, of live animals and collectors should be left to non living non breathing things.  I feel for the animals especually if theres no regular vet check ups and I can only imagine what the house would smeel like. I go a long ways to make sure the yard doesnt get over run and the house doesnt stink. Her nfighbors do have a legit complaint. But theres more then this person out there that is doing this.

  

I think that you are in serious denial.  39 animals is NOT healthy.  I noticed the cat in the picture is on your kitchen counter.  It is not sanitary to have animals walk on surfaces where you prepare food.  I have one cat and keep a very clean house.  However, even with just one cat there is constant shedding of hair so I have to sweep everyday and still don't get all the hair.   You may not be the typical animal hoarder but you very well could be on your way.  Why do you feel that you need to come to the rescue of every animal hardluck story.  Why didn't you just become a foster home for adoptable pets, or try to find loving homes for these animals so you wouldn't be overrunned by them? 

 

I'm not trying to sound mean but I think that you are lying to yourself as to why you feel the need to take on all these animals.  And you also said that you don't treat these animals like your children.  Yet later you talk about a pregnant 8 year cat that....'gave me 9 kids plus herself.'  Sounds to me like you consider them your children.  I honestly think that you are in denial about your need to have so many animals.

 

 

 
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November 15, 2006, 4:53 am PST

11/15 When Too Much is ... Too Much

Quote From: sliderkta

I had a grandma who owned 100 cats at any given time in her home. She was a Wiccan and her goddess was Bast, the Egyptian cat goddess. All her cats were treated as human beings because they were seen as the goddess' herself. The animals were fed, watered, and given medical care. Most had come from abusive homes (like her white cat, "Blue Eyes") and others were feral. All of the felines were unusually calm around her, but the animals became wild with anyone my grandma didn't like (like my mom's extended family).

 

When my family visited for Thanksgiving in 1991, I actually witness her giving the cats a Thanksgiving offering, which was a full sized, cooked turkey. Once the cats were satisfied, we were allowed to eat. Sadly, this disgusted my mom, who had been raised Catholic and later became a Fundementalist Christian. Because of my mom, my family was forced to celebrate Thanksgiving at my Uncle Leo's, where we had tamales instead of turkey.

 

Anyways, it's not much difference from people in India worshipping the cow.

 

On another note, it is a fact that some pagans and Wiccans still hide their religion for fear of discrimination, so when I see a situation like this, I can't help but wonder if this person is a neo-pagan or Wiccan.

 

 

 you should check out the debateing among religions  board it's under news and current events 2nd pg.

Anyway, I've known people like that too and it is kinda like the cow worship in India. remember in India those cows run lose and do cause problems

 
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November 15, 2006, 6:15 am PST

well at least the woman with over 250 cats is looking in the wright direction by seeking dr phils help ><

Too Many Cats: A Call for Compassion
by Marie Hartwell-Walker, Ed.D.
 
From my files:

When the Board of Health went into the home, they discovered 38 cats and three dogs living in squalor with an elderly brother and sister. Feces and urine covered the floor. Most of the animals were sick and dirty. But their owners insisted that they loved their animals and that they did a good job caring for them.

When Mary, age 50, married Bill, age 58, she knew he loved cats and that he had quite a few. She wasn't prepared for cats on the counters, cats in their bed, cats on the table when they had meals, and cats having first rights to every chair. She was even less happy with money going to special cat food instead of bills and the amount of time every day that Bill devoted to talking to his cats instead of paying attention to her. When she complained, Bill said, "If you try to separate me from my cats, you will have to leave." After five months of trying unsuccessfully to get him to change, she filed for divorce.

A 48-year-old woman was discovered to have over 70 cats, many of them ill, living in her home. “I’m the Mother Theresa for cats,” she replied when asked why she had so many. She went on to explain that over the years she had rescued each of the animals because it was sick, injured, or a stray. She was convinced that only she could provide the care they needed.

The neighbors of an elderly woman complained of a horrible smell coming from her third floor apartment. When police went to investigate, they found dozens of cats. Too frail to get litter up to her walk-up apartment or to change the boxes, their owner had trained the cats to use her former bedroom as a giant litter box. She insisted that the animals were like children to her and that they were the only beings that had ever made her feel truly loved.
It’s remarkable how many people have heard stories like these! And yet, there is little in the psychiatric literature about the phenomenon of over-accumulating pets. But I’ve found that when I talk about it, often enough the listener knows someone who knew someone who had so many animals that they overwhelmed her ability to care for them. Usually, these situations come to the attention of Boards of Health, animal rescue organizations, and the legal system instead of the mental health system. But studies now show that many, if not most, of the people who create a lifestyle that is overrun by animals are mentally ill.

Our communities need to reconsider how these cases are handled. Often, a Board of Health will condemn the home, euthanize the animals, and perhaps take the owners to court for destruction of property and/or cruelty to animals. The owner is then left to cope with the loss of the animals, the loss of her or his home, and the loss of the organizing principle (the relationship with the animals) that has kept her or him marginally functional. The experience is devastating. Sometimes it results in homelessness and an increase in the symptoms of mental illness.

When a Lot of Animals is NOT a Problem

There certainly are people who live their lives surrounded by animals and who don’t have problems with it. Farm families, for example, often have dozens of barn cats to keep the rodent population in control. These animals aren’t pets and the families don’t attribute special qualities to them or develop special relationships with them. They are simply a part of farm life.

Other people are truly cat or dog lovers and have many pets. These people take good care of the animals and maintain a balanced life that includes self-care, work, friends, and family. Although very fond of their pets, they don't let their relationships with the animals dominate their lives to the exclusion of people and activities.

Still other animal lovers find a way to make a living based on their passion for animals. Professions that are a positive expression of caring for animals include being a breeder or a veterinarian, running a stable, or managing a shelter for homeless cats and dogs. In all cases, these professionals provide appropriate care and have a realistic understanding of the relationship between themselves and their animals.

When Multiple Pets May Indicate a Mental Illness

People whose lives are unmanageable due to the number of animals that share their home are usually suffering from some form of mental illness. Symptoms of mental illness may include some combination of the following:

The individual believes that she or he is offering the animals exceptional care despite the objective evidence that many are ill, malnourished, dirty, and/or dying;


The individual sees the animals as children or siblings and looks to them for love he or she never found with other people;


The individual believes that she or he has a special ability to communicate directly with the animals or that there is a spiritual connection with them;


The individual feels compelled to bring home any stray or injured animal, believing that only she or he can give it adequate care;


The individual's home is so disorganized and cluttered with animals and useless objects that it is impossible to function within it; and/or


The individual fails to recognize that the condition of the home is a health risk for people and animals alike.
What Can Be Done? A Call for Compassion

Condemning the building and killing the animals solves the immediate problem for the community, but it does so at a price. Often people who collect animals are surprisingly functional in other ways. Many hold jobs and manage money reasonably. But when they lose their animals and homes, they fall apart. Often these people have no relatives who want to take them in and few resources for starting over. They then become the charge of either the mental health system, the legal system, or both.

A more compassionate approach to the care of these individuals would result in lower human and economic costs. Such an approach might include these elements:

Recognizing that the problem is born of illness, not of rebellion, carelessness, irresponsibility, or a desire to act out. If this were the case, the first response would include mental health workers as well as the Board of Health and police.


Making treatment available as mental health researchers and practitioners develop more understanding of the phenomenon and models for treatment. Psychotherapy and perhaps some medication can help these individuals keep their homes, keep at least some of their animals, and manage their lives. These people need to be helped into appropriate treatment.


Arranging support to help these individuals manage their pets and keep their homes. Deinstitutionalization of the mentally ill has resulted in the development of many excellent community-based services. If we see these people as ill, we need to be willing to provide them with the same supports and direct help (outreach workers, housekeepers, case managers, representative payees) that our communities provide to people with other diagnoses.
There are some communities, especially small towns where the "cat lady" is a town character, where the local authorities try to work with the situation rather than take radical steps to simply end it. We have much to learn by studying the outcomes of these efforts. More research is needed to determine the most effective ways to help.

My guess is that we don't yet know how many people are suffering because they accumulate too many animals. It is, after all, a quiet illness. Unless the situation becomes so out-of-hand that someone makes a report to authorities, it can go on for years and years before anyone notices. By then, the home can become uninhabitable. We need to find ways to identify the problem early and to redefine it as an issue for treatment, not simply an issue for social control.

 
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November 15, 2006, 6:23 am PST

11/15 When Too Much is ... Too Much

Quote From: sliderkta

I had a grandma who owned 100 cats at any given time in her home. She was a Wiccan and her goddess was Bast, the Egyptian cat goddess. All her cats were treated as human beings because they were seen as the goddess' herself. The animals were fed, watered, and given medical care. Most had come from abusive homes (like her white cat, "Blue Eyes") and others were feral. All of the felines were unusually calm around her, but the animals became wild with anyone my grandma didn't like (like my mom's extended family).

 

When my family visited for Thanksgiving in 1991, I actually witness her giving the cats a Thanksgiving offering, which was a full sized, cooked turkey. Once the cats were satisfied, we were allowed to eat. Sadly, this disgusted my mom, who had been raised Catholic and later became a Fundementalist Christian. Because of my mom, my family was forced to celebrate Thanksgiving at my Uncle Leo's, where we had tamales instead of turkey.

 

Anyways, it's not much difference from people in India worshipping the cow.

 

On another note, it is a fact that some pagans and Wiccans still hide their religion for fear of discrimination, so when I see a situation like this, I can't help but wonder if this person is a neo-pagan or Wiccan.

 

 

I don't think the issue here is cats themselves.  Almost all of the people commenting are cat lovers.  I'm a cat lover myself.  The issue is that there are 200 cats.

 

The lady on this show needs to come back to earth.  She says she won't adopt them out, but if the law finally does come down on her and seize her cats, what does she think is going to happen to them?  They're going to go to the pound and they will again be at risk of being euthanized.  She's not saving them if she's causing herself legal problems in the process; she's putting them at risk.  She needs to get this under control and find a workable, legal, way to deal with it that does not cause a public nuisance.

 
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November 15, 2006, 6:51 am PST

TOO MANY

Let me start by saying that I am an avid lover of all animals.  I have a cat adopted from a shelter, a dog acquired because the owner had no time for it, 2 chinchillas (also acquired) and 10 ducks of various breeds most of which were rescued from a life in cages.  They are so spoiled that they knock and quack at my door when they are hungry.  Various visiting wildlife populate my pond.  Even injured animals and birds find their way here.  They seem to know I have the resources to help them by having access to vets and animal rehabers.  So my opinion is not for the lack of love of pets.  However, 200 + cats is too many not to have proper housing, feeding facilities or Vet care.  It's not impossible to do though.  Please check out PEACE PLANTATION ANIMAL SANCTUARY OF NEW YORK.  This is a beautiful old farm restored and which gives a home to 300 + cats.  They have an absolutely beautiful living arrangement for them and some other homeless animals.  ( I adopt my cats from Here).  They have on premises Vet care as well.  All Cats are spayed or neutered as soon as they can be and before they are adopted.  They also offer 30 day free vet care after adoption.  If you can't actually have a pet cat, you can adopt and pay for the care of 1 or more there.  These wonderful people even went down and brought back 49 cats from the devastation of HURRICANE KATRINA.  By the way, every one of those cats has a name and their own personality.

 

If she really wants to love and maintain these loving cats then, she needs to do it the right way.  Not only will she benefit, the neighbors will benefit and so will those precious furry friends. 

 

Best of luck.

 
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November 15, 2006, 7:03 am PST

When it interferes...

It's ok to love animals, but before anyone starts to 'collect' them, first check with your town/county regulations and see what is the legal capacity and health laws pertaining to them.  This way, you won't be bothering neighbors & vice verse. aAs for hoarding, it's just plain clutter. Get help with organizing. Do projects one at a time...it's less stressful. Best wishes to all.
 
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November 15, 2006, 7:22 am PST

Too Much Stuff

 I so identified with the woman who's house was messy. It wasn't piled to the ceilings like some who are obviously seriously ill. It just had stuff everywhere. My husband says that the next house we get all the surfaces are going to be rounded because I fill up every flat spot. The problem I have is that if I can't see it I don't remember to do it. As a consequence everything is out and my poor husband can't see his things because he can't find it unless it's the only thing out. I wish I could change my habits and become a person who is neat and organized all the time. Where can people like me go for help?
 
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November 15, 2006, 7:34 am PST

Feral Cat overpopulation

I am on the board of a group in Ohio with the primary focus being to help control cat overpopulation through non-lethal humane management efforts. Feral cats are greatly misunderstood. They are not adoptable. 200 is entirely too many cats. The fact she has had them spayed and neutered is the best thing she can do for them. Hopefully the attorney and viewers will help her with ideas to relocate some of the cats to an appropriate outdoor location.

Education about the enormity of pet overpopulation and the true nature of feral cats, which are not the same as stray cats, is key to beginning to put an end to pet overpopulation.

I encourage anyone who watched this show to find out about feral cats and Trap-Neuter-Return, the process which is growing in popularity to try and get a handle on the problem.

 
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November 15, 2006, 7:40 am PST

HOARDING ANIMALS

I just read the transcript of today's show and I am a little surprised that Dr. Phil did not offer any professional help to the woman who is hoarding cats.  After reading about the show and some of the other posts about hoarding being a mental illness it should be pretty obvious that what she is doing has nothing to do with loving animals.  I consider myself a true animal lover - I have owned two cats and never more that one dog at a time - and it is very worrisome to me that those poor cats are suffering the consequences of an unchecked mental condition. The tone of some of the phone messages that she left for her neighbors sounds like she has also issues with anger and lacks communication skills when interacting with people.  None of this is a very healthy approach to life. 
 
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November 15, 2006, 7:57 am PST

I love both cats and dogs but...

200 cats are way too much let alone the medical expences to keep them healthy. If the cat lover on the show was running a licensed  home for pets/animals then I can see this lady having 200 cats. I watched a show on (Animal Planet i think it was) and was HORRIFIED that over 200 (if not more) cats was pulled from the house ( some dead and died in between basement cracks and floorboards). The place was kept in very HORRID conditions and they(tha animal rescuers) said the smell was unbearable. It took them nearly 4 days of non-stop  to clear out the house. THAT IS JUST INSANE IMHO.

 

One of the posters on the board(cant remember the  name sorry) has about 49 cats and  from what I read takes good care of them(providing them with a clean enviroment and health care), it takes ALOT of work to do but CAN be done. That to me, is a cat lover!(in a very good sence) and from what I read she in turn can keep track of all of them and KNOWS which ones are in need of medical attention.

 

There is a thing called hoarders and I feel this woman on the show with 200 cats is one. From what I saw on the show preveiws, she claims that the neighbor killed her cats. I dont beleive that in the least. I think she just dont remember what all cats she has and lost track of them (if they happen to run free outside) they can get any type of disease from anywhere, even pneumonia and died if left untreated and not caught on time. I think she just wants SOMEONE to blame for her irresponsibilities and laying it on her neighbor.

 

just my thoughts!

 
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