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Topic : 03/07 When Too Much is ... Too Much

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Created on : Friday, November 10, 2006, 09:20:25 am
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 11/15/06) Imagine discovering that your next-door neighbor owns over 200 cats. Ray and Dennis never thought their neighbor, Kristy, would let her pet collection get that big. Once friends, the three are now in a nasty and vindictive war because of the felines. Ray and Dennis say Kristy's property is one big, disgusting litter box, and they want Kristy to get rid of her cats. Kristy says she'll never part with her "cat sanctuary." Are Ray and Dennis playing dirty in order to run Kristy out of town? When is it too much, and where do you draw the line in the litter box? Then, Mike says his wife, Lori, keeps everything from used envelopes to empty food jars and medicine bottles, because she "might need it" in the future. He is ready to take desperate measures to put a stop to this. Lori says the thought of throwing her stuff out is her worst nightmare. Is Mike guilty of making nasty bribes to get his wife to change? What's really behind Lori's habit for hoarding? Tell us what you think!

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November 15, 2006, 3:13 pm PST

11/15 When Too Much is ... Too Much

Quote From: lndnlx4ever

I am a cat lover!!  I want to rescue every cat I see but I know that I have to be able to care for the animals that I bring home.  I have to make sure that I do what is in THEIR best interest.  Now as I see it.  200 cats just can not be healthy for the property or the cats or the neighbors.   Now for the neighbors  they should be there to HELP HER HELP HER HELP HER instead of being ars holes about it.  If they would lend some time,  and maybe some money they could make a enclosed area for these cats that would keep them on her land.  How about getting someone to come in every week to help her clean up.   

Kristy really needs to think before she speaks though.   she is not going about this in a way to help her self!!  so I see both sides but I think that even if you don't like cats fine but why hurt some one else's cats?? Help her to keep them and then people who don't like them won't have to deal with them.  

NO ONE SHOULD JUST START KILLING THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I so agree with you, its not the cats fault, she needs some help and I really hope some people will pitch in to help her. If poeple like Dr Phil and Opera could help her out with maybe some homes built in the back yard for her that would help her problem out so much!!!
 
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November 15, 2006, 3:29 pm PST

I'm so glad I'm not alone

Quote From: djsnjones

 I have a hoarding problem very similar to that of the woman on the show today.  It's very upsetting to both me and my husband.  I long to be healed, but I don't know how.  It's overwhelming and very anxiety-producing.  I even subscribed to the Clutter Workshop, but I'm too anxious and overwhelmed to read it.  I hope that Dr. Phil has an answer that I can relate to and work with, because I don't want to live out the rest of my life this way.  I long so profoundly to be different.  I long for it so much that I can't even express it in words.

I also have a "hoarding" problem.  It's not that I don't want to get rid of most of what I have piled in my home, but I just don't know where to start, so I don't start at all.  I have started and stopped so many times!  I'm great at lists.  I feel like I have to have a plan in order to start.  My children are now grown and are embarrassed by our lifestyle.  They don't want to bring their girlfriends over, and who can blame them! 

 

If I clean one area, where do I go with the things that need to be kept?  I have bought tub after tub to organize my stuff, but my family says that all I'm doing is shifting piles. 

 

I don't want to live the rest of my life this way, either.  I wish that there was more compassion for this problem.  This message board itself shows that there is more compassion for a bunch of cats(who are great, mind you) than there is for a human who wants help, but does not know how to get it.  My own family is an example of this.  "All you have to do is get rid of everything!" They don't understand that the reason we have anxiety getting rid of stuff is that we don't know ourselves what we would be getting rid of!  What if it IS important! 

 

 Also, the embarrassment is so hard to overcome.  This is something that I thought I would know how to do by now.  I am 46 years old.  This should be easy.  Most people can keep there houses reasonably clean.  What is different about me that I can't?

 

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November 15, 2006, 3:34 pm PST

By the numbers...

I notice there are a lot of people who support the cat hoarder on the show.  I will agree that her intentions are good, and in that she spays/neuters the cats that come in as being good.  Her methods, however, are dead wrong, dangerous to the health of the animals and her as well as in violation of the law.  Let’s look at the facts as presented in the show.

 

-She lives on ten acres but it is not zoned agricultural or there would not be a limit of four on domesticated animals.  Thus, she cannot have whatever she wants on her land, even if it is a bit of space.

 

-As mentioned in previous posts, 200 cats on ten acres is 20 cats per acre.

 

-The lady said she spent 40,000 dollars in five years.  That makes 8,000 dollars a year on cats.  Assuming the population remained at around 200 cats you have 8,000 divided by 200 or 40 dollars per cat per year. 

 

Here are some guesstimates based on my own experience with cat ownership:

-I am currently fostering five cats in my home until the rescue I work through can find them homes.  I clean their litter boxes twice a day, removing approximately three to five pounds of waste each time.  Let’s keep the numbers on the small side to give her the benefit of the doubt, in this scenario every five cats will produce six pounds of waste a day (we are counting the weight the urine mixed with soil would make in this number).  Divide 200/5 and we have 40 sets of five cats.  Forty times six pounds of waste is 240 pounds of waste a day.

 

-Now let’s put the waste on ten acres.  There are 240 pounds of waste distributed evenly over ten acres which means 24 pounds per acre.  That is in ONE DAY.  (The average lot size in a city near where I live is 2.5 acres for comparison.)

 

-Next, let’s talk cost.  By averages, each cat gets forty dollars a year.  We will not count the spay and neuter cost which, in my area, runs 80 to 100 dollars.  Assuming she includes a wellness exam, lab tests, and vaccinations for the best possible care the vet visit will run about another 100.  I would guess that to make the numbers she is merely going with the vaccines for maybe around 20 dollars.

 

-Food, every body loves food.  Say she gets a twenty pound bag of IAMS for about 25 dollars.  She could go cheaper at the grocery store, but we are assuming a high level of commitment to cat health.  My six barn cats can consume a ten pound bag a week, along with birds and mice.  If we have 200 cats/6 we have 33.3 cat units eating ten pounds each a week.  That is 333 pounds a week.  This number may seem high; my cats are really fat so they might be a bit overfed. J Using this number as a rough estimate she buys 333/20 or about 17 bags of cat food every week.  At $25 each times 17 bags she spends $425 a week on cat food, or about 2 dollars and 13 cents a cat.  If there are 52 weeks in a year that should be 110 dollars per cat.

 

-By these numbers, there is no way she can be providing what she says she is, not by normal standards of “good care.”

 

-Time:  To take a stray or abused cat and make it adoptable takes time.  I spend at least twenty minutes a day with each of my fosters handling and socializing them.  Since, in all fairness, not all of her cats can possible be adoptable, let’s say half of them, or 100, could be adopted out and so require handling.  If she spent as much time as I do, or even, let’s say 10 minutes a day, that adds up to 1000 minutes of cat handling.  One thousand minutes divided by 60 is 16.6 or close to 17 hours a day. 

 

These numbers are largely guesses, but I am trying to be fair about it.  I live on ten acres, zoned ag, with two horses, six barn cats, four fosters and a semi-feral who is in my tack room until she gets her stitches removed from spaying.  There is no way a person could have 200 cats on 10 acres where there would be no smell or no annoyance.  There is no way that these cats can have optimal medical care based on the information I have.  There is no way these cats can have the attention required.

 

It is admirable that this person wants to help cats, but she needs to do it the right way.  She needs to set a limit on how many she can adequately care for without being a neighborhood nuisance.  Then, she needs to adopt out cats as others come in.  Finally, she needs to realize she can’t save them all and she can't keep them all.  This is the difference between a true rescuer and an “animal hoarder.”  She needs guidance and therapy so she can assist these animals in a positive manner instead of putting them and herself at risk.

 

 
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November 15, 2006, 3:38 pm PST

Hoarding

 I understand this issue completely.  I am an organizational expert and believe it or not, i have seen and corrected much worse.  I sympathize with this issue because I have the opposite, which is obsessive compulsive disorder.  I MUST have all things organized and in place at all times.  It is exhausting, but I have turned it into a business and I can and do help,  I am very understanding because I do know that you cannot explain your hoarding to others just as I cannot explain my orderliness to others.  So I can very much help without being judgemental.  If you want help with your "stuff'  and live in the Philadelphia PA  area or its suburbs, please  email.  My rates are reasonable and I CAN have your home in shape by the holidays.  kitshe@excite.com 
 
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November 15, 2006, 3:39 pm PST

Kristy, you are trying to blame your neighbors for your issues.

And that's just totally wrong.

You need to get a grip.

YOU are the one hurting those cats, who EACH deserve a LOT of snuggling and loving EVERY SINGLE DAY.  YOU are like an angry divorced parent using your CATS as pawns in trying to make YOUR issues your neighbors' fault.

That is just plain WRONG.

If you really LOVE your cats, adopt them out NOW!
 
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November 15, 2006, 3:48 pm PST

thats what i was thinking

Quote From: djsnjones

 So the answer for this woman is.....

1) She can be fixed.
2) New understandings and techniques mean that she can be fixed fairly quickly.
3)  She will be sent to Dr. Lawless's clinic to find out the cause of her illness, and to be treated for it.
4)  She will be fixed fairly quickly.

So what about the rest of us?  What can we do if we can't afford to go see Dr. Lawless?  Is there a book or something that we could use as a resource?

That is what I thought ,good for her but what about the rest of us watching

I've seen him on here before he has alot of good advise and lots of practical knowledge.

 
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November 15, 2006, 3:52 pm PST

Hey people lets really think about this subject

The 1st guest today does have a problem EVEN if she takes care of the cats.  Questions that should of been asked 1. Do they (cats) medical attention( having shots is nice )but I mean have they been treated by a vet.  2 Do they Have Fleas?3. Are they outside all the time? 4 Are they kept inside of the owners property at all times. 5 they have proper outdoor living spaces.6 Are dead animals being disposed of properly  7. is the waste being treated correctly?

  I have to tell you if I was those people who lived next door I'd being trapping those cats if they came on my property.  I would be loading them up and taking them to vet have them put to sleep.  I work at a Church thrift store and People bring kittens to our shop at least every other month I have brought them to shelters/ given them away and yes unfortunately had to have several put down because of overcrowding in shelters and no one to given them too.  I hate to say this but cat don't belong roaming around they belong in your home. .LCMSA

 

 

 
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November 15, 2006, 3:53 pm PST

Kristy with the Cats

 

 

I want you to know that I understand your pain.  Some of our neighbors gave us an

awful time over our cats.  I have 9 cats now.  I couldn’t even sleep at night the stress was so bad.  I haven’t heard a word from them since we built the cat building. That was after the Neighborhood Homeowners Association fined us a $100.00 for building it. So, if you decide to build a building for your animals check the laws where you live first.

 

The animals do benefit.  They are safe at night and I don’t have to worry about neighbors sending them to the shelter or having them risk being hit by cars etc.  You will need to exercise the cats though.  It depends on how big your building can be.  Ours is 8ft by 15 ft. all together and broken down into 3 rooms.  Front supply room, exercise room, and litter room that has a fan to exhaust air out.  I also put heat lamps in there in the winter.  One whole side of the play room is mostly wire and plenty of fresh air comes in.  The exercise room has bright colorful shelves and the cats love to leap from shelf to shelf.

 

I realized that the stress with the neighbors really isn’t worth the trouble.  They had a right to have my animals stay in my yard and I had a right to ensure the safety of my animals.  The animals give so much back and they deserve to feel secure and safe.  A happy neighbor wouldn’t think of harming your cats.  A good neighbor may even start helping you, when they see you are making an effort to meet them half way.

 

Neighbors could help by donating building supplies like wood, wire, nails, roofing materials etc.  They also could give you scraps of old carpet they don’t need anymore.  It would be wonderful if other cat lovers could chip in a start a fund for your cats to have their own building and space.  If you are in need.  Maybe people could even send you cat food, cat litter, or toys, front-line flea spray, etc. if they can’t send money.

 

Remember there are still families out there that would love to have a cat to spoil.  Maybe you could share some of that love with them and get homes for just a few cats to start.  Believe it or not there are still some wonderful loving families out there just waiting for the right cat to come there way.

 

I wish you the very best of luck and hope you will let us all know how things turn out!

 
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November 15, 2006, 3:54 pm PST

11/15 When Too Much is ... Too Much

200 cats is entirely too much, even over a ten acre spread. Aren't there laws governing animals roaming free? I love animals too, but I would never ever buy property that has a neighbor who has this many of any animal. It has to be a health and safety matter- they are just roaming free, free to use all ten acres plus surrounding properties as a litterbox. If an animal strays onto your property, you are within your rights to have it taken away by animal control. And, is she having all of these cats treated medically for things such as rabies? And what about neutering and spaying. And does she try to find homes for these cats? I wouldn't want any of those animals on my property, near my family members, children, and my healthy pet. She's being inconsiderate and irrational. Why can't she build a large structure that would house all of these animals. Then maybe she wouldn't have such an issue with her neighbors. I guarantee her 200 plus cattery probably does lower property values- what prospective buyer is going to pay top dollar for a property neighboring hers? I know I wouldn't- it's a hassle.
 
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November 15, 2006, 3:56 pm PST

MY husband built it and I have a Plan Pic

Quote From: darfy1

Did you build it yourself?  Cost?  Specs?  We are looking to copy a friend's outdoor litter box soon.  Her husband has created a cunning use of PVC pipes and cat flaps to create a route to an outdoor screened-in litter area.  They also go to a screened shelter with perches for their cats.  Would love to have more info.
You may e-mail me and I will help where I can.
 
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