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Topic : 03/07 When Too Much is ... Too Much

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Created on : Friday, November 10, 2006, 09:20:25 am
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 11/15/06) Imagine discovering that your next-door neighbor owns over 200 cats. Ray and Dennis never thought their neighbor, Kristy, would let her pet collection get that big. Once friends, the three are now in a nasty and vindictive war because of the felines. Ray and Dennis say Kristy's property is one big, disgusting litter box, and they want Kristy to get rid of her cats. Kristy says she'll never part with her "cat sanctuary." Are Ray and Dennis playing dirty in order to run Kristy out of town? When is it too much, and where do you draw the line in the litter box? Then, Mike says his wife, Lori, keeps everything from used envelopes to empty food jars and medicine bottles, because she "might need it" in the future. He is ready to take desperate measures to put a stop to this. Lori says the thought of throwing her stuff out is her worst nightmare. Is Mike guilty of making nasty bribes to get his wife to change? What's really behind Lori's habit for hoarding? Tell us what you think!

Find out what happened on the show.

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November 16, 2006, 2:53 pm PST

11/15 When Too Much is ... Too Much

9 lives is just a myth... or is it? Once they are buried, they don't dig themselves out to take back their lives where they left off. But who can honestly say or prove that they are not simply reborn as another kitten elsewhere in the world? There are so many cats in the world, so many wild felines some of which are in danger of becoming extinct. No one can prove it either way, nor should we try to, for some things are better left alone.

What we must try to do, weither we love them or not, like them or not, is to respect and understand them a little better. To protect them. They do not take our love as unconditionaly as dogs, they are independant and able to care for themselves as long as a mommy-cat taught them (see about the cat who trusted his vet for more info and proof). They are often persecuted for no reason other than being born. But understand that cats are people too (so are all living creatures in their own evolutional stage for that matter)!!!

Stop persecuting them, abusing them, torturing them, testing on them, de-clawing them, shaving them, leaving them to die, they are NOT disposable toys that you get for your kid and abandon the next day because the kids aren't willing to play with them anymore.

Just like having a child, having a cat is a long-term commitment. This one though lasts only betwenn 13 and 20 human years.

 
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November 16, 2006, 3:05 pm PST

well i guess if you relly have a cat problem and its not your next door neaighbors cat take care of the problem the rite way

Cat Care Society logo Humane Management of Feral Cats

Introduction

Population control of feral cats is complicated and controversial. It is our hope that this article will help make the public aware of feral cats and prompt concerned citizens to assume responsibility for those cats that others have so thoughtlessly discarded.

What Is A Feral Cat?

Technically, feral cats are born and raised without human contact. Their instincts are highly developed for survival, so they are extremely fearful of people. Some cats that were previously owned revert to feral behavior, but may be resocialized with loving confinement. Such cats may meow at you if they are hungry or frightened.

Feral cats breed frequently, adding to an already overwhelming pet overpopulation problem. Without intervention, their lives are filled with danger, disease, hunger, fear, temperature extremes, and usually end in a slow, painful death. Humane population control of feral cats is a crucial step in preventing suffering and proliferation.

Where Do Feral Cats Come From?

Many people erroneously believe that cats can fend for themselves. Cat owners often abandon their cats when they move or simply no longer want the responsibility of pet ownership. Such cats survive only if they find food, shelter, and avoid dangers such as injury from cars, dogs, other cats, or abusive humans. They are rarely spayed or neutered, and their offspring are raised without human contact. Within a few years, one or two cats can produce a colony of twenty or more.

What Can I Do?

The fate of the cats must be determined before a trapping program begins. Cat Care Society believes that the cat's safety and welfare must be the first consideration in this process.

Kittens less than eight weeks old can be trapped and tamed (see below). Some kittens between eight weeks and four months can also be tamed, but the process takes longer and such kittens may only become tame with the person working with them.

Adult ferals or strays can be trapped, neutered by a veterinarian experienced in working with ferals, and released back into the same area, but only under very strict guidelines. Essentials are a familiar, safe environment where other animals, traffic, diseases, and humans will not be a threat; fresh food and water are provided daily; an available warm shelter; and the cats will not become a nuisance. Cats that are neutered and returned to a familiar area are healthier and will not be adding to the pet overpopulation problem by having unwanted litters.

Cat Care Society strongly discourages relocating feral cats except in rare situations. When feral or tame cats are moved and released without an initial period of confinement, they may try to find their way home through unfamiliar territory, risking danger and starvation. They may displace or be displaced by other resident cats, or may become a nuisance to people living in the release area.

When all other options have been exhausted, humane euthanasia is the kindest last step available. Sometimes relieving the hunger and suffering is more humane than saving the life. Euthanasia should be performed by a licensed veterinarian who has a working knowledge of feral cats. It is an act of mercy made from a decision of love for the individual animal.

Humane Trapping

Feral cats will not come close enough to humans to be touched, much less picked up and handled for placement in a standard cat carrier. A humane trap is used for this purpose. These are generally box traps made of wire fabric with heavy steel rod reinforcements. Food bait is placed in one end of the trap and the cat enters through the opposite end. When the cat steps on the metal plate, the door is triggered to close behind him. This does not cause the captured animal any pain although it does frighten him. Humane live traps are available for rent at most animal shelters, humane societies, and some veterinarians.

Remember, it is essential to have a plan mapped out before you trap. Make your appointments ahead of time with a vet experienced in working with ferals, and only trap the night before or the morning of neutering. Confinement is terrifying for ferals, so you want to avoid holding the cat in a trap for any longer than 12 hours before neutering.

Always try to observe any cats before you trap to determine whether or not they are nursing mothers. If you have a mother with kittens, wait until the kittens are four to six weeks old before trapping. If you trap a mother cat, you should immediately trap her kittens. Be certain you know where they are before trapping the mother.

  1. Begin feeding the cat on a regular schedule, preferably early morning and late evening, in a safe area away from dogs or children. Do not feed the night before trapping.
  2. Line the trap floor with newspapers or cloth to encourage a trap-shy cat to enter and give him comfortable, solid footing during transportation.
  3. Place a small amount of strong smelling or enticing food such as tuna or chicken (no bones) at the rear of the trap. Keep in mind that too much food can cause serious problems during anesthesia and surgery.
  4. Never leave a trap unattended. Never trap during extreme heat or cold, or during rain, sleet, hail, or snow.
  5. Once a feral cat is caught, cover the trap with a light blanket or towel, leaving the ends open for ventilation. This will help calm him. Transport him to the vet as soon as possible. If a non-target animal is caught, release him immediately.
  6. Do not attempt to handle the cat. If someone is bitten, see a doctor immediately.
  7. When trapping a large colony of feral cats, Cat Care Society recommends ear notching. This is a humane way of identifying cats that are already neutered and prevents the additional trauma of retrapping, anesthesia, and confinement and eliminates repetitive work for the rescuer and veterinarian.
  8. Give the cat a day after surgery to recuperate before releasing him. Open the trap or carrier, stand way back, and allow him to come out on his own. Some cats take several minutes to reorient themselves before leaving the trap.

Taming Your Feral Cat or Kitten

Working with a feral cat requires a great deal of love, patience and commitment. Kittens trapped between the ages of four to six weeks are quite easy to tame. Older kittens take longer; by ten or twelve weeks of age your success will depend more and more on the individual personality of the kitten, the amount of time you spend with them, and the number of dif~erent people handling them. Older kittens you tame may never trust anyone but you.

Confining the kitten to a small room such as a bathroom or bedroom where he cannot hide is essential. (Do, however, give him a box to sleep and hide in where he can feel safe but you can still reach for him easily). Check for any escape route such as places where plumbing enters the wall and heating ducts. Kittens can tear holes in window screen, so don't leave any windows open. Any place with an opening one inch or larger should be blocked. Provide a warm bed, fresh food and water, litter box, toys, and a radio to be played in your absence.

During frequent, short visits (15-20 minutes), talk softly to the kitten, handle him gently, and begin playing with him. The kitten may be so frightened by human contact he may attempt to strike or bite you. Heavy gloves will protect you and still allow you to handle the kitten, or you can start by touching with an "extension" such as a wooden spoon. Avoid eye contact at first; turning your head and blinking slowly when you must look at him. As you gain his trust, he will become more comfortable with your handling and the gloves can be removed. If you are working with more than one kitten, keep them separated during your visits. Be patient, and you will be amazed at the transformation.

Watch the kittens carefully for illness. Feral kittens often refuse to eat at first (offer chicken baby food). They may have parasites such as roundworms, and are susceptible to upper respiratory virus and other infectious diseases. Look for runny eyes, diarrhea, vomiting, bloating or weight loss, loss of appetite, and lethargy. Whether or not symptoms of illness are present, take your kittens along with a fresh stool sample to your veterinarian for examination as soon as possible. Keep the kittens isolated from your pets until the possibility of infectious disease has been eliminated.

Gradually introduce the kittens to others in your home. If you decide to adopt the kittens to a qualified family, have them go through the same procedures above. Feral cats tend to bond to one person, and proper introduction to a new home is essential.

Most feral adult cats can never tamed to be a "normal" cat, and it can be dangerous to try. It may be cruel to take an adult feral cat out of a known environment into confinement, even if our intentions are good. Given time, however, you can develop a different sort of relationship, developing a respect for one another, enriching your life and enlarging his world. If you choose to allow an adult feral into your home, start him out in a quiet part of your house. Children and other pets should not be allowed access to his area. Eventually, he will begin to explore. The adult feral will learn to trust at his pace, NOT yours!

Conclusion

Helping feral cats can be a time-consuming, frustrating, emotionally draining and rewarding experience simultaneously. Each situation presents a whole new sphere of learning experiences. Whether your decision is introducing the feral cat or kitten into your home, neutering, vaccinating, and returning the cat, or euthanasia, it is crucial to keep the welfare of the cat foremost at all times.

It is your love, concern, and active involvement that prevents further suffering, unwanted litters, and makes a better life for one of God's creatures.

 
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November 16, 2006, 3:18 pm PST

11/15 When Too Much is ... Too Much

Quote From: punkybird

I have personal experience with this type of thing and it is difficult to handle.  It seems that there is no family involved.  But as the family of someone who insists on hoarding, it tears a family up.

There were 20 cats, and 16 BIG dogs.  My mother felt that she was the only one who could look after these animals.

My dad had built a brand new house and it was full of feces and urine.  My mother never showered, she drank too much and constantly passed out in the middle of all this mess.  My dad is 66 and has Type I Diabetes, very brittle.

One day I get a call from him that he has to leave, my mother has kicked him out because he wants to clean up the house.

It took months and alot of money to get this disaster straightened out.  It meant going to court to get my Dad sole possession of the house.  The RCMP attended one of her numerous 'suicide' attempts, when she was so drunk she didn't know what she was doing and they reported the animals to the SPCA. The house was almost condemned by the Health Board.

After the animals were gone we got her an apartment and went to the order to the house and told her that she had to move, we had to fix the house and sell it.  My dad is so depressed and tired he can't work full time any more.  (I might add they lived 45 min away in a small town). Everyone knew about the house.  It is said but I actually had to tell my own mother that I would phone the police and have her removed if she returned to the house.

I am happy to say that she and my dad are living together again in the apartment only a few streets over from me. She does have to face charges on animal cruelty, mainly because she refused to euthanize animals that were obviously in distress.

I spent all my savings to get the house in condition to sell, but we still haven't been able to sell it, so my Dad is facing a financial crises.  Everyone in the small town knows about what happened and feels that house is unsanitary even though it has totally been renovated.

I have managed to help my dad get a deal with the bank for them to finance all his debt and hold off on taking any payments on any of it and the mortgage for 6 months, with the hope that the house will sell.

My mom has quit drinking and is trying very hard to deal with the chaos she has created, but she doesn't really get what all the damage is she has done.  And believe me this blowout was just the tip of that iceberg.

This a real problem for anyone who has to deal with it, but in all honesty the only way to deal with it is head on and with as much force as possible. Because someone who hoards doesn't get that it's a problem and you can't even start to help them until you get them away from it, so that they can feel a change in their life.

I just read your story..and it broke my heart. That must have been a very difficult time for you, and I hope it gets better for your family soon.
 
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November 16, 2006, 4:00 pm PST

I know where to go....

Quote From: luv2fix

 I so identified with the woman who's house was messy. It wasn't piled to the ceilings like some who are obviously seriously ill. It just had stuff everywhere. My husband says that the next house we get all the surfaces are going to be rounded because I fill up every flat spot. The problem I have is that if I can't see it I don't remember to do it. As a consequence everything is out and my poor husband can't see his things because he can't find it unless it's the only thing out. I wish I could change my habits and become a person who is neat and organized all the time. Where can people like me go for help?
I know exactly where to go: www.flylady.net and http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FlyLadyMentors/  The founder is Marla Cilley and it took her 9 months to reclaim her house from clutter and she started be shining her sink.  The second link is to sign up for daily emails that will let you know what to do and give you inspiration.  The biggest thing I can tell you is don't think that this is a magic pill and your house will become sparkling and beautiful overnight, because it won't.  I have been with FlyLady since before my daughter was born and my house still isn't where I want it, but my family can walk through the house without tripping, I can cook dinner without having to un-bury my kitchen, my daughter can play without my fear of her getting a hold of something that could hurt her and, most importantly, my house is no longer full of trash (literally).  It is a long road to get from where you are to where you want to be, but it is not difficult, unless you make it that way.  Just check out the website (flylady.net) and take a look.  I will keep you in mind and hope that the next time I see the group grow that one of them may be you.  Good luck!!!!
 
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November 16, 2006, 4:03 pm PST

mike and Lori

I think Dr Phil was too hard on Lori and not near hard enough on Mike. I really feel for Lori. I think she is married to a mean, selfish, controling man who doesn't care about her feelings or what is important to her. I bet if they did get a divorce she would have a clean house within a year and be a lot happier. I can relate to her situation. A man who gets a vacectomy when his wife wants a baby is not  being a loving husband. She has been pushed to survivalist mode. She probably had no feeling that anything that is important to her is safe.Hopefully her therepy will shed light on the real problem here and I bet he is a big part of it. And what's this about the kid spitting into his wastebasket? Then she is supposed to come in to his room like a janitor and empty that? If he wants to thow something away doesn't he know where the dumpster is?

 

 

 

 
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November 16, 2006, 4:18 pm PST

mike and lori

  Try   www.flylady.net . She makes things simple. Helps teach you how to manage the things you want and love. and get rid of the things you don't with baby steps.  just sign up for her e mail and she will send you reminders. 
 
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November 16, 2006, 4:32 pm PST

There are a lot of people like you....

Quote From: mama_shmo

I also have a "hoarding" problem.  It's not that I don't want to get rid of most of what I have piled in my home, but I just don't know where to start, so I don't start at all.  I have started and stopped so many times!  I'm great at lists.  I feel like I have to have a plan in order to start.  My children are now grown and are embarrassed by our lifestyle.  They don't want to bring their girlfriends over, and who can blame them! 

 

If I clean one area, where do I go with the things that need to be kept?  I have bought tub after tub to organize my stuff, but my family says that all I'm doing is shifting piles. 

 

I don't want to live the rest of my life this way, either.  I wish that there was more compassion for this problem.  This message board itself shows that there is more compassion for a bunch of cats(who are great, mind you) than there is for a human who wants help, but does not know how to get it.  My own family is an example of this.  "All you have to do is get rid of everything!" They don't understand that the reason we have anxiety getting rid of stuff is that we don't know ourselves what we would be getting rid of!  What if it IS important! 

 

 Also, the embarrassment is so hard to overcome.  This is something that I thought I would know how to do by now.  I am 46 years old.  This should be easy.  Most people can keep there houses reasonably clean.  What is different about me that I can't?

There are at least 358,209 people (and that is just in one Yahoo group) like you in the world!  I am one of those 358,209.  Check out www.flylady.net to learn how you, too, can have a reasonably clean house.  I have been with FlyLady for a little short of 4 years and my house is so much better than it was.  One thing you need to remember, you can not organize clutter.  Ask yourself if what your are moving from spot to spot and trying to keep in tubs are things that you love.  If you don't than it is time for it to go.  At the beginning it is very difficult to let the things go, but eventually it becomes very liberating!  We are currently living in our 4th house on this Marine base and we have purged things each time we have moved.  And I don't mean just a trash bag here and a trash bag there, but dumpsters full!  The last time we moved we made trips to the dumpsters that housing provided us 5 times!  Believe me, it will get better; you can do this!  Check out the site!
 
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November 16, 2006, 4:55 pm PST

There is another Flybaby out there!

Quote From: maryjo11

  Try   www.flylady.net . She makes things simple. Helps teach you how to manage the things you want and love. and get rid of the things you don't with baby steps.  just sign up for her e mail and she will send you reminders. 
I was wondering when more of us were going to show up!  Isn't she just a blessing?  I get so upset reading what some of these people have to say about people with true problems.  And the people that think that they have to fork out money to have their house cleaned or to get from doctors.  If only they knew that the answer lies within themselves, that all they need is a little free guidance from other people that have been there and have found a way out.  It's good to see you here.  I think all the flybabies should get together and see if we can't get Marla on the Dr. Phil show!  Good luck to you with your Flying!
 
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chillin'
November 16, 2006, 5:16 pm PST

i often wonder if the depression our grand parents went through has any thing to do with alot of hording people do today?

Rationing & Scrap Drives
  A first rationed purchase.   During the Depression of the 1930s, Americans "did without" because they didn't have jobs to buy food and clothing. During World War II, Americans again "did without," this time because of the war effort. Rationing affected rural America particularly.

The federal government set up a rationing system in 1942 and limited purchases of sugar, coffee, meat, fish, butter, eggs, cheese, shoes, rubber and gasoline. Silk and newly invented nylon was used to produce parachutes, and so women around the world found it hard to get fashion stockings.

Other commodities were in short supply because trade routes were disrupted. Shellac, for instance, was produced in India and was used for building products and music record discs. Because of the war in Asia, trade with India was disrupted, and so new records were hard to come by.Ration Blues

The shortages became such a nuisance that they even got the attention of song writers. Jazz musician Louis Jordan was one of those who had fun with rationing when he wrote "Ration Blues." Click the jukebox to hear the song.

Farm production, however, was vital to the war effort, so farmers got extra rations of gasoline and other staples. Yet, it was hard to get new machinery as factories were retooled to produce tanks rather than tractors.

Here's how rationing worked: Each member of the household got a ration booklet, usually distributed at a the local school. Each booklet had stamps in it that translated into a certain amount of the commodity being rationed. For instance, there were only enough stamps for one person to buy 28 ounces of meat per week, 4 ounces per day. Merchants collected the stamps when you bought something, and when the stamps were gone so was the item for that week.

The challenge was to use everyone's stamps to buy the food the family needed. The Office of Price Administration gave out points that could be used to purchase goods in very short supply, but it was up to the consumer to use the coupons when buying rationed items.

Freddie Oglesby InterviewKelly Holthus InterviewFreddie Oglesby (left) remembers having to have coupons ready before she bought anything. "When you bought something," Freddie says, "you'd have to have the stamps ready to hand them because that was what our allotment was."

Kelly Holthus (right) remembers that, in a town of 600 people, everyone knew how much everyone else was supposed to be getting. So, cheating was hard to get away with. "It was all those little things that were so important," he says. "The gas rationing, the sugar stamps, the coffee stamps. The ladies couildn't get nylons."

Winton Wright InterviewDiena Schmidt InterviewWinton Wright (left) talks about how families adapted to rationing. "You done with what you had," he says. "Now, I often wonder if that happened again today, how people would cope with that."

Diena Schmidt (right) remembers how her family worked around the wartime shortages. "We just became more ingenious," she says. "If we could buy a box of Jell-O, we'd make a piecrust and put Jell-O in it and we had pie."

Regulating the supply of goods led to a "Black Market" – the sale of items "off the records," from farm equipment to gasoline to beef and pork. The government was so concerned that they actually produced a short dramatic film encouraging people not to break the law.

Mildred Hopkins InterviewTechnically, Mildred Hopkins (left) sold cigarettes on the "black market," although she did it just to help out friends. She stopped after she stored a carton in a drawer with perfume and her friends complained about how the cigarettes tasted.

Millie Opitz and her husband Chris had to go on the black market to get a combine they needed in the middle of the war.

  Rita Hayworth, scrap drive   Save those scraps. With so many commodities in short supply, the government not only rationed them but also campaigned to save and reuse vital materials. Many people who were children or teenagers during World War II remember how their small towns held scrap drives. People collected scrap paper so it could be used for packing around equipment and weapons. All kinds of metal was collected so it could be recycled and made into bombs. Engine grease was saved. The government needed copper for war material and minted pennies from zinc-coated steel in 1943. Towns had paper drives, rubber drives, and scrap metal drives. Children went door to door in their neighborhoods. The drives generated a strong sense of community and a patriotic feeling that everyone was helping in the war effort. The actual savings from these drives is difficult to measure.

So today's recycling movement may have actually begun in the 1940s.

 
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November 16, 2006, 5:25 pm PST

wow did we watch the same show?

Quote From: sheepfarmer

I think Dr Phil was too hard on Lori and not near hard enough on Mike. I really feel for Lori. I think she is married to a mean, selfish, controling man who doesn't care about her feelings or what is important to her. I bet if they did get a divorce she would have a clean house within a year and be a lot happier. I can relate to her situation. A man who gets a vacectomy when his wife wants a baby is not  being a loving husband. She has been pushed to survivalist mode. She probably had no feeling that anything that is important to her is safe.Hopefully her therepy will shed light on the real problem here and I bet he is a big part of it. And what's this about the kid spitting into his wastebasket? Then she is supposed to come in to his room like a janitor and empty that? If he wants to thow something away doesn't he know where the dumpster is?

 

 

 

the one i watched showed her not wanting to part with nothing  i think maybe you could be a bit mixed up here, but she was a real card it would be easy to misunderstand what was going on with her as she kept every one laffing i enjoyed watching her a lot that was the best guest ive ever seen on dr phil scense ive been watching his show,>
 
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