Topic : Pornography

So basically this is what you are saying....and I hear you clearly, BUT, is this not the same thing that any man can say about the use of porn?>  How is it "right" or understandable for YOU...but not for "your man".....if you can put yourself into that frame of mind where the "need" or curious nature can over-take your better judgement....even knowing full well that it truly does NOT make anyone "feel like a better person"....and you still induldge in side that world for whatever "excuse" you say you have.....how is that any different for any man....even someone who is obsessed with the world of pornography to the point it ruins their own marriage???? 

You see, all along I truly believe you've missed at least my points to you in the past.  See there is nothing "wrong" morally or otherwise with porn to YOU.  So to base your argument to any man about what is "wrong" with porn in the case of your marriage doesn't hold water at all.  You can not (no one can) say one thing and believe another thing.  You can't be an alcoholic and "sometimes drink"....it doesn't work.  You can't "claim" to have these tragedies of married life dealing with porn and then submit to using porn yourself.  Because your own personal "convictions" about why and how porn works and the world of reality in that it can destroy people and then fall into that same wrong yourself.   It's like calling "wolf" and then expecting all those around you to believe or even hear your complaints about it.    This is something I don't think you get....or at least admit to.   You cannot be one thing to one person and then change into something for someone else.  You either sincerely believe in your convictions about morals or you don't....and yes porn is a moral issue.  Whether people want to admit that or not.  It's about placing something inside your mind, soul and body that doesn't belong there and it has no place inside your relationship.  You can't slap hands of others unless your own hands are not doing that which you believe is wrong.  And it is NOT about it being "wrong sometimes".....or when YOU control the situation because you (and all women) have no business saying to any adult man (or women) that you can only "use" porn when "I say you can...." or when "I think it's oK" ....or " only until "I" judge that it's out of control.......it doesn't work that way, never has, and never will.  

That's exactly why MOST women who willingly participate with porn inside their relationship and then suddenly decide that it's gone beyond what "they" think is "right or wrong" or their "feelings" about it changes.......they find themselves in a world of destruction and hurt because they've already set up themselves inside a relationship where that main component of RESPECT for them is NOT there to begin with.......mainly because they didn't have enough respect for themselves in the beginning to stand against something to themselves and the millions of other women that porn objectifies and destroys.

I totally "get" where men think the way they do about "us"......WE gave them permission to.

Luv

It's amazing how many people live inside a relationship where they will tolerate things based on what they will allow or tolerate in themselves first.   That's the key here Kimi......You've been here going on like 4 years.   Nothing has changed, and nothing will.   And it's not entirely the "fault" or because of the actions of this one person in your life.  

If you want change, get to the place where you honestly believe you are strong enough to make declarations about what you will and will not tolerate inside YOUR life and YOUR marriage.  There are those things that are totally UNacceptable and will NOT be tolerated.   There are ways that you will NOT allow another person to do unto YOU because YOU could NOT imagine doing that to them.  You hold respect enough for YOURself and trust YOURself enough to know that you CAN and will make those demands about how you are going to ALLOW that person to treat you.  At the same time, YOU put forth the same attitude and respect towards them that you expect from them.  It WILL ALWAYS start from inside YOU not them.  If you want to be treated differently it always begins within yourself and how you treat them FIRST.   We are all teachers.....teaching someone else HOW we expect to be treated.  And it starts with leading the expectations....by showing them HOW to be loved, how to be respected and what we will and won't take into our lives.    And until that is done.....nothing will ever change.

Luv.....and Yes, Happy Thanksgiving too.  And I am NOT doing so great actually.....I am at a major decision making point on this day and it's really hard to know what to do. But it will pass....all things do pass and usually things get better.

One thing we know is life is bad sometimes, good sometimes and it sucks when its at its bad mode! I hope the brighter side is nearby.

I do understand that we set up the stage for how we are going to be treated and how we show others that they can treat us. I tried to be cool and it blew up in my face and I also need to believe that its not porn that destroys lives, but individuals and that could be because inside of my self I want to believe porn is not bad. Why? Because then I would have to make some major changes in many things.

Once I watched it with him, and now he thinks nothing changes? How stiff is that? People are allowed and even encouraged to change their minds and I find it really pathetic that my going in thinking porn was useful, at times in my life and open to think that is acceptable in times of desperation, having no person involved, would stamp me as a porn libber. But it sure does seem that if a girl is open to it, that makes her disrespectable? Why is it so macho in the mans world but a girl is a low life because she does the same thing? That is absurd.

Thats also being in denial and not willing to go with the flow if its not in your opinion, your opinion. But we are selfish and greedy like that and I do believe that people are solo even in relationships, so it takes like you say, similar morals or is it being flexible and compassionate? but that does not give them a right to abuse others. I do it to others and others do it to me, daily. People are mirrors of what we are and my marriage is failing because I have failed, I accept that and now I have to see if I am staying because I care about our relationship or if I am afraid to leave.

Getting over something implies we are avoiding the obstacle and will probably have the same obstacle face us once again. But if we go through it, feel and experience it for all it is, when we do get to the other side, we will have experienced it completely so that when we are up against it again, the fear won't make us want to "run and get over it" but know that "we went through this once" and we now have the confidence and wisdom that makes it easier the next time.

Accepting porn, cheating, accepting homosexuality in our lives does not imply "we" accept it within ourselves but that we "accept" it as the way it is for others. It gives that person the freedom to be was they want to be and our controlling has no place in it. If we can love all beings, even our enemies, then our life will be a much more peaceful and useful. If we fight against the tide, we will drown, if we go with flow of it, it just might take us back home. But struggling never seems to be the way to go.

If a man starts living a homosexual lifestyle, or if he spends his time and money on porn, or if he cheats on his wife, who is really suffering? I know my husband looks at porn, every day if he could, I don't think he cheats on me with someone else, I do question his sexual preferences. But this is all relative. I am not here to figure out what or who he is or what or whom he sexually prefers to be with, in mind and in heart. I am here to figure out how I react to these things. My reaction of loss of control, anger, humility , rejections, hurts, these are things that even though his actions may have initially "pulled the rug from under me" I chose to stay under. By trying to figure him out, I lost touch with who I am and then that's when the real trouble begins.

Start with a moment by moment analysis of how "you" are feeling and grow to accept all sides. The ugly, the beautiful, the joyous, the depressed. The more you can accept you for who you are you will see that the actions of others, although they may hurt you and continue to pull the rug from you, you will have the confidence in youself that you will be ok, no matter what happens.

also does not mean

And it is but it sure does seem easier then battling with things that other people are doing. It gives them the freedom to be who they are, and ourselves, the freedom to be who we are. If I can say one thing about it after 4 years of coming to this board, venting it to my friends, flinging it past a few therapists, meditating on it and reading books/listening to tapes.......the lesson was for me or else I would not have delved into it as deeply. But through it all, and I say this not so lightly, my husbands porn use and our intimacy problems were as much of a gift to me as were the vacations, feelings of security and belonging because I have once again had an opportunity to experience what I am like in a relationship and to be honest, I think I suck.

But thats ok because I am no longer blaming anyone else and my staying in a situation like this is exactly what I needed to see how I really feel about myself. Even though I was upset, what did I do? I went right back to how I did things when I was 15.......nah nah nah nah nah.............and it was fun but not good for a marriage. So, now even though you are struggling with your husbands possibliy homosexual tendencies, my husbands craving for porn, someone elses man for cheating, what is it that we are doing?????? I learned after 4 years, its not what he is doing or not doing, but what I am doing to change the situation, and it does not necessarily mean I need to change who I am. And neither do you. :+)

Ok I in a relationship with an older man. I moved in with him about 6 months ago. I am 33 and he is 56. Things were wonderful in the beginning as they always are. I noticed on his web searchings that he was looking at yahoo personals. I asked him about this and he was defensive stating he was just curious about people and that he was not out looking for somone. Said he had never cheated on anyone and would never with me. A few months pass. He starts talking to me in the bedroom about fantasies and if I ever imagined having a threesome with two guys. Of course I said I had a fantasy about it but actually doing it was another thing. He said he had done it along time ago with 2 girls and it was great. We started playing around with the idea but me with great hesitation. About a week later he tells me that he posted on Craigs list looking for a guy to fulfill this fantasy of mine although I am thinking I could never go through with such a thing. He said he just wanted to see the responses we would get.  He soon changed his mind, with my help, stating that he couldnt share me with anyone that he loved me too much. He is an extremely jealous guy.

So it leads me to what happens next. I discovered that a few weeks later that he posted two ads on Craigs list... One looking for a threesome that he could join another couple and also an ad looking for a man to have mutual pleasure with. I responded to one of the ads as another person and he responded to it. I packed my stuff and was ready to move out. I never came out and told him what I knew and being a smart man he knew. He never tried to lie about it and said he was completely wrong. He cried and cried and cried begging me to stay and to forgive. Said he never would have followed through with it. Stating that he has a perverted mind sometimes when it comes to sex. And he only wanted to see how people would respond and what they would say. Hoping they would send him pics and hearing what they would do in the bedroom. He says he has a curious mind when it comes to people. He promised that he would never go back on that site and has opened his computer up for whenever I would like to check up on him. His remorse was real.

Now I am a patient and very easy going person. A downfall on my part at times I think. The forgiving part comes easy its the forgetting that is impossible. Can he be trusted? Would be so much easier if I wasn't in love with this guy. But I am. 

Actually this was the post I wanted to reply to.  I don't see where the poster you were replying to said anything about homosexuality being a choice or not.  I thought they were referring to working thru problems in a marrige, whatever they may be. 

I also don't understand why someone with a Christian point of view is not credible, but every other point of view is perfectly acceptable, no matter how ludicrous.

There is a reason they call it the Christian "RIGHT"