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Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

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Created on : Friday, November 17, 2006, 12:57:50 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Parents want the best for their children, but what’s the best way to educate them? Dr. Phil’s guests face off in a debate about whether to school, homeschool or unschool. Dana and her husband, Joe, call themselves radical unschoolers. They say education happens as a side effect of life, and they don’t believe in tests, curriculums or grades. Are their three kids learning what they need to know? Then, RaeAnn says public schools are death traps and wants to homeschool her children. Her husband, Steve, says their kids are safer at school than they are at home. Can this couple reach a compromise? Plus, Nicole feels like an outcast at 26. She says she hated being homeschooled, and couldn’t relate to other kids. Share your thoughts here.

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November 19, 2006, 1:35 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: txmary

P.S.  Two of my younger sisters graduated public high school (this is one of the best public schools in NE Texas!) in all HONORS classes and could not tell you the difference between a noun and a verb nor could they do advanced math.  Yes, public schools at thier finest there!

 

 

The above is a perfect example of grade inflation.  Some of my son's friends goto the local Public High School, and they are in "honors" classes as well.  These honors classes are a joke.  Before I pulled my son out of the school he was enrolled in the Pre-AP classes.  One of the classes didn't even have a textbook.  He had no homework nor any real classroom assignments.  The teacher "lectured" every day on topics like the prices of oil stocks and the evil of the death penalty.  This is what my tax dollars goto?  No thanks.

On the flip side, a local school in my area gave honors students a summer reading assignment. Many of the students cheated by cutting and pasting answers from the Internet. When the teacher failed the students for  cheating, the majority of the parents threatened to sue the school. They made a huge stink at school board meetings and in the media. The school caved under pressure, and although the students still received failing grades for the assignment, the cheating/plagiarism charge was expunged from the students' records.

 

I am aghast that the school caved, but mostly I blame the parents. When people say parents always know what is best for their kids, I have to wonder. It is difficult for a school to maintain high standards without the support of parents.

 
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November 19, 2006, 1:35 pm PST

What about this

Quote From: sneakers145

How do kids learn to walk? Talk?  They do it by trying.  No matter how many 'walking lessons' you set up, basically your child will walk only when ready.  Same with talking.  They learn by doing, and because they WANT TO.  Kids want to explore the world around them.  They are programmed that way!!  Try stopping a toddler from learning.  You can't!

 

And if you don't stick life in a box or relegate it to black and white words on a page, where you're hemmed in by four walls and a teacher, the whole world is at their fingertips just waiting to be explored.  There are no bells to interrupt a subject you're fascinated by.  There is no forcing what their minds aren't quite ready to absorb.

 

My kids are 8 & 12.   They read, write, and do math.  Just not with textbooks and worksheets.  Math is all around us.  You can't get away from it.  They play with numbers all the time.

 

Contrast that to their public schooled friends who will avoid anything that has to do with numbers [my son was playing with a car advertisement and reading the prices (learning place value from 10s to 10s of thousands) and a school friend piped up and told him to stop 'doing math' because it was Saturday and you don't do math if you don't have to.  He was just having fun.  I knew he was learning.  Learning happens.  You can't stop a kid from reading when they're ready.

 

How do they learn to spell?  E-mailing friends and family.  Making lists.  Asking questions.  By reading.  Because they have a real-life reason to.

 

How do they learn to read?  Again, the written word is all around us.  Internet, computer games, instruction manuals, e-mails, etc.

 

I don't need to MAKE SURE my kids know these things.  They WANT to know these things.  As I said before, it comes down to TRUST.  And after 12 years of watching and observing,  it's easy to see that they are learning.  Every day.  By living life in the real world instead of being closed into a box.

 

I am my children's facilitator.  I supply information, or where they might find that information.  Google is our friend.  The world is at our fingertips.  Not in a dull textbook written 20 years ago.

 

Let me ask this:  As an adult, how do YOU learn?  Do you take a class every time you want to know something?  Or do you go to the library, use google, ask friends, find someone who  knows, etc?

 I understand what you are saying but, what about a child that does not care to learn math or much of anything else? I know and respect that you made that choice for your kids...I just feel more comfortable with books. But, hey, that's the wonderful thing about home schooling....we can choose how to do it...as long as kids are learning what they need to know and to the law.

I wish you luck.
 
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November 19, 2006, 1:37 pm PST

Exactly

Quote From: txmary

P.S.  Two of my younger sisters graduated public high school (this is one of the best public schools in NE Texas!) in all HONORS classes and could not tell you the difference between a noun and a verb nor could they do advanced math.  Yes, public schools at thier finest there!

 

 

The above is a perfect example of grade inflation.  Some of my son's friends goto the local Public High School, and they are in "honors" classes as well.  These honors classes are a joke.  Before I pulled my son out of the school he was enrolled in the Pre-AP classes.  One of the classes didn't even have a textbook.  He had no homework nor any real classroom assignments.  The teacher "lectured" every day on topics like the prices of oil stocks and the evil of the death penalty.  This is what my tax dollars goto?  No thanks.

Exactly!  My sisters even did the  duel  HS and college courses, and  knew NOTHING.    Not all HS are like this, but I am hearing about more and more cases that make me want to homeschool my kids too!

One good thing about homeschooling in my area is that starting at the age of 16, there is a local college that lets you (for homeschoolers) take classes in math, english, science, and social studies that are duel credit at the college.
 
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November 19, 2006, 1:41 pm PST

Sad but true

Quote From: faeryedark

 Wow! The public school I went to had  College credit courses. Also, the teachers were not afraid to give out F's and hold you back. They also had Gifted classes. I don't remember any ADHD kids. The teachers worked hard to keep kids stimulated and interested. If you weren't "with the rest of the class" they wanted to know why. Often, it was because a child was bored, or learned differently. So, the teacher's would move the kid to a class better suited to him/her. I was in 5th grade reading in 2nd grade and by the time I was in 6th I was working on my own in the back of the room.

I guess, it all depends on the district and the teachers

Yes, my sisters did the duel credit classes too.  They still graduated without knowing the difference between a noun/verb and were not able to do advanced math (anything beyone basics).

Even with ADHD, I  WAS in the advanced classes in  elementary school. I was still bored.  I really think it does depend on the teachers and how much each individual school does for the students.  You are right that a GOOD school works with the kids, and those are the schools I would not have a problem sending my kids too, but most of our local school don't care.
 
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November 19, 2006, 2:48 pm PST

Homeschooling works for us.

First let me say that I am a "poster child" of the public schools.  I graduated as Valeditorian, have a B.S. and an M.S. in Chemical engineering and worked in engineering for seven years.  That being said, I believe my kids are better off homeschooled than in public schools.  I do not believe children must be exposed to the negative forces of public school to succeed in life.  I also do not want my children to learn from an authority figure that "evolution" is fact, nor do I agree to let the school ask my children personal questions or teach them reproductive issues.  My children will learn about the theory of evolution as well as other theories but they will be taught that the bible is the word of God.

 

I use an organized Christian curriculum to teach my kids at home.  My son is a year ahead of his peers and my daughter is tracking alongside her peers just fine.  We are involved in many social activities between church, our homeschool group and our MOM's Club.  My children take dance, gymnastics, karate, soccer, etc...  They are not socially or educationally deprived.  We read books by the hundreds. 

 

I keep up with what my friend's kids at public school are studying just to make sure we are on top of everything.  If you are committed to home education, it is a viable route.

 
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November 19, 2006, 3:13 pm PST

great school debate

well all kids need  to go too school!  thats how they learn things and make friends too!!   its good for kids to be around other kids.  also  they can learn alot of stuff they need to know.    to help them in life as they grow up!!   they need to put God back into our schools!!  things would be better in our schools if they put God back into it!!
 
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November 19, 2006, 3:19 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: sneakers145

How do kids learn to walk? Talk?  They do it by trying.  No matter how many 'walking lessons' you set up, basically your child will walk only when ready.  Same with talking.  They learn by doing, and because they WANT TO.  Kids want to explore the world around them.  They are programmed that way!!  Try stopping a toddler from learning.  You can't!

 

And if you don't stick life in a box or relegate it to black and white words on a page, where you're hemmed in by four walls and a teacher, the whole world is at their fingertips just waiting to be explored.  There are no bells to interrupt a subject you're fascinated by.  There is no forcing what their minds aren't quite ready to absorb.

 

My kids are 8 & 12.   They read, write, and do math.  Just not with textbooks and worksheets.  Math is all around us.  You can't get away from it.  They play with numbers all the time.

 

Contrast that to their public schooled friends who will avoid anything that has to do with numbers [my son was playing with a car advertisement and reading the prices (learning place value from 10s to 10s of thousands) and a school friend piped up and told him to stop 'doing math' because it was Saturday and you don't do math if you don't have to.  He was just having fun.  I knew he was learning.  Learning happens.  You can't stop a kid from reading when they're ready.

 

How do they learn to spell?  E-mailing friends and family.  Making lists.  Asking questions.  By reading.  Because they have a real-life reason to.

 

How do they learn to read?  Again, the written word is all around us.  Internet, computer games, instruction manuals, e-mails, etc.

 

I don't need to MAKE SURE my kids know these things.  They WANT to know these things.  As I said before, it comes down to TRUST.  And after 12 years of watching and observing,  it's easy to see that they are learning.  Every day.  By living life in the real world instead of being closed into a box.

 

I am my children's facilitator.  I supply information, or where they might find that information.  Google is our friend.  The world is at our fingertips.  Not in a dull textbook written 20 years ago.

 

Let me ask this:  As an adult, how do YOU learn?  Do you take a class every time you want to know something?  Or do you go to the library, use google, ask friends, find someone who  knows, etc?

I don't really get it I guess. How does a kid learn calculus or trigonometry this way? (Please don't get defensive, I'm really just trying to understand.)
 
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November 19, 2006, 4:21 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

I didn't know what "unschooling" is, so I looked it up on Wikipedia:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unschooling

 

I have raised a child to adulthood...and he would not have learned about US History, World History, Algebra, Geometry, Algebra II, Trig, Calculus, American Lit, English Lit, Philosophy and a whole slough of other subjects via "unschooling".

 

My daughter aspires to be a doc, my son (right now) aspires to be a lawyer...neither of these professions can be learned through unschooling.

 

Also...I think my son wouldn't have made it to his 4 year university via unschooling...the SATs are brutal...and entail more than what can be learned through everyday life.

 

Marie

 
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November 19, 2006, 4:24 pm PST

i cant complane about the schools here in georgia

my child is doing very well,and our schools are as safe as anyone could want them to be,and being in public schools give a child a chance to grow and learn with all races,and this day that is very important, were trying so hard to get people to stop seeing others as being differnt becouse of skin color and by the way they want to beleive in god or not,if a child is home schooled yes there in a safer place in your home than any public place but are they relly going to adjust to all the differnt people they are going to have to be around in a work inviroment?i guess only time will tell that answer,ofcorse that too wont be a problem as long as the parents teaching there children at home teach them not to be raceist,but also a parent has to have a high school deploma in georgia to home school there kids, so that leaves me out  i didnt get mine, but my child is doing better than i ever could have wanted him to be doing,
 
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November 19, 2006, 4:24 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

all kids  need to be in school! they learn the things they need to know and make friends too!!
 
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