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Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

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Created on : Friday, November 17, 2006, 12:57:50 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Parents want the best for their children, but what’s the best way to educate them? Dr. Phil’s guests face off in a debate about whether to school, homeschool or unschool. Dana and her husband, Joe, call themselves radical unschoolers. They say education happens as a side effect of life, and they don’t believe in tests, curriculums or grades. Are their three kids learning what they need to know? Then, RaeAnn says public schools are death traps and wants to homeschool her children. Her husband, Steve, says their kids are safer at school than they are at home. Can this couple reach a compromise? Plus, Nicole feels like an outcast at 26. She says she hated being homeschooled, and couldn’t relate to other kids. Share your thoughts here.

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November 24, 2006, 2:29 pm PST

I agree

Quote From: lactivist7

Dr. Phil said he had seen research to support the idea that  homeschoolers are not properly  "socialized".  I want to see it... in black and white.  Where is it?  Because all of the research I have seen and life experience (after having taught in public school, private school and homeschool) shows me different.  My 2 oldest homeschoolers are 14 and 16. What are they missing out on?  My 14 yod is very mature and described by others as a "joy to be around" on a regular basis.  She does not act like "boys" are the only reason for life, she has not participated in irresponsible behavior and values the opinions of her parents.  My son, who is very easily influenced has not became involved in drugs and sexual promiscuity.  Not properly socialized?  The whole socialization issue is laughable as she said on the show.  I want to see this so called research Dr. Phil? And while you are at it.. check out the research done by the National Homeschool Education Research Institute, not just the research done by the NEA.
I, too, would love to see the research he talks about.
 
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November 24, 2006, 2:30 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

And another thing... I attended both Catholic school (pre-school - 6) and public school (7 -12). Public schools suck. I was so far ahead of most of my classmates.  In my senior year governent class, only two of us knew how to figure out percentages. Only two! And after the teacher explained it numerous times and the rest of the class figured it out, they still complained because they couldn't do it without calculators!   Seriously, public schools need a major re-haul and not just some crappy 'no child left behind' bull. 
 
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November 24, 2006, 2:30 pm PST

Bravo to you!

Quote From: brync36

Today's topic is something about home schooling, yet no one seems to be addressing the fact that these parents that have been on for the last 20 minutes are letting their children run the household! Not having any children myself, I have to question...is this a NORMAL thing today?? When I was a kid, I went to bed when I was told...I ate what was put on my plate at dinner time...and I was off the baby bottle WELL before the age of 5!!!
Clips of this couple turning their children into rip roaring brats have been playing throughout the entire episode thus far, but everyone keeps chattering on about home schooling! No wonder kids these days are turning into a bunch of disrespectful thugs..
I have to admit, I thought the same thing as I viewed that couple's unruly brood.  Without self-discipline, not only will they fail to learn, they will fail to hold down a job.  It's a good thing their father is self-employed.  Although he may not like their habits much if he chooses to employ them some day.
 
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November 24, 2006, 2:31 pm PST

Those kids will live at home forever

I'm watching the show right now.  I guarantee those kids will never move out.  Why would they?  They'll be 30 and Miss "let them bottle feed until they're 12"  will say "It's fine that you live here.  You'll move out when you feel like it."
 
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November 24, 2006, 2:32 pm PST

Schooled during the week, unschooled on the weekends

I am 18 years old, recently graduated from high school, and currently in college working on a double major and double minor. I was traditionally schooled my entire life in both private and public schools, and hated every minute of it up until this year, when I went to college. I agreed with a lot of the "philosophy" of the parents who wanted to unschool their children, especially in their belief that children are the most unheard and "discriminated against" people in our society today. I have felt silenced by the school systems since I entered them -- teachers don't listen to their students' opinions, advisors hardly hear students' problems, administrators seem to care so very little about the actual well-being of the kids in their care. I felt like a statistic my whole life, and especially felt like there was so much information and subject matter being crammed down my throat -- most of it unimportant, uninfluential, and long since forgotten.

 

That being said, I also look back and appreciate it. The traditional school provided me with insights and experiences I never would have encountered had I been homeschooled or "unschooled. " I believe that there can be "unschooling" while a child is being schooled traditionally. My parents never restricted me, never stifled my creativity or imagination, never silenced me, never ignored or shot down my opinions, and generally let me make my own decisions and my own mistakes. I learned to be a free thinker with specific morals because my parents were "unschooling" me on the weekends, while I learned to deal with rigidity, conflict, ignorance, and intolerance during the weeks in traditional schools. My family constantly went on weekend trips, went to museums, studied things, and did all the "hands-on" learning that unschoolers hope to achieve, while still allowing me the benefits of traditional schools.

 

The biggest problem with education is that people take things to the extreme. Why must it be either all school or no school at all? Why can't parents put thier children in the educational system and still monitor them, nurture them, and enhance their person? I don't understand why it has to be one of the other -- I hated school for many reasons, but I recognize the value and the benefits of it and I am grateful my parents put me through it. At the same time, I recognize that my parents put in the extra 300% to ensure I became an individual who is both traditionally educated and independent of "the system," and who is not entirely dependent on them or anyone else to make my decisions or be hanging over my shoulder. Balance is the key, not extremity.

 
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November 24, 2006, 2:32 pm PST

Do what works for you

I am a Homeschool Mother of 2.  My husband and I are both products of the public school system, and I think we are both fairly intelligent, well educated people.  I absolutely LOVE Homeschooling!  It totally works in our life!  However, it is definitely not right for everyone.  We are all individuals.  As parents, we should realize what our talents and gifts are and give the most that we can to our children using those talents and gifts.  Not everyone is cut out to sit at home and teach all day.  Similarly, we cannot expect all children to excel in one way or the other.  Children all develop at different rates and need different things at different stages in their lives.  I personally know people on both sides of the fence.  I know people who have had successes and failures on both sides of the fence as well.

When we chose to Homeschool, it was simply that...a choice!  We respect all parents who work hard and try to do what is absolutely best for their children.  At this time, we personally feel we are doing what we think is best for our kids.  We feel that they are happy and well adjusted children.  We feel that they are learning and growing as they should be.  No one can predict the future.  We might one day change our mind.  But, for now, we do what we think is best.

As parents, if we could all just simply work hard at doing what we think is best for our kids, I feel like we could all benefit from each other.  Dr. Phil opened many people's eyes today and helped raise awareness for Homeschooling and Unschooling.  I feel like he did a good job of listing the facts and did not seem too biased. 

I simply wish we could all watch the show and learn and take something from it.  In the end, we should all realize that doing what is best for each individual child is really what matters.  The more we give to our kids and help them become the best they can be, the more it will benefit Humanity in the long run.

 
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November 24, 2006, 2:33 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: roundandround

I am a 16 year old fairly new radical unschooler. I attended a private school through 8th grade, moved onto a public school at 9th grade, and quit school at 14 going on 15. My parents knew nothing about unschooling before I began talking all about what I had found walking through my local library. A

t 14 and in my freshman year of highschool, I was incredibly...indifferent. I wasn't bullied, made fun-of, a poor student--teachers liked me and I got along with everybody. My body was going through the motions of waking up each morning, quickly finishing up last minute homework on the car ride to school, and rising and sitting at the sound of a loud bell. I was told where to go, when to go, and what to think when I got there. Oh, not bluntly, of course. I was given some choices. "A or B?, True or False?" I put in just enough effort to earn B's and A's, but there seemed little point to actually work hard. Why? For a gold sticker? Extra credit? WHY? I was told, "If you do well on this test, you will be able to earn a spot in that AP course, and if you earn that spot in that AP course, you will get into a good college." Then what? School was a game that fit squarly in a cardboard  box. I couldn't wait until I could push it behind the wooden chess board and actually take control! I was told I was being "prepared" for life. And that didn't do it for me.

I was lucky enough to have parents who were willing to give unschooling a try. And let me tell you, trying to explain what it feels like to  begin unschooling is like trying to describe an out of body experience. It was as if suddenly the entire world was fresh--utterly diving and wonderful and glorious. The sun was shining and I was OUT! Biking, jamming, feeling, feeling...I had missed feeling. And suddenly there were endless possibilies. And WONDER. Wonder. I had also forgotten what it was like to be curious--to wonder about things and ponder questions of humanity and creation and the stars. What makes what and who makes who? And a bell never rang telling me to "stop." I can't stop. I don't want to stop thinking about what lives under this rock, thank you very much :)

 I started a theater company and now other parents look at me in awe and say, "But my child could never do that! S/he is not as motivated as YOU." I want to scream, but I wasn't! I wasn't engaged, I wasn't excited, I wasn't motivated. This theater company MEANS a lot to me, so I work hard. And looking back...I've learned how to write press releases, analyze theatrical texts, write budgets, business e-mails, design postcards, use photoshop...the list goes on and on. And through just that company I've "socialized"/engaged on a deep level with people of all different ages and walks of life.

I have learned since school what it really means to be "true to oneself"  and to be honest. THIS is me. I fit into no mold, no little box, under no label. My parents don't know everything, in fact, being the sort of stubborn teenager I am, sometimes I think I know more than my parents! I learn from homeless women at the train station, my boss, my actors, my grandparents, the six year old next door--I discuss relativity over a bon fire, discuss World War II over hot chocolate and cookies, learn about South America by traveling there--hiking through cloud forests in Panama,  tasting the traditional foods of Peru, and wondering through villages of Belize.

I am living.

Living. And that is what unschooling means to me.

P.S. I kindly ask that you do not use any typos to prove my "lack of institutionalized education"--I have a play going up in a week and I am TIRED!

Thank you for this glorious post on unschooling!!!

 

I felt the same way in high school, but that was in the 70s before homeschooling was even a word (unless, maybe, you were the flower children of hippies on a commune, LOL).

 

I truly didn't come into my own until grad school, because FINALLY I was doing what I wanted to do with my life.  And I only went to grad school because, unfortunately, a doctorate is required for my line of work.

 

Kudos to you. :)

 
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November 24, 2006, 2:36 pm PST

Ridiculous!

I am 16 years old and find a lot of Dr. Phil's shows interesting. Today's show; however, made me extremely angry. Now, I agree that no school would be really cool, but I also think it's the stupidest idea I've ever heard of. Kid's should not have the option of choosing school or no school. Us kids are no where near being responsible enough to have such choices.

 

When Dana said that children should be created equal to adults when it comes to making choices, I found this to be a ridiculous arguement. I believe that sometimes a kid should have the right to make choices, but they shouldn't have the choice between no school and school. School provides kids structure. It helps them make choices in life. If a kid doesn't go to school, they probably should start practicing saying "Do you want fries with that?"

 

Another arguement of Dana's was that her kids will be able to get a good job. Well, pardon my french, but that is complete bull. No respectable company would give a job to someone who didn't go to school. Dana and her husband aren't helping their kids, they're destroying the kids' futures.

 

Finally, Joe said his school experience sucked. Well, that's his fault. He should have pushed himself to do better. It isn't the school's fault that he got C's. If he had taken the time to study or get some outside help, he probably wouldn't have gotten horrible grades. I am a junior in highschool right now, and I've had my share of bad grades, but that's because I didn't put the time in to get better grades. Sure, school is a huge stress factor, but it still is EXTREMELY helpful.

 

Dana and Joe need to put their kids in school. Otherwise, their kids' future will be horrible. They won't have a good job, and they won't make a lot of money. Watching this show made me realize that although I hate school sometimes, in reality, it is a good thing. I am glad my parents aren't into the "no-school" thing. If they were, I know that my future will not be good. I won't get into college, I'd probably end up working at McDonalds, and I won't be able to provide for a family. So, "Dana and Joe, get a clue!!!"

 

 

 
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November 24, 2006, 2:37 pm PST

Not the typical family

Quote From: brync36

Today's topic is something about home schooling, yet no one seems to be addressing the fact that these parents that have been on for the last 20 minutes are letting their children run the household! Not having any children myself, I have to question...is this a NORMAL thing today?? When I was a kid, I went to bed when I was told...I ate what was put on my plate at dinner time...and I was off the baby bottle WELL before the age of 5!!!
Clips of this couple turning their children into rip roaring brats have been playing throughout the entire episode thus far, but everyone keeps chattering on about home schooling! No wonder kids these days are turning into a bunch of disrespectful thugs..
From most of the people I have met through my homeschooling support groups and other activities, this family is on the other end of the spectrum with the behavior of the children and how they run their household. Most HS families I encounter have very self-motivated children who do have deadlines and consequences for schoolwork and chores as well.
 
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November 24, 2006, 2:37 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: momofmandb

First- Not all public school teachers are required to have a master's degree.  I know because I was a full-time teacher before having children.

 

Second- Degrees and courses on teaching methods do not necessarily make good teachers.

As a mother of three with a college education, I am now home schooling my 15 year old after I got so sick of all the garbage that goes on in public schools. My son's public school teachers were more concerned with how he looked at them, and petty complaints,  then what was being taught and what he was learning.   He complianed two years ago that teachers spent more time on teaching for the tests than teaching new materials.

 

My son is ADHD, been through the gammut of medication and is in several gifted classes and and IQ of 127.  He has a problem with doing homework but does very good on tests and computer homework compliance. He had a lot of problems with bullying last year which the school pretty much ignored, rumor control among the kids is out of control, and I had more complaints with petty crap than anything else. My son  actually gets too MUCH socialization in public schools because he gets distracted and likes to talk. I said enough is enough, I pulled him out and am now homeschooling him through OHVA and K12.com. He has had several  years of band(including marching) , sports and other socialization activites both in the community and in school.  BTW-with K12, they  sponsor family edcuational and socialization outings yearround and around the state, which is much more than public schools offer.

 

The home-schooling is structured the same as public school, he takes the same tests, has the same state regulated books, has virtual classrooms through Elluminate Live and I am required to meet  face-to-face with his teachers 4 times a year, which is MORE than what is required in the local public schools.  The differerence that I set my son's schedule according to what  I want . I can pull back  or speed up his schedule and he has the opiton of graduating early if he so chooses.

 

 My son gets much more done and the learning environment is MUCH more flexible and he doesn't have all the distractions and bullcrap of regular schools.  I should also mention since he has experienced public schools vs. home schooling through OHVA-k12.com, he LOVES the home- schooling so much more and learns more. OHVA focus's more on mastering the material over grades( which is how it should be) and he has the opportunity to move up in grade level when he can show he has mastered the state requirements. I don't have to worry about school lunch garbage, bullying, missing the school bus, snow day cancellations and petty teachers.

 

 

 

 
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