Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

Wonderful points.

Any number of ways - borrow or buy a book, find a mentor, take a class. The same way I would as a 41 year old adult. Unschooling does not mean you can't use the resources that are out there. It means that learning is interest driven rather than coercive. Both of those subjects can be learned by self study through a book if desired, and books are easily had. I suspect that a quick search would even find resources online. It's not as if either subject came full blown so that we've always had people teaching them either. :) Humans developed the subjects without lectures, so I suspect that more than a few humans can learn them with an appropriate text to guide them. Some might even start from first principles, but most people learn them to use them rather than of an interest in the calc or trig. The bigger question areas seem to come in the lab sciences, where past a certain point, there is hands on work that can't be done without a full lab. This applies equally to students attending a number of schools or distance education methods, so it's not unique to homeschooling. An unschooler might take a class for this, or if there are prerequisite courses, several classes. For those with a true passion in the area, there could be other opportunities if the person chooses to look for them. Even in our degree obsessed society, there are people in all fields who work outside the box and are willing to work with other passionate people in non standard ways, An interest might lead one to realizing a need to learn another topic as a precursor or to add depth to understanding of the topic of interest. It could also lead you to new discoveries that make you say "Wow! That's cool, I want to know more!" I was publicly educated, but my in depth learning came from what I learned because I followed my interests. I ended up a chemistry major because my interest in horses led to questions about veterinary care which led to wondering what was behind the medicines used. I'm sure it would have led other people to other places. My interest in horses was actively discouraged when I first told a guidance counselor of my interest in pursuing an equestrian science degree. I perservered, and found an interest in chemistry, but it certainly was not because of anything my schools did. My husband failed out of school because of a lack of engagemen. Today he is a sucessful computer programmer/language developer through following his interests. No degree, but he's been invited to attend and speak at conferences around the world, including on college campuses. Kids I know who unschool are following their own passions in the same way. There's the kid who was interested in military history to the exclusion of all else -- at least until he saw how knowiing geography, math and social history could help his understanding of his passion, at which point he took off in those areas. There's the now adult who runs his own business blowing glass. For him, the "basics" are what lets him run his business. His sister chose to go to college because she had an interest in a field that required a degree. There's my son, who is interested in attending the Coast Guard Academy, which accepts homeschoolers readily (or as readily as they accept anyone!) but requires that the homeschooler have used an accredited program. If he chooses to pursue the admission he will end up using a more formal curriculum. The key there is he will be doing it for his own reason, to reach HIS goal. It won't be me forcing him to do his work for that program. It will be his choice to do it to get where he wants to go. At it's core, unschooling is the belief that we learn best when we are interested in what we are learning. You can't force a person to learn. You can coerce them to attend a class or to take a test, but I'd be surprised if anyone reading this can honestly say that they really learned everything that they were presented with in their formal education. Learning can happen in myriad ways, from the formal class to the happenstance meeting. As unschooling parents, we choose to recognize that, helping our children find, and more importanly learn to find, ways to further their interests. Learning, no matter what form it takes, is never separated from living life.

 I do believe in traditional schooling, but that is only if I lived in a better area.   I am a single mom of  two boys and we live in a very high crime area.  It is also very high gangish area too.

 

If we lived in a area that was safer, then I would send my kids to a regular, more traditional school.  The schools in our neighborhood is over run by bullies, and my kids won't go to school because of the bulling that goes on.

 

There are so many bullies at the schools, that it is not safe for my kids to go.

 

I tried, I really tried to send my kids to the regular schools, and everytime something happens.

 

Our neighborhood is so infested with drugs and violence, that (believe it or not) even little preschoolers are doing the drugs with their parents.

 

The last time my son went to a regular school, he was coming home from school with his bike.  There is a certain street that has no stop sign, no crossing guard, and even though the speed limit is 30 people still go faster then that.  My son always walks his bike across this street.  One time he walked his bike across and some boy came out of no where and just grabbed the bike and took off.

 

The only thing the police said is that we should move.  I don't have money to move with other wise we would.

 

I don't do drugs, I am not an alcoholic.  I am stuck here.

 

Because of my neighborhood, I perfer to homeschool, and even this is not working out.

 

I need help to find a solution of what to do.

 

Any suggestions?

I agree with the lady who said this debate will never be resolved until we all learn to live with each others differences so to speak.  I homeschool my 3 children.  They are all thriving and passing test after test.  The school district I live in actually gave me the idea to homeschool my oldest daughter because she needed a greater challenge than what they could provide her.  They told me she would go down hill like the rest of them if I didn't do something about it now.  How's that for a school district, a pretty good one in fact?  My 6 year old is reading on a 1.7 grade level with 6 weeks of reading and spelling instruction that I gave her uncertified.  I really have COMPASSION for people who don't educate themselves on situations like this before making themselves vulnerable to other people's questions.  I would be hopeless to know President Bush didn't have time to educate, and use his knowledge on the important issues he faces daily with this country.  I never push my opinions on others, unless they can handle a great debate with research, education, and experience under their belt.  Then, and only then will I argue.  As for the school teachers- just go to a school blog for teachers (especially the reading/spelling blogs) and sit in their nightly discussions.  And you thought they actually care for the children sitting in their classes? wait until you hear them talking about you as a parent.  Reply back here when you've done that and read about 10 books on the school education and homeschooling.  Don't forget the book 'Dumbing us Down' a veteren school teacher is the author I believe. 

 We had our children in public school until one was in 4th and one was in 8th. My youngest has Autism and we were not getting help...so we home schooled her. She then asked to try public school again the next year..so, we let her. The fights began again with special ed and, after 3 months of teachers and kids picking on her, she asked me to home schooler her again. I will never forget that day. She came got in my car with tears in her eyes saying the teacher yelled at her in front of the kids and the kids started laughing at her. All because she did not open up her book fast enough for the teacher. She said she did not hear the teacher ask her to get out her book (she has auditory memory problems too). She said, "I just want you to teach me again; at least you never yelled at me....they are also teaching me stuff I learned last year; I don't want to learn that stuff all over again!"

So, I home schooled her again and she is doing much better.

About my oldest:

When she was in PS 7th grade, she took a MAP test and scored a 97% on the Math section of the test. That meant only 3% of the nation did better than her in 7th grade. This prompted Duke University Talent Identification Program to start looking at her AND the schools said she needed a higher Math class than what she was in. She got to take the college SAT with some seniors and scored a 310 on Verbal and a 420 on the Math (High School Senior questions).
In 8th grade, right before I pulled her to home school, she took Algebra 1 instead of 8th grade math. But, the kids started making fun of her so, she begged to go back to regular math again. Even after that, kids were hard on "the brain" (my child) in school and she started blowing off her homework and studies just to feel normal again and to fit in. Her grades dropped to F's and she almost failed the 8th grade. 3 months before school finished...she had enough and asked to be home schooled but, seemed to regret it after being pulled out. I gave her an 8th grade diagnostic test from AOP to see if she would have passed the 8th grade; she did.

Now, in 9th grade and home schooled, she is having a great time. She siad she would not go back to PS....but, I also have her in after school activities with other kids. Now, finishes all her work VERY early. So early that I am sure she would get answers wrong in her work....she makes A's and B's though! I am now wondering if 9th grade math is too easy for her, like it was in public school, and I think I might have to give her a placement test to see if she should be in an advanced math class after all.

Those with the means (ie: The RICH), do NOT send their children to Public Schools.
Since I do not have the means, I choose to homeschool.

     According to this website... "Jay, after scoring two touchdowns in the eighth grade at Cisterian Prep School.".....

The boys attended "PREP" school.
So I suppose Public School was not good enough for his children?
And it is not good enough for my kids either.

Please be assured that this philosophy of parenting and preparing them and guiding them into adulthood is not new.  The media makes it look as if it's this suddenly new thing that parents who just fell off a haywagon conceived of last Wednesday, but speaking in more modern times, it's decades old.  (Historically, it's centuries old)

People tend to seem worried about "how will they turn out?"  Rather than asking the question, the answer is contained in the answer to "How have they turned out?"  Look into recent history, as recent as the 60's and 70's when only "fringe hippies" were stereotyped to have unschooled.

These children in the 60's and 70's are now grown up and they are not illiterate or innumerate.  Many of them (in my circle of acquaintances) make 65-80K per year, some earn a more modest income, but none of them are "flipping burgers".

For decades and centuries it used to be a given that parents knew what was best for their children.  It's only recently that we as a culture have accepted interference and denial of that core fact.

Whenever I see the "end up back in the public schools" line in a homeschooling discussion, I have to wonder if the original poster has gone further back to check where the kids stood before they were pulled out of the schools or talked to the parents about why they pulled the kids. It's so easy to say that the problems are because of homeschooling, but those problems are just as likely to have been there before hand. Parents who send their kids to public school to start often need a pretty big reason to choose to homeschool. From running homeschool information nights, problems with academic levels and problems with the special ed system not meeting needs are very high on the list of reasons people start looking for more information. The other problem I've seen is that parents who pull their kids expect changes overnight. It just doesn't happen that way. The child needs some time to adjust to the new situation (as does the parent) and if they don't give themselves time to find their own family rhythym and style, they're likely to give up. Homeschooling requires the flexibility to change course if needed, and that is something that comes hard to some new homeschoolers.