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Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

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Created on : Friday, November 17, 2006, 12:57:50 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Parents want the best for their children, but what’s the best way to educate them? Dr. Phil’s guests face off in a debate about whether to school, homeschool or unschool. Dana and her husband, Joe, call themselves radical unschoolers. They say education happens as a side effect of life, and they don’t believe in tests, curriculums or grades. Are their three kids learning what they need to know? Then, RaeAnn says public schools are death traps and wants to homeschool her children. Her husband, Steve, says their kids are safer at school than they are at home. Can this couple reach a compromise? Plus, Nicole feels like an outcast at 26. She says she hated being homeschooled, and couldn’t relate to other kids. Share your thoughts here.

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November 27, 2006, 12:26 pm PST

homework

Dr. Phil,

Most parents that help their children with homework are homeschooling. With all the policing and managing of bulging classrooms a student is too distracted to learn much of anything from the teacher in the actual school room. They start bringing home their work as early as kindergarten and the parents spend their evenings getting them to do the work. Gone are the days when a kid gets to come home to just play with their friends. Kids are rushed off to ballet, soccer, baseball, babysitters etc. What has happened to the art of developing an imagination.

 

We live in a close-knit neighborhood in a suburb of Seattle. Nearly all the kids here are in public or private school. My kids have interacted with these kids since birth. We, however, chose to homeschool. Our oldest is 34, married with one child who is 5. He is the reason for our decision. Our son has Apraxia which made learning difficult - I could spend hours talking about it but I'm trying to keep this brief. When he was 11 we pulled him out of school. The improvemnt was fantastic especially for his emotional stability. He was a difficult child who, I'm sure, would have gone down  the wrong path had we not taken this step. We chose to homeschool, we did it out of neccessity for our son. When our son was 16 we had another son and 5 years later a daughter. Our plan from the start was to homeschool them. We spent lots of time reading to them, playing with them, providing them with toys that encouraged their imaginations. The library was their favorite place in the world. When our daughter was 1 we got rid of the TV except for movies - mainly because I was addicted to talk shows - LOL. As toddlers we were involved in neighborhood playgroups at each others houses. Since I was much older than some of these women and having already raised one child I was so sad to see so many of these ladies talk about  childcare, nannys, "structured activities" away from the parents. Many kids had two or three different activities. When these kids weren't being shipped from one place to another as our kids got older they would be able to run next door or accross the street to play with their friends. Our son, whenever possible, could play for hours and in total silence, I might add, with his Legos. When his 3 favorite buddies could come over they would invent hours of very involved games. This is what I call learning at its best. Our daughter loved books and was reading by age 4. I totally loved watching the "lightbulb" go on whenever one of my kids would catch onto something we were working on. Most parents only get that feeling when a child takes his first steps or speaks her first words - I got to see it over and over again. Imagine catching your child in the act of reading their first chapter book without being told. Let me try to fast - forward now: like I said earlier our oldest is 34, has a good job where he is reliable and works circles around everyone ( his gifts a physical 6'3" and very strong) he's married (6yrs), our next son is nearly 19 and in the "Running Start" program at our local community college where he studies Computer Science. This was his first time ever in a school. He is on the Deans list and is well liked by all age people. He has been a paid math and computer tutor  for his fellow students. He was a competitive iceskater with his girlfriend and icedance partner. He is now employed at the local ice rink where he is reliable and hardworking and liked very much by all ages for his quick wit and sense of humor.  He has always wanted to be part of our military and has joined the Marines where he will enter bootcamp after graduation from college. Our daughter is nearly 14 and maintains a 3.9-4.0 gpa. She studies math (algebra, geometry), Language Arts, Bible (11th grade) and US Government (12th grade).

 

Homeschooling is not for everyone but if you look at statistics you will see that it is quite successful. Kids can thrive and be happy. Most homeschooled kids come from 2 parent, traditional families and function well in that unit being able to participate in all the workings of the home. My kids are totally able to cook, clean, manage their money, mow the lawn, take care of various pets and so on.

 

One more note: I usually don't agree totally with anything that has the word "radical" attached to it, however even a middle of the road approach to homeschooling might be considered "radical" to some. The bottom line is if you love your kids and truly want what is best for them you will do what it takes to get them to that point by being INVOLVED in their lives. 

 

Mollie            

 
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November 27, 2006, 12:26 pm PST

lol

Quote From: danidawn3345

Running to isolation.  Oh, you make me giggle with that comment.  We have a community which is strong, providing our children with social and academic experiences.  We are FAR from isolated.  My family is out in our community with fellow homeschoolers at least three work days per week.  Most of the day.  With children of all ages.  With families from varying backgrounds.  With varying educational styles.  It's really pretty cool. (and that doesn't count field trips, that's just the regular weekly activities). <grin>  We will be camping this weekend in a youth area of a local campground with other isolated homeschooles. <grin>  Isolation... <shaking head>

All I can say is good for you.  You make a great counterpoint.  I hope more like you are out there.  I'd be much more comfortable with the idea.
 
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November 27, 2006, 12:29 pm PST

Check, But Not Checkmate

Quote From: alasandra2003

I too belong to an inclusive group and if asked to describe myself would probably say free thinking Christian.

 

We even teach evolution. ;>)

My line of thinking is very similar.  When it comes to evolution, I personally believe creationism was done throught the process of evolution.  Strange, huh?
 
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November 27, 2006, 12:31 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: dnurkle

Florida is not only quite stringent with their homeschool 'laws, statutes,regulations...whatevers' - each county requires reporting, testing and registering.  BUT they are also one of the most homeschool friendly states we have lived in - (we've been in CA, NC, AL too) and have much of the support systems set up to suppliment the academics.

 

It is in my opinion one of the BEST states in which to homeschool.

 

Donna

 

 

Okay, when I was an administrator of a school in Florida, and I KNEW of a child who was home under the guise of homeschooling but was actually truant (and probably stoned), I questioned my district coordinator when the child did not take the state exam. I understand there are other options for testing, but I was told it would probably take more than a year for the state to catch up to him.

 

I noticed that there are new regulations on the Florida DOE website. Have the regulations changed? My experience was about six years ago. This child roamed the neighborhood for the majority of the school year. I saw nothing stringent in how this was handled, and I was quite disturbed over the lack of concern. The attitude seemed to be, "There's not much we can do about it."

 
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November 27, 2006, 12:32 pm PST

Education

Quote From: dnurkle

Florida is not only quite stringent with their homeschool 'laws, statutes,regulations...whatevers' - each county requires reporting, testing and registering.  BUT they are also one of the most homeschool friendly states we have lived in - (we've been in CA, NC, AL too) and have much of the support systems set up to suppliment the academics.

 

It is in my opinion one of the BEST states in which to homeschool.

 

Donna

 

 

Thank you for that bit of education!  :)
 
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November 27, 2006, 12:33 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: winterwarmth

I have been reading your posts and I do see your point.  I don't feel the slightest bit agitated by anything I am really seeing on this board.  Although my stating that I won't apologize for unschooling may have appeared a little defensive, that wasn't my intention.

I don't know how familiar with my posts in particular (realistically, the posts are all flying by and I don't expect any one person to read everything I specifically write), but although I unschool, I'm not particularly interested in whether some people feel one way of education is better vs another.  For me, if a child is thriving and growing and confident in who they are and prepared to take on new challenges, it's ALL good.

Our family's needs simply didn't fit the structure of the public schools, and so we started homeschooling, then gradually made the drift into unschooling, as the children were learning much more outside the curriculum than in it anyway.

When talking to people in our off line life, we do use the term "homeschooling" though, because while it is still in the realm of "different", at least people have stopped with the blanching of their faces.  To outright say "unschooler" would be a big kick-me sign at this point, and for us, we pick our battles.  Sometimes, after a full day, we want to pull the buzzer when the bus gets to our stop and go home :-)

Doesn't mean we avoid opinions contrary to our own (otherwise I'd not be here and my children wouldn't be also reading this board), but there is more to us than our "method of education", and it gets old after a while.  I play guitar, I am adept in (and a teacher of) fiber crafts, I sing alto, my favorite color is maroon... one of many many topics you'd find us enthusiastically expounding upon.

Best,
WW
Just so you know, I read everything you write :)
 
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November 27, 2006, 12:34 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: m1ste00

These are just a few homeschooled people from our past, that made our country what it is today.

Stonewall Jackson and Robert E. Lee.  

Alexander Graham Bell,,,,,The Wright Brothers!  George Washington, Abe Lincoln, Thomas Jefferson, Theodore Roosevelt, Moses, Joan of Arc, Albert Einstein, Booker T. Washington, Winston Churchill, Supreme Court Justice John Marshall, Agatha Christie, Charles Dickens, Ansel Adams and his wife Abigail, Charles Chaplan, Sandra Day OConnor, pretty impressive huh?  Texas A&M Pres. Frank Vandiver,  John Witherspoon Princeton President.....

Leonardo DaVinci and WolfGang Amadeus Mozart.

Our children CAN be anything!!  Cool, huh?

 

Don't lock yourself so tight into a belief.  Explore just a little and you'll see their are advantages and disadvantages to everything.  FYI...I homeschool and have an older child in public school in a different jurisdiction.  I do both sides every day.  So I am able to see both sides clearly.

 

Likewise with us.  We unschool, and some of our children were public school students, and I do after-school care for many public school children.

One of the interesting things I see (not from you, specificially, but while I have the floor I'll make this segue...) is that sometimes people believe that homeschoolers want to segregate their children and only teach them their religion. 

Two thoughts spring to mind when pondering this issue. The first is, we have a specific faith which we teach and practice in our home, but yet, we encourage our children to be well rounded in a knowledge about all kinds of faiths and cultures.  World religion and politics is a frequent topic in our home.  Our children often are invited to attend the churches of their friends as visitors and find the experience very rewarding.

The second is this.  I don't know if we're the only place on earth that is this multicultural, but just looking around our province (I am in Canada), reveals Catholic Schools, Hindu school, Seventh-Day Adventist schools, Jewish schools, Greek Orthodox Schools, Non-Denominational Christian Schools, you name it, there's a school for it.  It's not just "after school hours" either, these are real schools with real tuitions which hard working people sometimes get second jobs to pay for.  These people are "indoctrinating their children", are they not?

 
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November 27, 2006, 12:37 pm PST

Clearly misguided...

Quote From: tinkerbell123

Your view is what is wrong with society today!! what ever happened to "all for one, and one for all".  You use the word "Lord" in your writing, so I am sure your aware that God sacrificed himself for "all" children not just for "His" children.  My statement did NOT read you must put your child out to be slaughtered.  I worry about MY children first also, and I have raised three beautiful young girls, I want to teach them that, I as a parent, do not know it all, but I will be their to guide them through as many expereinces as I can.  Some will be good and others will be bad. 

Jesus Christ died on the cross for all mankind...who CHOOSE to get saved and become Christians. This is when we become HIS children.  Those who aren't saved are not His children and will not inherit the Kingdom of God...however, that is a totally different topic and way off of the true issue here.

 

I have a neice and 2 nephews who are sent to public school.  I can assure you that although they have been brought up in a Christian home, it is not these children who have pulled up the rest, but instead have been pulled down by others. 

 

 In a post I wrote earlier, I clearly stated that other children (and adults) are not good sources of influence and teaching for the correct standards that we insist our children uphold.  Other families have other beliefs, which is their right.  It is NOT their right, however, to infringe those beliefs upon my family.

 

Here is a question for you:  If there were a worldwide spread of a deadly disease and your child was the only person on earth whose body carried the antibody for this disease, yet he would have to die in order for them to extract it, would you let them kill your son?  To save millions? 

 

Most of us wouldn't.  I know I couldn't do it.  My children are God-given blessings.  God loved and trusted me enough to entrust me with something so precious and special.  I don't take that responsibility lightly...and I won't do ANYTHING that will harm them...no matter how good it may be for others.

 

BTW..."One for all and all for one" is the slogan of the Three Musketeers...it really has nothing to with God, public education, or the government. 

 

 
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November 27, 2006, 12:39 pm PST

Surprise

Quote From: winterwarmth

I have been reading your posts and I do see your point.  I don't feel the slightest bit agitated by anything I am really seeing on this board.  Although my stating that I won't apologize for unschooling may have appeared a little defensive, that wasn't my intention.

I don't know how familiar with my posts in particular (realistically, the posts are all flying by and I don't expect any one person to read everything I specifically write), but although I unschool, I'm not particularly interested in whether some people feel one way of education is better vs another.  For me, if a child is thriving and growing and confident in who they are and prepared to take on new challenges, it's ALL good.

Our family's needs simply didn't fit the structure of the public schools, and so we started homeschooling, then gradually made the drift into unschooling, as the children were learning much more outside the curriculum than in it anyway.

When talking to people in our off line life, we do use the term "homeschooling" though, because while it is still in the realm of "different", at least people have stopped with the blanching of their faces.  To outright say "unschooler" would be a big kick-me sign at this point, and for us, we pick our battles.  Sometimes, after a full day, we want to pull the buzzer when the bus gets to our stop and go home :-)

Doesn't mean we avoid opinions contrary to our own (otherwise I'd not be here and my children wouldn't be also reading this board), but there is more to us than our "method of education", and it gets old after a while.  I play guitar, I am adept in (and a teacher of) fiber crafts, I sing alto, my favorite color is maroon... one of many many topics you'd find us enthusiastically expounding upon.

Best,
WW
First, may I thank you for the response?  You are clearly very literate and have a well rounded education.  It is with all the certainty possible that I say I am sure your children will be well educated.  You may be surprised to know that I absolutely despised school.  Everything I see people pointing out that is negative in public education I have experienced.  I have learned far more away from school than in it.  My saving grace in terms of learning is that I love to read and to listen to others.  So, as you may see, I am not as anti-option as I appear.  Best wishes.
 
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November 27, 2006, 12:45 pm PST

Exactly

Quote From: purplepenny

I was talking about one specific person. I'm sorry that wasn't clear. But the way this person I am talking about unschools is very very disturbing and ridiculous to me.
I have know several home schooling people as well.  I have found your comment to be true in some cases and not in others.  I believe that is what you meant anyway.  It appears you were misunderstood.
 
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