Dr. Phil.com - Messageboards - 11/24 Great School Debate

winterwarmth

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November 28, 2006, 1:53 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: _marie_

Totally not an option for me...hehehe

But you know, mys sis is USC alumnus and her husband has a masters in business administration...they aren't nearly as intellectually as stunted as I am...and they STILL choose traditional schooling for their own kids.

My dad comes from a long line of educators...he has double degrees in engineering...and his family even has a foundation to assist students through college.

I have to wonder...why is it unschoolers eventually acknowledge that university is a goal? If their child's education is really driven by THE CHILD...why would a child need to sit through boring lectures by boring profs?

If unschooling really is that viable an education, why not unschool all the way through, and expect to get a job pays 6 figures without university?

Marie

There are many unschoolers who want to pursue professions which require degrees and legitimate proof that they've had the training required. The child's education is driven by the child, but that often means knowing the means by which they must accomplish it. They'll pursue the same officiation later in life, and most likely, because of their zeal and ebullience for the topic, getting the documentation necessarily will be a formality for them.

I know many unschooled teens (grads) who are going through this right now.

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mammato4boys

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November 28, 2006, 2:01 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: lindada

I notice many of the positngs are from families that can afford excursions and trips, books , and lessons. I feel echos of the classic English example of nanny lessons in the nursery and the loyal french speaking governess spared the rich from interacting with the unwashed masses. I notice that many of the postings are from the parents of 4-10 year olds; this is very telling. Where are the postings from the 15 years olds parents?

I feel echos of the classic English example of nanny lessons in the nursery and the loyal french speaking governess spared the rich from interacting with the unwashed masses.

I don't really see the similarities. Can you explain?

My husband is active duty Army, he certainly does not qualify as rich.

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winterwarmth

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November 28, 2006, 2:10 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: purplepenny

Like I've said before, I know you might find it hard to believe, but I have seen parents, out of their own kind of convenience, keep their kids out of school.

Also, I don't care how much any kid watches TV. I only care that their brains get the basics to function in society. That they learn to read well enough and do basic math and learn basic communication skills.

SOME home schooled kids I have seen were not able to do these things, even as teenagers.

I have never said I want some kind of strict regulation. But I think not teaching a child to read and do basic math at the LEAST is as abusive and as dangerous as not feeding them or bathing them or even verbally abusing them.

And I agree, people will abuse ANY system, public school OR home schooling. I have seen people abuse both with my own eyes.

"However, nobody monitored the "fringe unschooling hippies" of the 60s and 70s and many of those people are now successful (financially and otherwise) and are also unschooling their own children."

And again, I really really don't understand why you, you are very intelligent, would make a sweeping comment like this. You don't know that all of those people are now successful.

I apologize if my comment came across as sweeping, I was only talking about the ones I know.
And no, I don't find it hard to believe that people may keep their kids out of school for weird reasons. Like I said, people abuse all kinds of systems. People abuse being discharged from the hospital after giving BIRTH! Why would keeping kids home for weird reasons or personal abuse reasons and calling it homeschool come as a surprise to me?

And you are correct. I obviously have not met every "fringe hippie" out there, but I've been around, and I've seen good and bad in every one.

But "tv vegetables" come from all kinds of educational backgrounds. They also exist in summer vacation, after school hours, on days off work, they are everywhere.

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_marie_

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November 28, 2006, 2:20 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: alasandra2003

I can only speak for my son, but he had no problem getting up, getting dressed and getting to college/his job on time after being homeschooled.

On the other hand many of his public school co-workers show up late, or call in sick because they have hangovers and he has to work over or fill in for them.

Yes, you can only speak for your son.

The coworkers he had to fill in for have a poor work ethic because THEY have a poor work ethic. It has nothing to do with public, home or unschooling!

My son goes to public university with COUNTLESS PEERS who have been schooled publicly, who hold 1 even 2 jobs to put themselves through school, because as INDIVIDUALS they have a strong work ethic because they CHOOSE to...and what is even MORE notable is that some of these kids come from gravely dsyfunctional families!

The fact that your child has a strong work ethic has NOTHING to do with his schooling. He has a strong character...just as some of my son's peers have strong characters...and this can be built up because of OR IN SPITE of their parents involvement.

Marie

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danidawn3345

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November 28, 2006, 2:34 pm PST

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt

Quote From: mammato4boys

Have any of you taken your children visit various public schools in order to expose them to the goings on within these learning institutions? To better understand how the majority of children in society are being educated? To better understand what a teacher does?

No, we haven't done that field trip yet.

But we have visited the local board of education.

I apologize if this is a double post. I posted, but it brought up this box again. Long and short of it, yes, both of my children have been to school. 13yo did through spring of 1st grade, and then when we began homeschooling she continued to go to the Gifted Student Program at the public school until fifth grade. Actually (and this wasn't in my missing post) we did a bit in 4th grade where the school let her come for math and activity (art, PE, music, etc.) every day, but that only lasted about three weeks, when she realized it was cutting into the time she enjoyed learning at home. My 9yo went to GSP for 1st grade. Occasionally they get the thought that it might be cool to go to school, but then they snap out of it. I encourage them to go if they wish (although I don't prefer that for them.) I guess they're happy homeschooling because there isn't anything the public school offers that we as a homeschool community do not (or cannot if we decide to) recreate for them. I challenge anyone to come up with something that the public school offers that we can't do as a homeschool community (or that they can do by law with the public school at the secondary level - like marching band, etc.)

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julie1418

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November 28, 2006, 2:34 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: mammato4boys

I feel echos of the classic English example of nanny lessons in the nursery and the loyal french speaking governess spared the rich from interacting with the unwashed masses.

I don't really see the similarities. Can you explain?

My husband is active duty Army, he certainly does not qualify as rich.

You have FOUR boys, you are homeschooling, AND your husband is on active duty?? All right, now I am impressed!

You also look younger than I imagined....I have two toddler boys at home, my husband travels for his job quite a bit, and the gray hairs are coming in fast and furious! LOL!

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purplepenny

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November 28, 2006, 2:38 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: winterwarmth

Many people may not follow my posts specifically, but I am an unschooler who posts about unschooling. What people may need to be reminded of, is the fact that even though I am an unschooler with my family, we are not against the essential service that is unschooling.

Unschoolers harbor no wishes that public school be abolished some day. What good would that do? Some people need the service and some people don't.

I'm glad about that. I know public school isn't perfect, but it's a lot more than kids all over the world get. I think it's an amazing part of our country, even with it's flaws.

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danidawn3345

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November 28, 2006, 2:39 pm PST

LOL, Far from Wealthy

Quote From: lindada

I notice many of the positngs are from families that can afford excursions and trips, books , and lessons. I feel echos of the classic English example of nanny lessons in the nursery and the loyal french speaking governess spared the rich from interacting with the unwashed masses. I notice that many of the postings are from the parents of 4-10 year olds; this is very telling. Where are the postings from the 15 years olds parents?

You have me giggling. My family is far from wealthy. We are not poor, but we are certainly not rich. We have traveled from FL to ME, to AZ and to AK, because we're good at what we do. We were working as travel writers at the time. :) Lowered our costs unbelievably! We do scrimp on some things so that we can afford to go to Ren Faires, museums, and other trips, and we participate with Girl Scouts, raising a lot of funds for great enrichment trips and activities (our troop just spent a week in Savannah at the whopping cost of $15/girl out of pocket - they're quite good at selling those cookies!). Oh, and I have a teen, too! Imagine that!

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winterwarmth

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November 28, 2006, 2:39 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: lindada

I notice many of the positngs are from families that can afford excursions and trips, books , and lessons. I feel echos of the classic English example of nanny lessons in the nursery and the loyal french speaking governess spared the rich from interacting with the unwashed masses. I notice that many of the postings are from the parents of 4-10 year olds; this is very telling. Where are the postings from the 15 years olds parents?

I replied once before to this post to explain how I am not rich.

Also, some friends of mine work an extra job just to pay for the clothing costs they must slap on their children to give them even a crap shoot chance at not being a target. Some of the clothing per child was what our grocery bill is for a couple of months! They had to credit card some of that stuff! We've use our credit card for real emergencies, not fancy clothing. My children used to be in public school and I know first hand the expenses that come with it. On top of non-flexible brand name requirements for school supplies, which, when you have 4 children, adds up, clothes, packagable recesses with a popular brand name on them (just TRY sending your kid to recess with store brand apple sauce, it's ASKING for it), crocs (one girl forgot the croc requirement and was not made to forget it), on top of fund raising and field trips, I would have had to work full time just to afford THAT!

I spend less now on clothes for each of my children (and they are WELL clothed), toys and hobbies and field trips, library books and bought books, field trips and seminars (offered for free), you name it we get it, than I used to for one child, alone!

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julie1418

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November 28, 2006, 2:45 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: alasandra2003

I guess you haven't been reading my post. I am currently homeschooling my 15 year old son. I homeschooled my 17 year old until he started college at 16.

There are plenty of homeschooled teens, in our area.

BTW we are by no means rich, we are merely middle class. We decided to make educating our children our priority.

We decided to make educating our children our priority.

As I would imagine most good parents do. Some just come to different conclusions than you.

There is a very good, highly reputable private school in my area. It is quite expensive, but we could afford it. We are still leaning towards the public school system. Neither my husband or I grew up wealthy (working class), and we are hesitant to give our children the impression the affluent lifestyle of most of the children at the school is the norm. I am sure most of the students and parents there are wonderful, but we are a bit uncomfortable with the students driving luxury cars to school. We want our children to have a first hand appreciation of what is a necessity and what truly is a luxury. I am not sure that being surrounded by affluence is in the best interest of my children.

You see, EVERY aspect of how I raise my children is a PRIORITY for us (just like most parents). We are carefully considering all our options, and we come to decisions based on what we feel best meets our priorities and values. I am not saying that I would NEVER consider private schools or even homeschools, but we are VERY thoughtful in our decision process.

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11/24 Great School Debate

11/24 Great School Debate

11/24 Great School Debate

11/24 Great School Debate

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt

11/24 Great School Debate

11/24 Great School Debate

LOL, Far from Wealthy

11/24 Great School Debate

11/24 Great School Debate