Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

just because the public school system isn't perfect that some how home schooling should be a free for all...

I didn't say that at all. The jist is: why use a measurement tool that has been found to be faulty by the very institution that created it? Why model homeschooling (statistically a successful institution) after public schooling (statistically a flawed system)? The first generation of homeschoolers in over a century recently reached adulthood and surprise! they have done so well that colleges and Ivy League universities are now actively recruiting homeschoolers. That is what we call 'quanitifiable success'. It is the stuff of logic and impartial decision-making. I don't see what more involvement the public schools system can possibly add to the homeschooling experience. I only see a million ways that they could take it over and create yet another failure.

These are my kids we're talking about. Failure is not an option. I have the right to provide them with the quality education they deserve. No one else has the right to interfere. That's how I see it.

Exactly!

I find the sometimes lax and vastly differing state by state regulations in both homeschooling and unschooling may produce a potentially dangerous society.

Education is paramount in a fully functioning society.  I AM not stating that any of these options be denied to it's citizens.  No.

I am urging that all educators be held accountable in their efforts and that all students be closely monitored through the governments.

That's it - that's all; accountability and adhering to a specific set of regulated standards that are monitored are very important for me.

I would think that any really wonderful homeschooling parents would welcome this sort of criteria.  As it would lay to rest the idea that their motives aren't simply justified due to laziness, fear, over-protectiveness..... etc.

Many many parents should and do homeschool amazingly well.  Sadly many others do not. 

Therefore having more stringent and a more watchful government eye on both the teachers and the students would only serve to benefit this cause IMO.  Thereby creating a better educated child regardless of the method of education chosen.

Fredi

Public schools statistically have been going downhill quickly for decades. The standards are now so low that an intelligent spider monkey could graduate, and yet many students can't. I believe an educational institution that accepts 40% wrong as a passign grade is flawed. I believe that after 13 years of school, one should know basic reading and math. So I guess we just hold education to different standards.

If "fixing the tests" was easy or remotely possible, I should hope it would already have been done.

Actually, hardly any of the men who founded our country were Christian. Most were deists and unitarians. If you are home schooling your kids I would hope you would teach them actual facts.

Here is a link to a list of the self-professed religions of the founding fathers. Note that they are all some form of Christian denomination. One says he is Episcopalian and Deist, but lists Episcopalian first. The only Unitarians are Unitarian Congregationalists, a Protestant denomination. This is what they actually called themselves, not the opinion of a historian born 200 years later.

http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html#Declaration 

I do teach actual facts. Apparently the public schools do not?

Wow! Talk about taking something out of context! Here is the post you were referring to ....

Assume the very worst case scenario. You got to the point where you decided you wanted to be an english teacher but had not bothered with English skills. What then? Is the dream over? From watching unschooled kids and older self-directed learners what happens (with them at least) is they simply go out and get the skills they need. Then they pursue the dream. Would you have really looked at your lack of English and decided it was an insurmountable obstacle? I really doubt it.

My response:

It depends on the degree to which I was lacking the skills. If my parents let me get to adulthood without being able to so much as read a newspaper, I'd be pretty pissed with them. If I couldn't construct a sentence or communicate effectively because I preferred to chase butterflies, I would say my parents had failed to do their jobs as parents.

Now I realize that is most likely not the case with your children or other "unschooled" children, but if you are going to ask me how bad is the worse case scenario, I think the worst case scenario is rather frightening.

I find it rather disingenuous to cherry pick one statement out of context and use it to paint an inaccurate picture.

It's not just the matter of spelling. She didn't even get it when I corrected it! She wanted it sent out to parents and assumed they would understand her meaning. She was a nice lady in many ways, but she was in deep denial about her own lack of skills.

But without willing, dedicated parents, it's not going to work.

I agree. I also don't think traditional schooling has a great shot at succeeding without dedicated, willing parents.

All I was saying before was that the unschooled kids I know are not getting any education at all. Their parents aren't doing anything to provoke learning or expose instances to learn.

Then why don't you report them for educational neglect and let the 'experts' decide?   There may be mitigating circumstances, ie the kids are autistic, special needs, etc.  And not every kid (public, private, homeschool, or unschool) is going to be 'advanced.'

Where are these true homeschool failures?  I'd wager they're extremely rare.  But these failures are touted as being 'high' and that the kids are 'behind'.  To me it's the proverbial straw man scare tactics to convince those parents on the fence that maybe, just maybe, they should leave education to the professionals.

As far as those here wanting homeschoolers to be forced to take standardized testing, even private schools in my state are exempt from these.  It speaks to the fact that private schools have a different agenda than public (ie Catholic Schools).  Many homeschoolers chose to homeschool for the fact that schools are now so geared to 'teach to the test' and test scores are so highly over-emphasized.  I applaud the 10th grade students who purposely threw the test to make their point.  The emphasis on testing is ridiculous, and for all of the purported raising the standards and no child left behind, the truly intelligent students and gifted students are the ones falling through the cracks. 

There is no such thing as one-size-fits-all education.  Our schools are geared toward the middle ground.  Special Ed gets its share of the money, but the smart students are bored out of their minds and labeled ADHD. 

I didn't say it was statisticaly unsuccessful, did I? Why all the straw man arguments? I said it was statistically flawed.

You can argue with the homeschool test scores, but Stanford doesn't.

Please read my post again. I stated that it was difficult to find teachers who are qualified to teach higher maths and sciences because their skills give them the ability to acquire higher paying jobs elsewhere. We cannot FORCE highly skilled people to take the lowest paying job available to them given their skills.

Your father is lucky. I had ten years experience AND a Masters degree and I wasn't making $30,000. Believe me, I was putting in FAR more than the 37 hour workweek. Between being the school newspaper sponsor and the drama coach, AND grading writing papers for the over 150 students I saw each day, I worked about 60 hours a week.