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Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

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Created on : Friday, November 17, 2006, 12:57:50 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Parents want the best for their children, but what’s the best way to educate them? Dr. Phil’s guests face off in a debate about whether to school, homeschool or unschool. Dana and her husband, Joe, call themselves radical unschoolers. They say education happens as a side effect of life, and they don’t believe in tests, curriculums or grades. Are their three kids learning what they need to know? Then, RaeAnn says public schools are death traps and wants to homeschool her children. Her husband, Steve, says their kids are safer at school than they are at home. Can this couple reach a compromise? Plus, Nicole feels like an outcast at 26. She says she hated being homeschooled, and couldn’t relate to other kids. Share your thoughts here.

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purplepenny
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December 4, 2006, 1:58 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: momofbrw

We are not unschoolers but I did want to make a point in regards to HOW we learn...  My DD just turned 2.  She is amazing.  I do not school her in any way, shape or form except she's around when I school her brother and her Daddy often reads a nightime story.  (That is the extent of us teaching to her.)  She can answer questions that many adults couldn't.  She knows almost as many spanish words as she does english words.  She can tell you the roots of many words and even recite spelling rules... just from hearing me teach her 2nd grade brother.  I am very very strongly against pushing a child to learn ANYTHING too early. When I first started to notice her learning so fast, I was freaked out but it is teaching me a lot about learning styles and abilities.  It has some to do with parenting, it has some to do with teachings but some children are cabable of learning where neither is present (parenting or teachings).

Yes exactly. And for another family, it might go the exact opposite way.
 
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purplepenny
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December 4, 2006, 1:58 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: momofbrw

I made a list once but the pros of public school were very few.  The cons for homeschooling so few.  The cost of private was not an option so we tried homeschooling.  We learned that all the stuff we had heard about homeschooling and assumed was true was actually BS and there went the cons.
I meant to reply to this post...sorry.
 
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bamps65
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December 4, 2006, 2:36 am PST

When to Interfere

I cannot thank you enough for having the school debate. It is a subject very close to my heart. I have five grandchildren. Two have been raised by parents who consider education very important. My other three grandchildren have not been so fortunate. They are 15, 13, and 10. The parents have moved more than 30 times since they have married. They do not have a steady income. The two oldest began going to a church school. The 10 year did not go to school until this year! We have tried to help in monetary ways by sending money for food shelter and clothing. After all this time, my daughterinlaw did decide to enroll the two oldest in public school. They were considered learning disabled and the parents receive a Social Security check for each child. They were promptly taken out of public school and were presently being "home schooled" until the family had enough and reported them to Child Protection Services. At that time everyone was living in a truck! My feeling is we waited too long. All three children were put in Guardian homes and the court hearings having being going on since July 2006. These children need so much theraputic foster care-the guardians cannot handle this and their own families at the same time. So this week it will be decided by a judge as to whether they go back to their parents or are placed in foster homes. In any event, what rights as a grandmother do I have to oversee the education of these children. Without some kind of checks and balances, I believe they don't stand a chance for a positive future. What do you think? 
 
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winterwarmth
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December 4, 2006, 3:38 am PST

TV and us

Quote From: sneakers145

Also, most HS/US I know as they do not censor TV- they just don't allow it. 

 

I missed this in the original post and am too lazy to go search for it.

 

I can't speak for homeschoolers, but as radical unschoolers, we have no limits on TV.  And no, we don't censor it or use the V-chip or any other parental controls.

Exactly :)

In our family we don't technically have a television.  We have our computer with a video card in it which allows us to play DVDs, Video Cassettes, and have access to the locally available television channels, which we as a family schedule, with a tivo knockoff program - all of which we view on our computer.

We also enjoy watching people's independent filming talents on YouTube - in fact, on this cold December weekend, we looked for, and found some pretty funny short films from amateur film makers.

With the vast array of media at our disposal (our public library carries a massive variety of dvds/videos for loan, even), we are rich in sources of entertainment and information.  Between radio, magazines, and all of the audio/visual sources listed above.

Given that there are only so many hours in a day to squeeze in other interests, our children have even learned to make independent quality/quantity judgments on their own, for what is worth the time and effort to watch/do.  Sometimes they feel like watching something that is "pure fluff", other times something "about a [school identifiable] subject" will pique their interest.  Other days, they'll be too busy visiting with friends, making lasagna, going to the library, meeting their dad for lunch.  Sometimes they want to spend 4 hours watching stuff, other days, none.

It's hard to pin down what "all unschoolers" do or how they conduct their lives.  There is no "package lifestyle" that can accurately define a "type" regardless of how or where their children are educated.
 
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winterwarmth
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December 4, 2006, 4:00 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: purplepenny

I see. I understand that for the most part.

My thinking is, I have made a baby and brought them to my home...so in essence, this is my baby's home. So this home needs to be baby friendly. If something of mine breaks, it's because I wasn't watching her well enough, or because I wasn't smart enough to keep it out of her reach.

I see no point myself in yelling a child who does something like this wrong...because they aren't being malicious.
That's how we view our lives with our children.  The children see our house as their house too (it is!), and over the years they've taken enough pride in their home to participate in its function.

Any time I've been too hard on my children for things they've done, I've stepped back and examined my own behaviour in the scenario, often with regret.  My actions were often reactionary, without careful consideration and thought.  Cutting my children a lot of slack was my biggest growing up experience in parenting.  They're children!
 
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December 4, 2006, 6:30 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: julie1418

Oh, Sally, you already knew that!!!

 

I also like a fair debate. It's fine to get heated, but to make such a derogatory comment about your intelligence based on your inability to be a walking/talking encyclopedia is absurd. Anyone, on either side of the debate, who needs to resort to such low blows is really just demonstrating that they don't have any better ammunition to back up their point of view. That's just my humble opinion.

LOL, Sally?

 

Anyone, on either side of the debate, who needs to resort to such low blows is really just demonstrating that they don't have any better ammunition to back up their point of view.

 

I certainly do agree with your opinion.

I realize that there will be some members of this board who will post very absurd blanket statements. I also realize the majority of those members rarely enter into the actual discussion. But, I feel the need to address the absurd comments because there will be many others reading the posts and I want the reader to get a better understanding. Although it is, at times, tiring.  ;)
 
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mammato4boys
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December 4, 2006, 6:34 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: bamps65

I cannot thank you enough for having the school debate. It is a subject very close to my heart. I have five grandchildren. Two have been raised by parents who consider education very important. My other three grandchildren have not been so fortunate. They are 15, 13, and 10. The parents have moved more than 30 times since they have married. They do not have a steady income. The two oldest began going to a church school. The 10 year did not go to school until this year! We have tried to help in monetary ways by sending money for food shelter and clothing. After all this time, my daughterinlaw did decide to enroll the two oldest in public school. They were considered learning disabled and the parents receive a Social Security check for each child. They were promptly taken out of public school and were presently being "home schooled" until the family had enough and reported them to Child Protection Services. At that time everyone was living in a truck! My feeling is we waited too long. All three children were put in Guardian homes and the court hearings having being going on since July 2006. These children need so much theraputic foster care-the guardians cannot handle this and their own families at the same time. So this week it will be decided by a judge as to whether they go back to their parents or are placed in foster homes. In any event, what rights as a grandmother do I have to oversee the education of these children. Without some kind of checks and balances, I believe they don't stand a chance for a positive future. What do you think? 

What do you think? 

 

I believe  this is an example of poor parenting.

I am very sorry your family is experiencing this and hope all turns out well in the end. Our of curiosity, have you considered petitioning for custody of the children?
 
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winterwarmth
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December 4, 2006, 6:53 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: bamps65

I cannot thank you enough for having the school debate. It is a subject very close to my heart. I have five grandchildren. Two have been raised by parents who consider education very important. My other three grandchildren have not been so fortunate. They are 15, 13, and 10. The parents have moved more than 30 times since they have married. They do not have a steady income. The two oldest began going to a church school. The 10 year did not go to school until this year! We have tried to help in monetary ways by sending money for food shelter and clothing. After all this time, my daughterinlaw did decide to enroll the two oldest in public school. They were considered learning disabled and the parents receive a Social Security check for each child. They were promptly taken out of public school and were presently being "home schooled" until the family had enough and reported them to Child Protection Services. At that time everyone was living in a truck! My feeling is we waited too long. All three children were put in Guardian homes and the court hearings having being going on since July 2006. These children need so much theraputic foster care-the guardians cannot handle this and their own families at the same time. So this week it will be decided by a judge as to whether they go back to their parents or are placed in foster homes. In any event, what rights as a grandmother do I have to oversee the education of these children. Without some kind of checks and balances, I believe they don't stand a chance for a positive future. What do you think? 
I am so sorry to hear of your grandchildren's situation!  I pray that some stability can come to your children.  Sounds like their whole childhood has been very shaky, and that can interfere with their education.  I hope that they are put in a stable, permanent environment, with people they can depend on. Once that has been established (and that is extremely important), there can be significant repair in how they learn. 

You'll be in my thoughts for a positive, healing outcome for all involved.  I am so sorry to hear of your family's dilemma.
 
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jettav
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December 4, 2006, 7:28 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: momofbrw

We are not unschoolers but I did want to make a point in regards to HOW we learn...  My DD just turned 2.  She is amazing.  I do not school her in any way, shape or form except she's around when I school her brother and her Daddy often reads a nightime story.  (That is the extent of us teaching to her.)  She can answer questions that many adults couldn't.  She knows almost as many spanish words as she does english words.  She can tell you the roots of many words and even recite spelling rules... just from hearing me teach her 2nd grade brother.  I am very very strongly against pushing a child to learn ANYTHING too early. When I first started to notice her learning so fast, I was freaked out but it is teaching me a lot about learning styles and abilities.  It has some to do with parenting, it has some to do with teachings but some children are cabable of learning where neither is present (parenting or teachings).

Actually, I am one of those parents who do teach her childrena t a very young age. As soon as they show an interest in something, I go for it. My oldest was coloring at the age of 11 months. I was babysitting at the time and I would sit her at the table with the other children as they were coloring and doing crafts. Iw ould give her books/whatever and she was content. One day, as she was sitting ont he floor, she found a crayon and a little piece of paper on the floor and begain coloring so  I sat down with her and colored with her. She also got a hold of a closed (thankfully) bottle of glue and was trying to put glue on a  craft stick, so yes, i helped her with that, only I put a tiny bit of glue in a small container, gave her a q-tip and showed her how to put glue on the stick  and we glued another stick on top of it. To this day, she loves doing this stuff. She was laying on her tummy and coloring in a coloring book at the age of 18 months, I didn't push her to do it, she learned it and I encouraged it.

My youngest, didn't get into this stuff until later but she is now interested in "homework" as she sees her sister doing things, she can now print her first and last name at age 3 because she is in learning mode. I love teaching my girls new things and when they are ready,  I am ready. I do believe kids learn in differnet ways and methods and they should always be encouraged to learn. I do not believe in pushing kids, especially at very early ages, but at the same time, I take advantage of every opportunity that I have to teach and guide them.
 
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December 4, 2006, 8:22 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: mammato4boys

LOL, Sally?

 

Anyone, on either side of the debate, who needs to resort to such low blows is really just demonstrating that they don't have any better ammunition to back up their point of view.

 

I certainly do agree with your opinion.

I realize that there will be some members of this board who will post very absurd blanket statements. I also realize the majority of those members rarely enter into the actual discussion. But, I feel the need to address the absurd comments because there will be many others reading the posts and I want the reader to get a better understanding. Although it is, at times, tiring.  ;)

I thought you were mimicking Sally Field's Oscar acceptance - You like me! You really like me!! Perhaps I am showing my age! smile

 

I hear you on the absurd blanket statements - had to deflect a few myself! I can disagree with you on some points without making it personal. I can't think of anyone with whom I agree 100% of the time on EVERY issue. It's a debate, not a war! LOL!
 
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