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Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

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Created on : Friday, November 17, 2006, 12:57:50 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Parents want the best for their children, but what’s the best way to educate them? Dr. Phil’s guests face off in a debate about whether to school, homeschool or unschool. Dana and her husband, Joe, call themselves radical unschoolers. They say education happens as a side effect of life, and they don’t believe in tests, curriculums or grades. Are their three kids learning what they need to know? Then, RaeAnn says public schools are death traps and wants to homeschool her children. Her husband, Steve, says their kids are safer at school than they are at home. Can this couple reach a compromise? Plus, Nicole feels like an outcast at 26. She says she hated being homeschooled, and couldn’t relate to other kids. Share your thoughts here.

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December 8, 2006, 12:20 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

I really just want to say again that I am glad for this board. I do not agree with all that the home schooling side has said. But the more I have been thinking about it the more I just cannot stand the idea of Emma (my daughter) spending 6-8 hours in a classroom and then having 2-3 hours of homework a night. I feel I am capable of giving her more. This isn't a personal bash on anyone sending their kids to public school. I don't think it's the most horrid thing in the world at all.

For me and for Emma and for Frank (my husband) this is the best course for us. If only because it means we can continue in what we already do for Emma. I have been watching her closely since this discussion started. She is very much like her mom and dad. Her little brain never stops working. Never stops trying to figure. Just this week she is now starting to color specific objects in in her coloring book. Not within the lines, but it's very clear that she is understanding what she is doing and what she is seeing. She is even using the correct color for items most of the time. Orange for a fish or a basket ball. Red for a fire hydrant. Green for a tree.

I am too excited about this to pass it on to others. I am so glad that I have been there to guide and witness these things. Today she lined up 6-7 blocks and pretended it was a piano...little things that seem magic to me! LOL

I think that for me, for my family keeping her at home and teaching in in the world is best. At least for the first few years.

Anyway...again, I wanted to thank this board for this great discussion.

Like I said, I see and agree with some of all sides...and I think it comes down to what is best for each family.
 
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December 8, 2006, 3:29 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: kschmittz

"My son can have an intelligent conversation with another 7 year old or with a 47 year old.  He assimilates into any age group very well and is able to socialize comfortably.  I feel strange about having him ushered around with a bunch of 7 year olds for 7 hours a day.  How can he stretch his mind beyond Mario Brothers and SpongeBob?  "

 

I will respond to this.  I have to admit it is a very confusing post and I didn't really understand your point.  However, if your son is socializing comfortably with 7 year olds wouldn't he have to spend time with them?  My 8 yo son has these same qualities and he attends PS- how can that be?  Maybe it isn't something specific to a schooling choice rather than a life choice.  We are also a Christian family and my son has had many oppurtuntities to witness in a public school setting (go to my post "A Christian PS Experience).  Is this not a valuable part of one's journey?  To be honest, I have met/seen people and their children who homeschool...I wasn't impressed.  Wild kids, or  kids who just had a blank stare on their face while you try to have a conversation with them.  This isn't the type of child I want.  Mine have manners, they write thank you notes and they respect me and my dinner table.   Maybe it's me but I think too many confuse school with home and that's where the problem begins.  Values and morals are learned at home....math and writing are learned at school. 

 

Also, I think one who has your education is qualified to teach.  I also think with endless money to participate in the things you mention would be nice for most, too.  I don't believe those things are all free (at least not in my neck of the woods) so to have that kind of financial freedom is a luxury most can only dream of.  I realize that some things may not be very expensive but sports, music lessons and  martial arts are three I know that cost $$ no matter where you live.  My hubby and I both work and can't afford all these things for our two kids with both incomes let alone the cost for homeschooling curriculum.  So, public school it is.  yes, we live in a great area that has great schools so it's easy for me to make that choice.  However, from the sound of it you don't live in the ghetto either. 

 

 

However, if your son is socializing comfortably with 7 year olds wouldn't he have to spend time with them?  My 8 yo son has these same qualities and he attends PS- how can that be?  Maybe it isn't something specific to a schooling choice rather than a life choice. 

 

I think you missed her point. She is pointing out that, generally speaking, homeschooled children are able to relate to people regardless of their age. This is largely due to the fact they socialize with people of different ages vs only socializing with their same age peers.

 

To be honest, I have met/seen people and their children who homeschool...I wasn't impressed.  Wild kids, or  kids who just had a blank stare on their face while you try to have a conversation with them. 

 

Hmmm, my children display neither of these qualities. Yet we are a homeschooling family and have been four years. How could that be?

 

Values and morals are learned at home....math and writing are learned at school. 

 

Not necessarily. My 8yo son has never attended school but he does know math and writing. How do you explain this?

 

Also, I think one who has your education is qualified to teach.

 

There have been numerous studies which prove the education level of the teacher does not reflect upon the education level of the student.

 

I think, as many of us have at some point, you are placing too much emphasis on teaching and too little emphasis on learning. For a child to learn they are not required to sit in a certain room with a certain person. Do you feel as though you have learned anything past your school education? How on earth did you learn it unless you had a qualified teacher and a school room?

 
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December 8, 2006, 5:13 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: jcwithus

I am a mother of 3 sons.  My oldest is in 2nd grade - so this would be our third year of homeschooling.  When I read all the "debate" I wonder if it is really necessary.  Isn't it, after all, just a matter of imposing one's opinions or beliefs onto others?  I believe homeschooing is GREAT!  I have a B.A. degree in English...I feel completely capable of teaching my kids.  I don't worry about math...I know math too.  If I learned it in school (and I attended public school) then why can't I teach it to them.  Homeschooling isn't for everyone - for one reason or another.  So don't do it.  But why badger those of us who do.  Do I feel like EVERYONE that is homeschooling is doing the best for their kids?  No.  Do I feel all the kids in public school should be there?  No.  This is a GREAT DEBATE?  It seems so trivial in light of all the other things that are taking place in the world.  Why do I homeschool?  Because we are a Christian family and I believe that I should teach my curriculum from that standpoint.  It's a free country right?  Do my children socialize?  As silly as that question is...I will tackle it.  Yes they do.  Sports, martial arts, homeschool playgroups, bookclubs, music lessons, co-ops, and on an on.  Guess what?  My son can have an intelligent conversation with another 7 year old or with a 47 year old.  He assimilates into any age group very well and is able to socialize comfortably.  I feel strange about having him ushered around with a bunch of 7 year olds for 7 hours a day.  How can he stretch his mind beyond Mario Brothers and SpongeBob?  It's my opinion.  It's not a debate.  Do we leave our home?  You bet we do.  I don't isolate the kids.  I understand where the anxiety of it all may be coming from ... but honestly folks ...  if you don't agree with us homeschoolers ... come out and meet us... meet our kids.  Sit and stay awhile.  You might learn something.
You sound like you are doing very well...

You are right, homeschooling and unschooling may not work for everyone.  I am pretty much the only unschooler in my social circle, and when our children all get together, a person can't really "tell" who was in school and who wasn't... they just play together, talk together, eat together.

I think anyone with an enthusiasm for passing on knowledge to other children or other people is capable to do so.  It's perfectly legal :) 

I have yet to see someone in North America be arrested and jailed for "teaching without a license" when they point out Lithuania on a map to their children, or let them watch a documentary on the 65th anniversary of Pearl Harbour, or telling them how to spell "thoroughly".

Information is free to all - that's the premise on which libraries and museums were founded.

Public education is a wonderful and essential service and I am glad it exists.  It's not going to go obsolete just because some people want to homeschool or have an unschooling lifestyle, anymore than Private Schools would be a threat to public schools.  They're always going to be needed, much like libraries.

I'm extremely grateful and thankful every day, for the blessing of freedom.  Not everyone has it, and it's not to be taken lightly.
 
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December 8, 2006, 7:09 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: kschmittz

"My son can have an intelligent conversation with another 7 year old or with a 47 year old.  He assimilates into any age group very well and is able to socialize comfortably.  I feel strange about having him ushered around with a bunch of 7 year olds for 7 hours a day.  How can he stretch his mind beyond Mario Brothers and SpongeBob?  "

 

I will respond to this.  I have to admit it is a very confusing post and I didn't really understand your point.  However, if your son is socializing comfortably with 7 year olds wouldn't he have to spend time with them?  My 8 yo son has these same qualities and he attends PS- how can that be?  Maybe it isn't something specific to a schooling choice rather than a life choice.  We are also a Christian family and my son has had many oppurtuntities to witness in a public school setting (go to my post "A Christian PS Experience).  Is this not a valuable part of one's journey?  To be honest, I have met/seen people and their children who homeschool...I wasn't impressed.  Wild kids, or  kids who just had a blank stare on their face while you try to have a conversation with them.  This isn't the type of child I want.  Mine have manners, they write thank you notes and they respect me and my dinner table.   Maybe it's me but I think too many confuse school with home and that's where the problem begins.  Values and morals are learned at home....math and writing are learned at school. 

 

Also, I think one who has your education is qualified to teach.  I also think with endless money to participate in the things you mention would be nice for most, too.  I don't believe those things are all free (at least not in my neck of the woods) so to have that kind of financial freedom is a luxury most can only dream of.  I realize that some things may not be very expensive but sports, music lessons and  martial arts are three I know that cost $$ no matter where you live.  My hubby and I both work and can't afford all these things for our two kids with both incomes let alone the cost for homeschooling curriculum.  So, public school it is.  yes, we live in a great area that has great schools so it's easy for me to make that choice.  However, from the sound of it you don't live in the ghetto either. 

 

 

Wild kids, or  kids who just had a blank stare on their face while you try to have a conversation with them. 

 

Not the homeschooled kids I know.  All kids on occasion get silly and giddy and loud, mine included, but that doesn't make them 'wild.'

 

I've gotten more blank stares from the public schooled kids in my neighborhood who can't seem to grasp why an adult would want to engage them in conversation about stuff instead of correcting them or telling them the rules.  A lot of them can't look me in the eye, and seem uncomfortable with adult conversations.

 

I also think with endless money to participate in the things you mention would be nice for most, too. 

 

Endless money isn't necessary.  I personally made choices to be debt free, to downsize my life, so that what money I do have can go for enriching experiences for my kids, not house payments, car payments, and credit card payments.  I have a newer car (so we can tow the camper) but it was used, and I paid cash for most of it, financed the rest, and have made double payments on it to pay it off quickly.  Camper was paid for with cash (older, used).  My furniture was picked up at second-hand stores and yard sales (and all of it is solid wood, dovetailed drawers, etc, and was cheaper than the particle-board stuff at Wal-Mart).  We eat in, but aren't above eating out on occasion.  We do lots of free things, so we can take that trip to California when we want to.  There is money left for riding lessons and expensive sports camps.  It's all in your priorities.  I had the nice house with the resulting debt, and found it didn't do anything for me but cause stress.  So I eliminated it. :)

 

My hubby and I both work and can't afford all these things for our two kids with both incomes let alone the cost for homeschooling curriculum. 

 

Making it work requires a shift in priorities.  Downsizing to live on one income.  It's doable.  I know many families who do, and the dad isn't raking in the dough, either.  People of modest incomes (ie $40K or less).  It can be done.

 

 

 
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December 8, 2006, 7:57 am PST

May I ask?

Quote From: purplepenny

Kira, I was wondering if you saw this post of mine.  I took time out to respond to your question and I was just wondering if you had seen it.

And as you can see, I had something nice to say in here. It would be only polite of you to acknowledge it please.

Thank you Kira :o)
Why you are an atheist? Was it something that has evolved over your life or was there an event that changed your prospective on religion? I have been reading the message boards a lot lately, and I have noticed a lot of yours. I find you to be a thoughtful and intelligent person. And I was just curious.
 
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December 8, 2006, 8:35 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: purplepenny

I really just want to say again that I am glad for this board. I do not agree with all that the home schooling side has said. But the more I have been thinking about it the more I just cannot stand the idea of Emma (my daughter) spending 6-8 hours in a classroom and then having 2-3 hours of homework a night. I feel I am capable of giving her more. This isn't a personal bash on anyone sending their kids to public school. I don't think it's the most horrid thing in the world at all.

For me and for Emma and for Frank (my husband) this is the best course for us. If only because it means we can continue in what we already do for Emma. I have been watching her closely since this discussion started. She is very much like her mom and dad. Her little brain never stops working. Never stops trying to figure. Just this week she is now starting to color specific objects in in her coloring book. Not within the lines, but it's very clear that she is understanding what she is doing and what she is seeing. She is even using the correct color for items most of the time. Orange for a fish or a basket ball. Red for a fire hydrant. Green for a tree.

I am too excited about this to pass it on to others. I am so glad that I have been there to guide and witness these things. Today she lined up 6-7 blocks and pretended it was a piano...little things that seem magic to me! LOL

I think that for me, for my family keeping her at home and teaching in in the world is best. At least for the first few years.

Anyway...again, I wanted to thank this board for this great discussion.

Like I said, I see and agree with some of all sides...and I think it comes down to what is best for each family.
The discussion on this particular topic has slowed down quite a bit, and it's nice to read the posts on here and continue on this journey of learning.

Penny, you sound like you have put an awful lot of thought into it, and I applaud your well reasoned approach in your decision.

You sound like a very dedicated parent (your daughter is a cutie), who gets the same thrill of getting to see the steps in the journey of learning.  Kids are so curious.  Yesterday we rode home on the same bus as my husband (met him after work to go home together as we were already in town much of the day), and our 5 year old was curious about all the bus ads. Every word 2-5 letters (or longer) long held her interest and fascination.  She loves to learn letters and numbers right now and is not content to let a day go by without learning something.

For our 8 year old, I am thankful that I gave myself the responsibility to enable her love for reading and numbers.  We did that "informally", and via stories and books she loves (that in and of itself was incentive to read - she wanted to read the books rather than always waiting for me to have time/energy to read to her - although she likes parent/child reading time, too).

I also totally agree with your last sentence... it sums it up so nicely.
 
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December 8, 2006, 8:39 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: purplepenny

Yes...YOU are lucky that way. I am not. I am an atheist in an area that is 80% the same religion. And they all choose to homeschool for reasons I am not going to. Like evolution, sex ed and other such things.


I realize that the show did research and got statistics but how many real people did they talk to?   The statistics are just numbers representing a past gathering of information.  Often stats are skewed and bias.  That is the point I wanted to make after considering my own ranting about the show.

 

Is your area 80% Christians or 80% atheist or what?  I can only guess that it would be more difficult for you to find groups.  For us, we don't care what the religion is because most of the religions in our area are similar enough to our own.  That is an advantage, I agree.

 
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December 8, 2006, 11:11 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: cissie88

Why you are an atheist? Was it something that has evolved over your life or was there an event that changed your prospective on religion? I have been reading the message boards a lot lately, and I have noticed a lot of yours. I find you to be a thoughtful and intelligent person. And I was just curious.
Probably for the same reason many people are whatever religion they are. They find it's the best mode of thought for themselves in their lives.

And thank you for the compliment, that is very nice of you.
 
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December 8, 2006, 11:13 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: purplepenny

I really just want to say again that I am glad for this board. I do not agree with all that the home schooling side has said. But the more I have been thinking about it the more I just cannot stand the idea of Emma (my daughter) spending 6-8 hours in a classroom and then having 2-3 hours of homework a night. I feel I am capable of giving her more. This isn't a personal bash on anyone sending their kids to public school. I don't think it's the most horrid thing in the world at all.

For me and for Emma and for Frank (my husband) this is the best course for us. If only because it means we can continue in what we already do for Emma. I have been watching her closely since this discussion started. She is very much like her mom and dad. Her little brain never stops working. Never stops trying to figure. Just this week she is now starting to color specific objects in in her coloring book. Not within the lines, but it's very clear that she is understanding what she is doing and what she is seeing. She is even using the correct color for items most of the time. Orange for a fish or a basket ball. Red for a fire hydrant. Green for a tree.

I am too excited about this to pass it on to others. I am so glad that I have been there to guide and witness these things. Today she lined up 6-7 blocks and pretended it was a piano...little things that seem magic to me! LOL

I think that for me, for my family keeping her at home and teaching in in the world is best. At least for the first few years.

Anyway...again, I wanted to thank this board for this great discussion.

Like I said, I see and agree with some of all sides...and I think it comes down to what is best for each family.

<<<...little things that seem magic to me! LOL>>>  That is nothing compared to what you will experience together if you home school.  Every day brings a new challange for your child, or you, or both.  Learning together is fun but seeing your child "get it" for the first time is really amazing.  It never ends either.  I remember realizing that my son could read for the first time, I thought that it was the biggy - nope, there's so much more to come.  I realized that when I got the same proud feeling when he learned to use a ruler, a measuring cup and count change.  I now know that this is never-ending.  It's also pretty cool when you learn something you never knew too!  You don't forget the stuff like you did when you learned it in school.  I have learned that a lot of what happened during my school years was a lot of memorizing.  I try to help my son learn in a more hands-on fashion and avoid memorizing a lot .  Some learning has to be memorized but some learning comes from doing, from experiencing.  There is not enough time in public school for that, even though it happens in school, there is just much more time at homeschool.

 

 
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December 8, 2006, 11:14 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: momofbrw

I realize that the show did research and got statistics but how many real people did they talk to?   The statistics are just numbers representing a past gathering of information.  Often stats are skewed and bias.  That is the point I wanted to make after considering my own ranting about the show.

 

Is your area 80% Christians or 80% atheist or what?  I can only guess that it would be more difficult for you to find groups.  For us, we don't care what the religion is because most of the religions in our area are similar enough to our own.  That is an advantage, I agree.

My area is 80% Christian.  Being an atheist (for fear of sounding like I'm playing a pity card) is not easy sometimes.
 
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