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Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

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Created on : Friday, November 17, 2006, 12:57:50 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Parents want the best for their children, but what’s the best way to educate them? Dr. Phil’s guests face off in a debate about whether to school, homeschool or unschool. Dana and her husband, Joe, call themselves radical unschoolers. They say education happens as a side effect of life, and they don’t believe in tests, curriculums or grades. Are their three kids learning what they need to know? Then, RaeAnn says public schools are death traps and wants to homeschool her children. Her husband, Steve, says their kids are safer at school than they are at home. Can this couple reach a compromise? Plus, Nicole feels like an outcast at 26. She says she hated being homeschooled, and couldn’t relate to other kids. Share your thoughts here.

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November 21, 2006, 4:26 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: fredastare

I agree that the government is not a magical power.  I did not imply that in my posts........I am simply stating that there needs to be an accountability for all students.  Regardless if they are home schooled, unschooled or publicly schooled.

 

I don't want the government's nose in my business any more than it already is.

Ha Ha!  I agree, although in living in a democracy it really is the governments business to have it's *nose* involved with all aspects of the nations undertakings.

 

My bottom line remains as such, I feel that EVERY educator should be held accountable in that the very best interests of the child are being met.

 

Fredi

 

 

FYI - we don't live in a Democracy, we live in a Republic. 

James Madison’s Federalist Paper #10 discusses the issue of Democracies. In it he states: “Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives, as they have been violent in their deaths. Theoretic politicians, who have patronized this species of Government, have erroneously supposed, that by reducing mankind to a perfect equality in their political rights, they would, at the same time, be perfectly equalized and assimilated in their possessions, their opinions and their passions.” We can see from this that Mr. Madison would never have advocated a pure Democracy for his new nation.

 
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November 21, 2006, 4:26 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: jowens

I have homeschooled my children for the past 3 years with much success. My son was in a public school in Oregon up until 3rd grade. He came home from school with a hand print on his face from an older child that slapped him just because he could. This child had been suspended 5 times already that year and in my opinion had no business in school other than an alternative school. However due to special financing from the state on this child, he remained in school where he was in my opinion allowed to injure my 3rd grader at the time. So Julie in answer to your question about having bullying 101 I disagree. Yes they are taught and permitted in public school that bullying is acceptable. When I confronted the school they did absolutely nothing. That nothing which in fact is the same action that causes school shooting such as at Columbine. My children are too precious for me to hand off to some stranger to have them educate them, while their peers educate them all about drugs, bullying, sex, and worldly things. While the school educates them on the issue that we were monkeys and that God does not exist. Our country was founded on God, our constitution was written on the laws of God and yet, now he is not permitted in school. Why would any mother trying to raise her children in a Godly way, want to put them in a public school system where every effort that is made is undone by the school. This school system that is now apart of our society is currupt, allowing gay teachers, bullying, fighting, swearing, drugs, gossip, and pushing evolution on my so young and impressionable children. Public school may be fine if your standards are at that level, but I want more for my children, I want to teach them love, compassion, life skills, how to contribute to our society to make a difference, how to walk in the world to please our Lord. I'm sorry, but education is not all Math, English, Spelling, Science, History. It is first and foremost teaching them to live a life pleasing to God, to work as a family, all the book work is just extra, important as it is, it does not shape who my children will become. That is something that a school whether public, or even private can do for my children. I had my children to raise them, to teach them, to love them, not to hand them over to a liberal school system to turn them into what our system feels they should be.

Are you kidding me?  You think the school systems are corrupt because there are gay teachers???

 

And this country was not founded on Christianity, hate to tell you, but if you did any research you would know that and would want your children to learn the facts as well, which I'm sure they will discover some time in their life.  You won't teach your children about evolution?  Or will you? 

 

I hope your children are learning all they can.

 
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November 21, 2006, 4:27 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: sneakers145

Teachers have biases.

 

Parents have biases.

 

TV has biases.

 

PBS has biases.

 

What I'm saying is that an episode of Sponge Bob did spark a discussion on labor unions.  Lots of entertainment has tidbits of info there for the kids to want to learn more about.  Earlier in this discussion people were asking how a kid would know to ask what a radius and ulna are.  Well, TV has an endless supply of topics.

 

And yes, the whole world is educational.    What's wrong with humor?  Social commentary?  Ethical dilemmas? Etc?  Everything is educational.  Not just 'educational TV, games, or textbooks.'

This is like saying it's ok to eat a bucket of icecream because of the calcium it has in it.
 
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November 21, 2006, 4:28 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: purplepenny

Her choices won't be limited by a lack of respect by me. 

My respect of lack of respect won't cause anyone to lose their rights.

You in this post make that clear as you say "lest you find your rights to your choices limited someday because people chose to regulate or eliminate your choices"

I am not regulating or eliminating her choices...I just have NO respect for them.

You explain the difference in your own post, but ignore it when it comes to me.

Respect me, by respecting my right to disrespect her choice.
Forgive my typo's...I reworked a sentence and didn't proof read.
 
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November 21, 2006, 4:32 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: sneakers145

if you had neighbors who claimed to be homeschooling, yet you KNEW all they were doing was watching TV all day,

 

But this is a slippery slope here, because on occasion *I* watch TV all day, and so do my kids.  But it all depends.  We have unlimited TV (right now it's rarely turned on).  We have unlimited computer time.  Right now my kids are on Neopets a lot.  Yes, they're having fun, but there's a boatload of learning going on there as well.  Primarily reading, writing, math, and geography, time zones, etc.  But we travel, work, have play dates, go camping, museums, and all that good stuff, too.  But some weeks, if some nosy neighbor were spying on us, they'd claim we watched tv all day and there was no learning going on.  But TV is very educational.  Sets, writing, lighting, props, characters, actors, Hollywood, and that's before we even get to the music from the shows, bands, cultural references, etc.  Then add in the history channel, discovery.  We learned about labor unions one day on Sponge Bob Squarepants...

 

I disagree with regulation of homeschoolers for the main reason is once they start, they won't stop, and before we know it they'll be dictating curriculums and having us teach to the test.  No thank you.

And some (like me) NEED background noise to work.  I also get very freaked out by a silent house. So, you may not like that you hear the TV on 24/7, but I'm not actually watching it that whole time. :)
 
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November 21, 2006, 4:32 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: purplepenny

This is like saying it's ok to eat a bucket of icecream because of the calcium it has in it.

Well yes, it is.  :)  And the problem with this is....?

 

Oh, and it tastes good, too.

 

Why does anything educational have to be boring, work, or drudgery?  I find cartoons insanely educational as only cartoons can be.  Should I be banishing them in favor of dry documentaries?

 

In my life and my children's lives, everything is educational.  Even eating that bucket of ice cream, with its resulting brain freeze headache and stomach ache.

 
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November 21, 2006, 4:35 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: sneakers145

It would depend on the kid and the reason.

 

Sure, if TV was the most exciting thing happening around our house for weeks on end, then yes, that would be an issue.  But sometimes life throws serious curveballs -- death of a grandparent, life threatening illness in a sibling are two biggies we've had in previous years.  Someone mentioned a broken crush.  Sometimes it's just the weeks before a huge developmental leap.  But if all is well with the child, we're offering plenty of alternatives, well yes, I do trust that for whatever reason my kid needs to veg in front of the TV for whatever time period he or she needs, it's a valid reason.

 

I don't watch much TV, either, but sometimes in the winter months I get Seasonal  Affective Disorder and am more likely to want to curl up under a blanket and veg.  Nothing wrong with it.

 

Bottom line for unschooling is:  Trusting the kids, and the Freedom to choose.

 

Example:  One kid was in and out of the hospital at a young age.  All he wanted to do was watch Toy Story followed by Toy Story 2, over and over, day after day, for weeks on end.  Thank Goodness I liked the movies!  I'd have been tearing my hair out if he preferred Barney's Sing-Along!  But the point is, that he found the movies comforting and familiar, and yes, I allowed him to watch them.  And if the tapes wore out I would have bought him new ones.  I trusted him to know what he needed (familiarity) and freely allowed him to watch.

Do you kids question why you or your spouse/coparent do not get go veg in front of the TV non stop if something is bothering you?
 

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November 21, 2006, 4:36 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

I think it's a mytht that homeschooled children are goign to be socially inept. My sister has homeschooled all of her children. they all have many friends, they take Ballet, Karate, horse riding, scouts, and more. The oldest who is 16 is going to college! I think it is up to the parents to make sure they get socialized. At school they have peers yes. But those peers can get your child into things they don't need to be involved in: smoking,drinking,gangs. Also kids bully other kids at school who they dont like. Add to that the school violence and I think kids are better off at home,

 

In addition, schools nowadays are giving kids WAY tro many holidays and time off. I mean they have Christmas and Thanksgiving which is fine. But then they have: Presidence day, labor day,memorial day, MLK day, plus school inservices and half days on Wedensdays. Add to that snow days and you pretty much should teach the kids yourself. I have known relatives children who go the public school and they are not learning things the way they should.

 

Also, now teachers are having to teach "To the test" and therefore are not able to let kids learn at their own speed and be able to slow down to let them catch up.

 

I think everyone has to make the  choice that is right for them. But I hear more and more parents are homeschooling for various reasons.

 

My sisters kids do schoolwork every morning and then they do other activities. I think we under-estimate how much kids learn jsut from being kids! Sure we have to teach them some things, but you would be amazed at what kids can learn on their own. Even simple things like baking teaches math and so much more.

 
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November 21, 2006, 4:36 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: purplepenny

Her choices won't be limited by a lack of respect by me. 

My respect of lack of respect won't cause anyone to lose their rights.

You in this post make that clear as you say "lest you find your rights to your choices limited someday because people chose to regulate or eliminate your choices"

I am not regulating or eliminating her choices...I just have NO respect for them.

You explain the difference in your own post, but ignore it when it comes to me.

Respect me, by respecting my right to disrespect her choice.

Yes, but people who disagree with others' choices and don't respect their right to make them frequently do band together to lobby their legislators to do just that.

 

You personally? No.  But groups of people can and do seek to restrict the rights of others.  Namely those who feel all homeschooling should be highly regulated, tested, and require certification for parents.  And yes, they are out there.

 

We do have rights in this country, do we not?  Do you want your right to choose what you believe taken away from you?

 
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November 21, 2006, 4:37 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: fredastare

Its the parents responsibility to do what is best for their children....

 

I couldn't agree more with that statement.  Unfortunately there are many parents that are not responsible in doing what is best for their children.

 

I'm sorry if my view that there must be some sort of umbrella of protection for children is upsetting for you.  The only answer that I can come up with is in government monitoring and yes holding it's citizens accountable for their actions.

 

Again I am NOT against homeschooling at all.  I feel that every poster here is making the very best decisions in how they choose to educate their children.  My only concern is the parent that is not able to properly educate their children.

 

How do we keep that child from falling through the cracks without a specified regulations? 

 

Fredi

 

 


FWIW - - I am a licensed foster  care provider for the state (and a homeschooler).  My  Family Resource social worker says that in the 20+ years she has been working for DSS, she has never heard of a homeschooling family being investigated for abuse/neglect.  She supports my decision to homeschool fully, and says most of the parents she knows who've been involved with the system are too involved with whatever dysfunction exists in their lives to bother homeschooling - most look forward to dropping the kids off at daycare or school so they can do their own thing.
 
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