Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

Laws may differ from state to state, but from what I understand, the problem arises when there is the perception that prayer is organized, endorsed, or facilitated by school personnel. Nobody is going to stop a child, or a group of children from saying a prayer....it happens all the time. However, teachers (or anybody else, for that matter) cannot ask the other students to participate, listen, or even remain quiet for the sake of a prayer. If a small group of children are required to remain seated together at lunch, then a vocal prayer has the potential to hold those children captive to religious indoctrination.

The line is easily blurred. I taught at a school with a good number of religious students and teachers. The "pray around the flag pole" thing is supposed to allowed if it is student led and organized during non-school hours. It was a joke. There were a few teachers who not only were the organizers, they got on the intercom every day for a week reminding everyone to pray. The flag pole was located in the center of the parking lot. When I arrived at school for work and declined to join the prayer group, I was stared down by many. I was also questioned by several parents and students as to WHY I would not join them. It wasn't pretty. If I, as an adult, was borderline bullied for non-participation, imagine how children feel in this situation.

I know your kids are still pretty young, but hopefully during the course of their public school education they will learn about the Constitution. They will understand where the phrase "separation of Church and State" comes from and why the Founding Fathers set up our government in such a way that a bully majority was limited in their ability to impose non-secular beliefs on the masses.

why the Founding Fathers set up our government in such a way that a bully majority was limited in their ability to impose non-secular beliefs on the masses.

Julie - this is OT but I'm hoping you can explain this to me - or maybe gtrudeau can since he is such a history buff.  As you said, the Founder's intentionally created our Constitutional Republic because they were fully aware of what a majority rules democracy would entail. Why does everyone (including teachers and the President)  refer to the US as a democracy? I realize we have a democratic election process and some democratic traditions, but it seems to me there is a huge difference between the two and I don't know why the terms are used interchangeably.

I may not be the best at explaining this, so I am going to give you a very simplified version. We are a democratic republic...everyone has a vote (democracy), but in Presidential elections our votes go to a representative to cast an electoral vote (republic). Most of the Founding Fathers were VERY educated and well-read men who studies the classics and philosophers. Our government is a hodgepodge of the different ideals of government from the Greek and Roman philosophers and governments (among other things).

There is more to it than that, but it is more complex than I can put in a post. We have tenets of both democracy and a republic in our government. I have taken a break from my Founding Fathers readings to re-read the Harry Potter books in preparation for the final book. Gotta have your priorities straight ;)

I believe teacher led prayer should never happen in public school. It is public and must maintain religious neutrality.  But, children should be allowed to say a prayer  before their meal. (Or any other ritual they may prefer.)

I thought they had this right. Aren't the individual children allowed to say a prayer before their lunch?