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Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

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Created on : Friday, November 17, 2006, 12:57:50 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Parents want the best for their children, but what’s the best way to educate them? Dr. Phil’s guests face off in a debate about whether to school, homeschool or unschool. Dana and her husband, Joe, call themselves radical unschoolers. They say education happens as a side effect of life, and they don’t believe in tests, curriculums or grades. Are their three kids learning what they need to know? Then, RaeAnn says public schools are death traps and wants to homeschool her children. Her husband, Steve, says their kids are safer at school than they are at home. Can this couple reach a compromise? Plus, Nicole feels like an outcast at 26. She says she hated being homeschooled, and couldn’t relate to other kids. Share your thoughts here.

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November 21, 2006, 9:07 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: elffie

That's weird.  Kind of like when schools won't celebrate Halloween and doesn't allow kids to dress up.  What's wrong with dressing up?  Or having a Samhain party, not a Harvest Festival.  You're right, another board, another time.  Maybe I'll see you later.
Wow...that's an excellent point Elffie...It's ok to get rid of Halloween, but we should keep Christmas around?
 
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November 21, 2006, 9:24 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: amberlyn1

How very tolerant of you.

I may have been brutally honest in my statements, yet therein lies my concern.

 

I have NO DOUBT that most parents love their children dearly and preciously......and want only the absolute best for them in life.

 

I do feel that there should be measures in place to protect the children of our nations (so that no one child falls through any cracks) is all.

 

 

 

Fredi

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
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November 21, 2006, 9:40 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: julie1418

I don't. I taught an amazing girl who had been homeschooled and had to attend public school because of her parents divorce. She was obviously dealing with some emotional stuff at home and was unfamiliar with the structure of school. You NEVER would have known.

 

My assumption is more along the lines that parents who are homeschooling for the wrong reasons and are wholly unprepared for the demands will most likely put their kids back in school. They will not be seen as a homeschool failure, but as a public school failure.


What are the wrong reasons to homeschool?
 
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November 21, 2006, 10:01 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: julie1418

 I will agree that homeschooling is not for everyone, it is only for people who truly care about the education their child recieves.

 

So parents who don't home school don't care about the education of their children. Wow!

 

As a former school administrator who has watched countless children revolve in and out of homeschooling, I can tell you that your evidence is purely anecdotal and completely biased. I am sure you know many successful homeschooling families, but that doesn't mean there aren't many unsuccessful homeschooling families. You don't know them because they are not joining your network and keeping active in all the work and commitment it takes to educate a child.

 

I am glad your state has some sort of regulation. My state pretty much lets any parents simply say they are homeschooling, fill out a withdrawal form, and that's that. many parents pull their kids out of public schools because they are tired of the school informing them that children are not behaving or participating in their learning. Then they get them home and realize that their kids will misbehave, not cooperate, and refuse to learn at home too! HUGE surprise!

 

I have a Masters in education, and I have no plans to home school my two children. I take great offense at you insinuating that I don't truly care about my children's education.

Well, now, who is being "defensive"?  I don't think that the poster was saying that parents who don't homeschool, don't care about their children's education.  She was saying that to homeschool, you must care about your children's education.  This was likely in response to something you said (or another poster- I forget who it was, now!), where you commented on how there were all sorts of parents that didn't care to come into the school to see how their children were doing, and that they blamed you (or teachers and schools in general) for their failings as parents.  I think the poster's point was that those parents- that don't take responsibilty for their children's educations while their children are in a school- are not likely going to do any better, if their children are homeschooled.   In other words, in general, homeschoolers do what they do, because they value and love their children, and they value and love their children's education.  It does NOT mean that a person who sends their children to school, are then unloving or uncaring.  I think that you are misreading or over-reacting to her words. 
 
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November 21, 2006, 10:28 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: fredastare

Here's my take on the entire homeschooling debate.

 

Why on earth in many many states simply by being an egg or sperm donor qualifies one as a teacher?

 

Shouldn't there be nation wide criteria for such and undertaking??? 

 

I'm NOT against homeschooling, yet I do shudder at the fact, that many who are NOT educated themselves are so freely given this option.

 

I think that anyone, ( parent, guardian etc) that chooses to become a home school educator SHOULD be tested, and or / take a teachers college final examination and go from there.

 

I understand that people have many issues with teachers, hey they are with our children more oft than we are. 90% of teachers are doing a bang up job......the 10% (likely less) are who end up in the media.  Ratings people.........gotta sell everything! 

 

Regardless, those teachers are qualified and EDUCATED people that have an extensive education in teaching.

 

It's just nuts too me that some grade 10 drop out can home school just because they wanna, because they gave birth or delivered the squiggly wiggly to the egg???

 

If I were an educator, I would want to shake a few people by the shoulders and say " hey so you failed out of school miserably, yet you feel you can explain Algebra, Physics, English and grammar..........mathematics........all the sciences.........

 

Well that's just insane to me!

 

Of course I fully understand that there may be many many competent parents that would be a benefit to homeschooling their child.

 

Yet without regulations and country wide standards I find the idea as a whole quite frightening.  Really that is really blowing my mind.  It's like this...........

 

have a baby, and decide that even though I'm a drop out that can't spell, nor multiply I can homeschool!!!  REALLY there should be some standards put in place.

 

And although I am not in the teaching profession...........I say without certain standards and criteria in place it is an absolute SLAP IN THE FACE to the teaching profession.

 

 

Fredi

 

 

"Why on earth in many many states simply by being an egg or sperm donor qualifies one as a teacher?"

 

Why on earth wouldn't it?  Didn't that situation allow the parent the right to be a parent, and choose how to raise that child?  Why would education be any different?  Medical and religious choices are OK, but not educational ones?  Also, I am NOT a "teacher"; I am a parent, who is educating them.  I am educating them, or managing their education.  However, I am not at all trying to be a teacher, in a school.  That is different, and requires skills that are different than parenting your own child.  Education- home education- of your own child is simply doing what you have already been doing, but with a different twist; it is simply parenting, where (depending on your philosophy) you add certain other ingredients into the mix.  Unschoolers have a bit of a difference in what "education" or "parenting" is, maybe, than what many homeschoolers do, but we all believe that we can do the same thing with education, as we have for everything else, as parents.  I think that is what many of you are not quite grasping.  Home education is not something that starts at 5 or 6.  It's a continuation of the parenting that has already been taking place, since that child was born, but it is given an official name, and it takes on some different ingredients.  Instead of just numbers, letters, colors, fairy tales, etc., you are now teaching/helping them to learn fractions, art history, to read for themselves, etc.  It is not something magical and hard- not if you were already an active parent in their lives, or if you already value or enjoy learning.  And- as at least one other poster said here- if we can't teach something, or can't help them to figure something out, then of course we do something about it.  We hire a tutor, or find a different program, or another book, or try to look at it a different way.  We are not neccesarily doing all the teaching or coaching ourselves, for our children.  We simply feel that we can manage it better, as we are their parents (and were doing just fine at managing their lives, before they hit a certain age), and we know them better than anyone else, and know what their abilities and desires are. 

 
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November 21, 2006, 10:30 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: wekkea

Well, now, who is being "defensive"?  I don't think that the poster was saying that parents who don't homeschool, don't care about their children's education.  She was saying that to homeschool, you must care about your children's education.  This was likely in response to something you said (or another poster- I forget who it was, now!), where you commented on how there were all sorts of parents that didn't care to come into the school to see how their children were doing, and that they blamed you (or teachers and schools in general) for their failings as parents.  I think the poster's point was that those parents- that don't take responsibilty for their children's educations while their children are in a school- are not likely going to do any better, if their children are homeschooled.   In other words, in general, homeschoolers do what they do, because they value and love their children, and they value and love their children's education.  It does NOT mean that a person who sends their children to school, are then unloving or uncaring.  I think that you are misreading or over-reacting to her words. 
This post was 3 days ago. 
 
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November 21, 2006, 10:43 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: purplepenny

This post was 3 days ago. 
OK... well, I am not spending all day, every day, on this board, so I guess I might not realize that.  It seems that, regardless of the date of that exact post that I responded to, me pointing out someone's misunderstanding is something that is wrong.  He/she might still be upset about it. 
 
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November 21, 2006, 10:52 pm PST

Clearing Up Some Homeschooling Misconceptions

There are so many misconceptions about homeschooling that people are talking about on this board.  I would like to take the time to discuss some of them.

 

The first misconception I will address is that homeschoolers spend too much time with their family and not enough time with their peers.  The amount of time that a child needs to spend with their peers varies from child to child.  Most homeschooled children are involved in many activities with their peers.  They may also be involved in activities with children who are older and younger than they are.  There are many advantages to being around children of different ages, but I won't go into that.  My children are currently taking a gymnastics class with 10 other children, a science class with 30 other children, and an art class together.  Twice a month we meet with other families at a Firestation where the children engage in fun educational activities.  We also go bowling once/month with homeschoolers, and meet often with families in our neighborhood.  We are currently looking at a creative dramatics class that involves many homeschoolers.  I make sure my children are with their friends and peers as much as they need to be with them.  One of my children doesn't have a desire to be with peers as often as their sibling.  We have friends pick up my child who wants to be with friends often, while my other child stays home with me.  My children have a very strong bond with me and their dad.  The family unit is very important.  We are able to spend a lot of time together learning, playing, reading, talking, relaxing, and the like. 

 

The second misconception I'm going to address is the idea that homeschoolers are not responsible or they are lazy.  I'm not sure where that idea came from, but all of the homeschoolers I know are not lazy or not responsible.  My children have chores and responsibilites.  They have classes to attend.  Things to complete.  For their ages, I think my children are very responsible.

 

The third misconception I'm going to address is that homeschoolers choose to homeschool because schools are dangerous, or something similar to that.  Homeschoolers have differences in the reasons why they choose to homeschool.  There are many reasons for homeschooling, and parents have their own reasons.  My main reason to homeschool is my philosophy on how children learn best.  There is no one way that children learn best.  I believe children are individuals and they cannot be put in a mold.  It is ridiculous to think that all children need to learn the same way and master a skill at the same time.  It sets many children up for failure.  I also believe that children should have a proactive role in their education.  This is where unschooling, not the radical kind, can come into play.  They should help with decisions regarding their education.  When parents talk to their children about their interests, how they would like to learn something, and give them choices on what is possible for their learning, children will always seek answers to their probing questions.  They will not become passive in learning.  This doesn't mean that a child is left to fend for themselves.  This means the parents work with the child and make sure the child has what they need to follow through with their interest, project, assignment, etc.  For instance, my children became interested in the Statue of Liberty.  We went to the library and found some books on the subject.  I went online and found a coloring page and a quiz, and related activities.  We did math activities by comparing the size of parts of the statue to our own bodies.  We learned about the sculptor, France, and a little about the American Revolution and Colonial Times.  Before we were through with the study on the statue, our studies covered all of the curriculums/subjects...math, science (materials and structure of the statue), art (sculptor, medium), geography (France, New York),history and social studies (Colonial Times, American Revolution, donation of statue, etc.), English (lots of reading and writing).  I'm always amazed at what my children learn and seek out to learn on their own.  Many adults think that children must be forced to learn, but this is not so.  Children have a strong desire to know how to do things and to understand the world around them.  Parents can be guides and learning tools for their children.  They can find the answers to questions like 'Why is the sky blue?', and 'How can a big airplane fly?' if their child asks and they don't know the answer.  They can introduce their children to new and amazing things.  They can make learning fun and challenging.  I love coming up with creative ideas for learning.  I'm always searching for new ideas and ways to make learning interesting.  That's what makes homeschooling great in my opinion.  Seeing my children get excited about learning.

 

The last misconception is about unschooling.  I've already mentioned a little bit about it.  The word 'unschooling' takes on different meanings to different people.  Most people who unschool use whatever materials is necessary for their children to gain the skills they need.  Child-led learning, for most unschoolers, doesn't mean a parent does their thing and a child does their own thing.  It doesn't mean there is little or no interaction between them in regards to learning new skills and academics.  Most unschoolers use their children's interests and abilities to guide their children in learning.  The parent is very active in the child's life.  The parent finds needed materials, makes suggestions, gives the child ideas, finds answers to questions, encourages a child, and helps them in many ways.  They also use everyday activities for learning important skills.  This makes learning more meaningful.  For instance, cooking is an important skill.  A child can read the instructions and follow a recipe.  They can learn and practice their measurement skills, and double a recipe and practice adding fractions.  Young children can learn to count money by saving money to buy something, going to the grocery store and counting money to buy a toy, playing store at home, and other fun activities.  Child-led doesn't exclude traditional school materials.

 

There are many other misconceptions, but I'll stop at these.

 

Homeschooling is a wonderful option.  People should open their minds and not believe everything they hear and see on TV.

 

 
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November 21, 2006, 11:27 pm PST

What Measures in Place?

Quote From: fredastare

I may have been brutally honest in my statements, yet therein lies my concern.

 

I have NO DOUBT that most parents love their children dearly and preciously......and want only the absolute best for them in life.

 

I do feel that there should be measures in place to protect the children of our nations (so that no one child falls through any cracks) is all.

 

 

 

Fredi

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure what measures in place that you would have to protect our children of our nations.  The schools cannot even do that.  Exactly what measures? 

 

When our society begins to infringe on parents rights to raise their children, the family unit will become less and less important.  We already see this happening.  When parents lose their say, what will our society be like?  I hate to even think about it.

 

Parents should not be regulated to parent their children.  All parents, not just homeschoolers, should be offended.  What society is saying is that ALL parents cannot be trusted to raise their children the way they should be raised, so we must watch them and intervene in their lives.  Who decides how we should raise our children?  It's probably good that I'm not the one who decides.  I stress eating natural, healthy foods, exercising everyday, limiting junk food, very little tv watching, breastfeeding, and many other things that many parents do not do.  If I decide, along with a large group of governmental people, that the above way of raising children is what ALL parents must follow, will this be what is best for ALL families?  I think so because this is how I raise my children.  For parents who don't raise their children this way because they have a difference of opinion, this is not best for their families.  We should be able to choose how to parent our children.

 

This is the same for homeschooling.  It isn't up to society, or the government, to decide if a person should be allowed to homeschool.  It also isn't up to anyone to demand testing or proof that a parent is parenting their child well.  Who decides what is well?  How do they measure?  What happens if the officials decide a parent isn't educating their children well according to their measurements? 

 

I feel our society needs to trust parents to raise their children.  This will make the family unit stronger. 

 

Pa

 
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November 21, 2006, 11:39 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: wekkea

OK... well, I am not spending all day, every day, on this board, so I guess I might not realize that.  It seems that, regardless of the date of that exact post that I responded to, me pointing out someone's misunderstanding is something that is wrong.  He/she might still be upset about it. 
"Well, now, who is being "defensive"?"

That was your opening comment. The conversation has evolved since then.
 
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