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Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

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Created on : Friday, November 17, 2006, 12:57:50 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Parents want the best for their children, but what’s the best way to educate them? Dr. Phil’s guests face off in a debate about whether to school, homeschool or unschool. Dana and her husband, Joe, call themselves radical unschoolers. They say education happens as a side effect of life, and they don’t believe in tests, curriculums or grades. Are their three kids learning what they need to know? Then, RaeAnn says public schools are death traps and wants to homeschool her children. Her husband, Steve, says their kids are safer at school than they are at home. Can this couple reach a compromise? Plus, Nicole feels like an outcast at 26. She says she hated being homeschooled, and couldn’t relate to other kids. Share your thoughts here.

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November 22, 2006, 12:11 pm PST

Testing

Quote From: fredastare

Exactly!

 

I find the sometimes lax and vastly differing state by state regulations in both homeschooling and unschooling may produce a potentially dangerous society.

 

Education is paramount in a fully functioning society.  I AM not stating that any of these options be denied to it's citizens.  No.

 

I am urging that all educators be held accountable in their efforts and that all students be closely monitored through the governments.

 

That's it - that's all; accountability and adhering to a specific set of regulated standards that are monitored are very important for me.

 

I would think that any really wonderful homeschooling parents would welcome this sort of criteria.  As it would lay to rest the idea that their motives aren't simply justified due to laziness, fear, over-protectiveness..... etc.

 

Many many parents should and do homeschool amazingly well.  Sadly many others do not. 

 

Therefore having more stringent and a more watchful government eye on both the teachers and the students would only serve to benefit this cause IMO.  Thereby creating a better educated child regardless of the method of education chosen.

 

 

Fredi

 

 

I'm a homeschooling parent that would definitely have a problem with that! I have two autistic spectrum children diagnosed with PDD-NOS, and my son is dyslexic and dysgraphic (writing disability). He had problems with testing and in school when he attended. When he could not read in Kindergarten, I was asked to teach him which I did (his teacher knew I had a Masters' degree in Elementary Education, plus coursework in Special Ed). She passed him on, but knowing his needs said he would have continued problems. His 1st grade teacher asked me to tutor him in math and handwriting. Then his IEP panel asked me to "preteach his language arts concepts". I also found out by reading the IEP report that he had been crying daily and complaining of daily stomach aches at school, which he did not do at home. We felt at that point that homeschooling was probably the only viable solution.

 

OK, this is a child that wouldn't have done well at testing in public school, probably still wouldn't have been reading very well, so how does testing him, which probably would not show him at age level, do any good? I don't want to get into problems with the government over homeschooling, when I have always been the successful one teaching him.  Also, when you're homeschooling, you know exactly, what level a child is on, you don't need to standardized test. I know exactly when he is struggling or not; I don't need a test to tell me like I would if I was teaching 30 or more children. Anyway, no I definitely would not welcome this kind of testing. Hopefully if my son did not do well, because of his diagnosis' we would be able to go through the courts and work it all out, but what a ridiculous waste of time and money, both ours and the governments!!!! Many other homeschool parents also homeschool special needs children, so I am not the only other parent that would also be in this situation as well; this would be very common.

 
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November 22, 2006, 12:14 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: our4sons

"Why is it that so many homeschooling parents love to flaunt the test scores of their kids, but then grow equally horrified at the thought of being told to take the test? "

 

I also find it ironic how some homeschoolers will flaunt their educations they received in an institutionalized setting & then preach of the benefits of denying one to a child.

 

Just a thought I had & am full aware that "some" does not equal "all".

I also find it ironic how some homeschoolers will flaunt their educations they received in an institutionalized setting & then preach of the benefits of denying one to a child.

 

Because when I was a child I didn't have a choice.  And yes, I succeeded in spite of school, not because of it.  But not without a great personal loss of creativity, confidence, and self-esteem.  And after spending all those years in an institution, I choose not to institutionalize my children.  They're free to pursue their dreams outside of the constraints of the system.

 

 

 

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November 22, 2006, 12:19 pm PST

Honest question here... Why so defensive?

Seriously, I would like to know. Much of my experiences in discussing this topic with "homeschoolers" tends to go south. I truly want to know, are you all personally being attacked for this choice? Are your children truly being refused opportunities for it?

 

I personally do not believe its the wisest choice for the majority of families, to homeschool. That's my opinion & from it, my choice. I am fully aware that some think it's best for all to homeschool & that my choice is wrong just as some think it's one of the worst things to do (to homeschool). But that is nothing more than an opinion.

 

Is it truly offensive that others disagree with your stance?

 
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November 22, 2006, 12:20 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: our4sons

I admit I do not no all regulations for all counties in all states. You are correct in that. I am not willing to believe those that are in effect are as in-depth as that post suggest, though. But no, I am not assuming there are none. I am not assuming anything in that regard. I am suggesting those in place be upheld.
I can't speak for every state, but in our state they most certainly are upheld.

We are required to file a Letter of  Intent to homeschool every year, a progress report with work samples, a statement of fitness and competency to teach (background/education), and a list of curriculum/books/materials used throughout the year.  These must be submitted, in writing, to the Superintendent of Schools of the town in which you live.  If they are not, the school can (and does) contact DSS to file educational neglect or truancy charges against the parent.

Standardized testing is optional here, but it is not in many states.  Then again, the public school parents don't like MCAS either, so if a homeschooler elects to take something better, like the Iowa Test of Basic Skills, they would run rings around any MCAS scores this state has to brag about.
 
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November 22, 2006, 12:21 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Our4sons wrote:
"But with all of that, I know I could never educate my child as effectively as he has been by the schools here. He comes home tells of things I am at times clueless about."

Our 2 younger children, who have never attended school, often tell us as parents things we are at times clueless about.  Their minds are little traps.  They pick up on things.

I could never just up and educate a bunch of young acquaintances.  But the hours of one-on-one interaction between a parent and a child (whether a public school student are not) are not to be undervalued.  A teacher obviously does not have the time to spend as much one-on-one as a parent does.  Yes, they can introduce new concepts, and give them homework to reinforce or further explore new ideas, but a parent can also do it one-on-one.

Learning is broader than just what takes place in a classroom.  A classroom is one place that a person can learn a specific subject, or set of subjects, in certain ways.  Learning is broader than that, learning is, well, everything.  We limit ourselves when we only look for the learning that is contained in "subjects".  The "subjects" are IN almost everything!  That is why children are taught it in school!  To learn something at school and not be able to apply it in real and present life (You're 9 now, but trust me, you'll need this for university in 7 or 8 years") would be pointless.

My children learn new things, and seek to be intellectually challenged every day.  My 3rd grader the other day, while watching the end credits of an older movie, asked my husband, for instance to teach her to read Roman numerals.  This was something she had seen in a book one day and said, "that looks boring."  But wanting to know what year was printed on those end credits made her a thirsty sponge for wanting to know the year it was made.  She now knows Roman numerals and how to add and subtract Roman numerals like she understands our traditional numbers.  It fascinates her. 

Almost everything we do in our life, even as children, even outside of a school, whether for fun or work, requires an integrated knowledge of "subjects", even if they don't articulate them as such.

But I digress.  Teachers are wonderful learning resources indeed, but they are one of many valid and legitimate learning resources.


 
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November 22, 2006, 12:30 pm PST

Homeschooling over the web

There are virtual schools available for those who are uncomfortable sending their children to public school, can't afford private school, but don't have the patience or know how to home school. These virtual schools are public based schools that provide the curriculum, books, and one on one via email and no charge to the parents. The virtual schools still hold all of the responsibilities of educating your child and attendance and progress but all of the work is done at home and over the web.  A lot of them provide field trips, social gathers and of course the standard testing that all children must take. They provide a meeting place for the extra curricular activities and let the parent know where and when the child should show up for there testing. They also have special education programs that work with IEP's. If you do a web search you can find one that serves your area.
 
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November 22, 2006, 12:30 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: our4sons

There are always those who will & do not follow "the rules". That's just a fact. I do not seek futher regulations. My point is homeshool is not best for all or even best in many situations.

 

"It is no more valid to assume that most homeschoolers will not adequately prepare their children for the world than it is to assume most public school teachers will shoot up or have sex with their underage students."

I agree.

 


 

RE: not following rules - that is the case with anything.  But a homeschooler risks a lot more - the loss of their child(ren) - than a teacher would risk (the loss of a job).

Again, no homeschooler would ever suggest home education was best for the masses - simply that for those who choose it, it is a lot of research, money, time, effort and expense.  It would be nice to NOT have those in the general population view it with distaste based on isolated cases of media protrayal.


 
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November 22, 2006, 12:36 pm PST

Kind

Quote From: purplepenny

No offense to you or anyone...and I thank you for being so kind and extending your willingness to answer my questions. But I would rather not open up myself to ask questions here. Right off the bat people who asked simple questions were not responded to kindly.

I will just keep doing my own research...But thank you, really thank you for asking me.
Um, I've been kind...  =o)
 
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November 22, 2006, 12:40 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: kmart35

I'm a homeschooling parent that would definitely have a problem with that! I have two autistic spectrum children diagnosed with PDD-NOS, and my son is dyslexic and dysgraphic (writing disability). He had problems with testing and in school when he attended. When he could not read in Kindergarten, I was asked to teach him which I did (his teacher knew I had a Masters' degree in Elementary Education, plus coursework in Special Ed). She passed him on, but knowing his needs said he would have continued problems. His 1st grade teacher asked me to tutor him in math and handwriting. Then his IEP panel asked me to "preteach his language arts concepts". I also found out by reading the IEP report that he had been crying daily and complaining of daily stomach aches at school, which he did not do at home. We felt at that point that homeschooling was probably the only viable solution.

 

OK, this is a child that wouldn't have done well at testing in public school, probably still wouldn't have been reading very well, so how does testing him, which probably would not show him at age level, do any good? I don't want to get into problems with the government over homeschooling, when I have always been the successful one teaching him.  Also, when you're homeschooling, you know exactly, what level a child is on, you don't need to standardized test. I know exactly when he is struggling or not; I don't need a test to tell me like I would if I was teaching 30 or more children. Anyway, no I definitely would not welcome this kind of testing. Hopefully if my son did not do well, because of his diagnosis' we would be able to go through the courts and work it all out, but what a ridiculous waste of time and money, both ours and the governments!!!! Many other homeschool parents also homeschool special needs children, so I am not the only other parent that would also be in this situation as well; this would be very common.

I don't know in which state you live, but I would imagine if you have a diagnosis for a learning disability the same exceptions should apply to homeschool students as to public school students. The Federal Individual with Disabilities Act requires that your children be given adequate accommodations for assessments. You shouldn't have to hire a lawyer or incur any costs. Your school district and state dept. of education are required to have this information.
 
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November 22, 2006, 12:42 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: amberlyn1

I can't speak for every state, but in our state they most certainly are upheld.

We are required to file a Letter of  Intent to homeschool every year, a progress report with work samples, a statement of fitness and competency to teach (background/education), and a list of curriculum/books/materials used throughout the year.  These must be submitted, in writing, to the Superintendent of Schools of the town in which you live.  If they are not, the school can (and does) contact DSS to file educational neglect or truancy charges against the parent.

Standardized testing is optional here, but it is not in many states.  Then again, the public school parents don't like MCAS either, so if a homeschooler elects to take something better, like the Iowa Test of Basic Skills, they would run rings around any MCAS scores this state has to brag about.
Are you upset with current requirements or just fearful of the possibility of impending regulations? Just curious.
 
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