Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

I understand your concerns, and I agree it is VERY difficult to determine where to cross the line. However, we do it for many things, not always successfully, but usually with the right intentions. For example, we don't allow spanking, but we do regulate against people beating their kids senseless. We don't regulate nutrition, but we do consider malnourishment abuse. I would consider it "abuse of the brain" if kids did NOTHING except watch TV all day.

 

I agree TV can be educational, but I assume you are doing some sort of follow through with the topics, even if it is just discussion (hopefully sometimes more). I understand the concept of unschooling better, and I can see how it could work with very determined committed parents. I just cannot make pure television watching okay.

There is so much about Unschooling to learn if you are just discovering it.   Aside from all that was already said our number one reason for Unschooling is our children's emotional health and happiness.   Our culture wants us to put school agenda before our family's individual needs, but I will not put "Education" before my *Family*. An education is important to us, yes, but just one of many things that will shape who they are. Going to school to get an 'education' is NOT more important than my children's autonomy and the respect they deserve in life.   Many are so brainwashed in our culture to think that making our kids "smarter" should come before making them "happier".  We live a wonderfully happy life making that the priority, and our kids learn as a side effect of living our rich, full, exciting life together. Our kids are learning just as much as kids in schools, but in fun, interesting ways totally catered to their individual needs.   Schools give you the time you have with your kids. They give you your weekends and vacation time with YOUR kids and penalize you and the child in some way when you do not obey their wishes. They put you in an adversarial position with your children from the start because they make YOU be the enforcer of THEIR agenda, number one being homework.   We took back our family!!!   Having a child part of the school system is not *TRUE FREEDOM* in my opinion.   I am proud to say we are truly free and living the life of our dreams! Happiness is the key to sucess, not the other way around! Our children are learning so much everyday through Unschooling, and loving who they are.

I have a question...what if you notice one of your kids DOES begin to watch TV all day everyday for weeks on end?

 I used to be a fence sitter on the issue. That was when I was young. I thought that if it fit, then go for it. Then my first son died. Even though I thought for myself that life was too short, I still remained the fence sitter. Now I have decidely begun to lean to one side. That of total pro-home education. Why? Because I did not have my children in order to give them up to someone else to raise. And that is how I feel. I do not understand why people choose to believe that their children are better off being raised by a moral-ess society. With the exception of single parents who have no other choice in the matter, everyone else has a choice. Everyone can choose whether or not they feel their children deserve better than 2nd rate parents.

I have 3 degrees (one of which is in education), and I can tell you that PS is not perfect - neither is homeschooling. Each has it's own unique set of flaws. You will find equally, in both settings,  children who will excel and children who will fail. You will find equally children who love going to school and those who love staying at home. You will find children who seemingly do nothing all day IN SCHOOL and likewise, you will find the same scenarios AT HOME.

My children will experience a lifetime of learning. They do not have to learn to be OF THE WORLD right now. They can be afforded to be shielded against the enemies of the world for a little while. They will have a lifetime of learning these things. Do not make any mistake - they know OF these things and abuses and atrocities. They have experienced them - but I am there to talk with them about these things. They are not sheltered.

I have to laugh when people ask me about socialization. I then will ask them what is it about my kids that make you think they are unsocialized. They ALWAYS say not my children - but other children who are homeschooled because it's obvious that they get the soicalization they need. I am dumbfounded. I just don't see it.

I do see kids at school who are ill-socialized. I see kids at home who have the same troubles. Perhaps it's more personality, than it is environment?

I see a school system that could potentially do well for a nation's kids. Not by cramming more garbage down their throats that they are emotionally ready for. But by caring for these kids as a parent would. No they are not the parents - but yet they are. There is a very gray and fuzzy line where that is concerned. According to the law, they are en loco parentis -

I see children who learn at their own rates. SOme excel in math one year while they struggle with reading and perhaps the next year it's just the opposite. No one learns at an even rate - yet children are labeled as failures if they can't keep up. That's sad. What is the difference between a child who was forced to read before he/she was intellectually ready vs. one that was encouraged, but not forced to read until he/she was ready? I contend that when a child is ready to read, he or she will do so with hunger. You will not know which child read a the age of 5 vs. the one who read at the age of 9. You can't tell whent hey are 13. You also can't tell as adults which children were educated at home vs. those who went through the school system. I know I can't - because it doesn't matter.

The current PS system was funded and fueled by Rockerfellar and his colleagues so that they could have enough people to work in their factories that could read, write, follow directions, and get along well with others. I am teaching my boys to think for themselves - to be leaders. Not to learn from textbooks (a summary of someone's view), rather from actual works - comes straight from the horse's mouth!

So the debate should not be which system is better because both are flawed.

The debate should be what is right for you. Do you really feel like you would be a better parent with time away from your children? Do you really feel that they need someone else to teach them what you think you can't?

Or are you up for the challenge of taking their precious lives into your own hands?

Life is too short. I learned that the hard way. I will not turn my kids over to someone else to raise. I will not give them 70% of their time while I get the leftovers. I'm not going to waste one minute of my time with my kids on this earth. We all deserve better!

I understand your frustration with school bureaucracy - I've been there too. You need to look at the big picture. What CAUSED the bureaucracy? Some of it can be attributed to sheer idiocy, for sure, but most of it stems from schools trying to FIX a social problem. I'll give you some examples.

 

We start having a drug problem with kids. Where can we find kids to address the drug problem? SCHOOL. So, school districts are required to train every teacher on how to spot the signs of drug abuse and deal with drug abuse. We need laws and regulation to deal with drugs on campus. Hence- bureaucracy!

 

We have a huge influx of non-English speaking students. A parent sue a school for not providing accommodations to his non-English speaking child. To settle a lawsuit, schools are required to give teachers 120 hours of training for teaching non-English speakers AND hire compliance specialists to ensure that guidelines are being met. More bureaucracy.

 

As a result of children not succeeding in school, state and federal programs require that EVERY child is entitled to an Individual Education Plan. More bureaucracy to hire compliance specialists and document that all IEPs and 504 plans are being followed.

 

We also have guidelines and compliance mandates on child abuse, gangs, and a host of other social problems. Every time somebody comes up with a program, we end up with bureaucracy to make sure the programs are being followed.

 

So I stand by my reasoning that the school's job would be simpler if the parents were more engaged in their children's lives and education. Things like self-esteem, character education, drugs, gangs, school readiness should be mostly the parents' responsibility. Schools have become overly ambitious in trying to fix social problems because they know kids cannot learn until those problems are dealt with.

 

As far as discouraging children from reading - that is outrageous! I have never heard that from an educator, and if I did, I'd go ballistic. I have heard arguments against trying to force those skills too early. Some parents are a little overeager to have their children be shining prodigies. Research shows that by 5 or 6, most kids even out on the skills even if they got a jump start - not every kid, but the conclusion is that it's probably not the best plan to try to force your 3 year old to be gifted.

 

 

We're not really tv watchers, but anything that would be taken to an unhealthy extreme, one would have to question why, and what alternative can we offer?  While I personally don't watch a lot of tv, I can see people zoning out in front of it so they don't have to think about their real life for a while.

I know that one time, when was a young teen and had a crush on a boy who didn't reciprocate the sentiments, I was completely and utterly squashed emotionally.  For days, I did nothing all day but veg out in class, unresponsive and sometimes rude to teachers, eating chips and candy bars, and watching tv show after tv show.  After I got "over him", and moved on with my life, things balanced out.

But our job as parents is to intervene and deal with unhealthy situations that may come up. 

Julie1418 Wrote: 

"So I stand by my reasoning that the school's job would be simpler if the parents were more engaged in their children's lives and education. Things like self-esteem, character education, drugs, gangs, school readiness should be mostly the parents' responsibility. Schools have become overly ambitious in trying to fix social problems because they know kids cannot learn until those problems are dealt with." 

 

II could not agree more with this sentiment!  Schools are often expected to clean up someone else's sloppy parenting.  Children who are not brought up properly at home and who are not given all of the above, often wind up disinterested in learning, bad self esteem, leading to bullying or being a target for bullies. 

There are also situations, though, where there is not necessarily abuse, neglect, or "sloppy parenting", such as divorce (it may be "common", but it still hurts), death, special needs, or other situations which have affected a child in an adverse way.  I know for myself, I had to deal with one of the above when I was younger, and teachers, while they had sympathy, could only stay within certain boundaries.

I feel the job of being a public school teacher in today's day and age is a far more challenging one than when I went to school more than 30 years ago, and I thought it was tough then!  Kudos to teachers, and kudos to the parents who care about their child's education.

  As a teacher, I have seen students excel in public school, parochial school, private school, and home-school.  What makes it work (or not work) is the parent.  Children have emotional needs, health/nutritional needs as well as academic needs.  When the child's needs are met, the child can feel secure in his/her environment and thrive.  Parents, please, get involved in the life of your child.  No one can raise your child for you. Step up to the plate.

If I am wrong in saying this, after watching the show on Friday I will reply with a very large apology. After watching the trailer tidbits the shame in this show will be if  Dr. Phil has a close mind in discussing homeschoolers. I sure hope that he will show ALL sides to homeschooling by interviewing a family that homeschools the way we do (with structure and accountablity..not to any governing body but personal accountability to be schooling in the manner best for childrens growth). My comment was very generalized from last night about the bias most homeschooling families get by thinking we live in a closet. As I said, if I am wrong and Dr. Phil makes a well rounded show on this topic...I will be suprised.

 

To answer your question from previous replies on why most homeschoolers are replying somewhat defensive: We already get the looks and questions from our community when we take a field trip or the whole clan shows up to a doctors appointment. We have to deal with family members that dont understand what we are doing. (Which is from fear of the unknown.) It is fair to say I deal with my own insecurities at different times through the year as all parents do when raising children. I doubt myself at times and when you have to learn how to talk to others on WHAT you are doing with your children in regards to their education on a regular basis, you become defensive. Just as if a parent of a public schooled child would be questioned every time you drop your child off to school on the whys they attend the public school. They too would become defensive.

Then when a public icon creates a show with this topic and only discusses the most sensational opinion (as I am sure will happen) it creates a hostile feeling to us moms and dads who pour our hearts into educating the whole child. Of course there is more educating that goes on in most of our homes outside of the basic subjects. We spend equal time in character building and child training on this level. What good is it if a child has mastered school placing top in there class if they lack the skills to be a responsible, good hearted human (not saying in any way that children that are in public schools are not going to be in this category.) I spend every ounce of my day and life devoted to my children. To then have an unequal show like this aired... those of us in the homeschooling community will have to deal with more public scrutiny than we already deal with.

On the trailer Dr. Phil mentions if he would have had no deadlines with school work under the age of 7 (by looking at the children he was referring to) that he would have been a 'vegetable'. I would like to know how many children under 7 have sharp deadlines.

 

PurplePenny, you mention you may be interested in homeschooling your child. What you do every day right now (if your child is at home with you and not the age for a structured environment) is homeschooling. Granted there is more play involved for a child under 4 than book work. If you have specific questions that are not being answered for the defensiveness of these posts, please ask your questions and I will answer them with out defense.