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Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

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Created on : Friday, November 17, 2006, 12:57:50 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Parents want the best for their children, but what’s the best way to educate them? Dr. Phil’s guests face off in a debate about whether to school, homeschool or unschool. Dana and her husband, Joe, call themselves radical unschoolers. They say education happens as a side effect of life, and they don’t believe in tests, curriculums or grades. Are their three kids learning what they need to know? Then, RaeAnn says public schools are death traps and wants to homeschool her children. Her husband, Steve, says their kids are safer at school than they are at home. Can this couple reach a compromise? Plus, Nicole feels like an outcast at 26. She says she hated being homeschooled, and couldn’t relate to other kids. Share your thoughts here.

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November 22, 2006, 6:03 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: sneakers145

Maybe those who think of their jobs as slavery are wishing they had taken school a bit more seriously.

 

Possibly.  What I've seen a lot of are kids (like me when I was in HS) who are intelligent yet compliant.  We follow the rules.  We do what we're told.  Our days are filled with school.  Our nights are filled with homework.  Our lives are mapped out.  All we have to do is show up and do the work.  And in our precious free time, we relax.  We're worn out.  We veg to TV, or if you were me, books.  Lots of books.

 

Year after year the routine.  Why?  It was drilled into us:  go to school, get good grades, go to college, get a good job.  But, along the way we realize that we didn't have time to really pursue our passions, as our days were filled with stuff deemed important by others. 

 

I see this a lot in my kids' babysitters over the years.  Esp. the good students.  They're just like I was!  Ask them what they're going to study in college and they look at me like a deer in the headlights.  Uh, business.  I think.  Maybe nursing?

 

They've spent so much time doing what they've been told, that they have no clue who they are or what their passions are.  I know, because I was one of them.  My passions were belittled as not realistic.  Fortunately, after a few years of confusion and self-doubt, I got over it and followed my dreams.  But many don't get past that.

 

 

 

 

What did your parents have to say about your passions? I'm not attacking your parents, but if I had interests or passions outside of the school curriculum, my parents helped me nurture them.
 
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November 22, 2006, 6:05 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: purplepenny

Yes, but you can learn those things from home school.
not really!!!!!!
 
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November 22, 2006, 6:12 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: amberlyn1

Well, I wouldn't know.  I've never seen a home educated individual lacking in basic skills, but I wasn't offering conjecture.  This was a student I knew personally from the high school and Scouts, and knew to not have any learning disabilities.  I was also at a Target that lost power - the associates were unable to calculate the 5% tax rate without sharing the calculator, and even with the calculator many of them had difficulty.  I can't imagine all six employees at those registers were home schooled, that would be an amazing coincidence.

Homeschooling kids DO tend to come from families who are very dedicated to education. Did you read the statistics I posted on homeschooling families?

 

I simply find it disturbing that you chalk up these people's ignorance to the SCHOOL rather than their PARENTS. If I had not been able to make change or calculate 5% without a calculator at that age, my parents would have been embarrassed. I have to wonder how many teachers have pulled their hair out over those kids!

 
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November 22, 2006, 6:14 pm PST

love

Kids  may not learn what they need too.  If they are home schooled!!   The parents may not teach them what they really need to know.  Also it can put too much stress on a parent.   public schools are much better for a child!  I  think if a child is home schooled they will   end up being lazy in the future!!

 
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November 22, 2006, 6:14 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: sneakers145

Maybe those who think of their jobs as slavery are wishing they had taken school a bit more seriously.

 

Possibly.  What I've seen a lot of are kids (like me when I was in HS) who are intelligent yet compliant.  We follow the rules.  We do what we're told.  Our days are filled with school.  Our nights are filled with homework.  Our lives are mapped out.  All we have to do is show up and do the work.  And in our precious free time, we relax.  We're worn out.  We veg to TV, or if you were me, books.  Lots of books.

 

Year after year the routine.  Why?  It was drilled into us:  go to school, get good grades, go to college, get a good job.  But, along the way we realize that we didn't have time to really pursue our passions, as our days were filled with stuff deemed important by others. 

 

I see this a lot in my kids' babysitters over the years.  Esp. the good students.  They're just like I was!  Ask them what they're going to study in college and they look at me like a deer in the headlights.  Uh, business.  I think.  Maybe nursing?

 

They've spent so much time doing what they've been told, that they have no clue who they are or what their passions are.  I know, because I was one of them.  My passions were belittled as not realistic.  Fortunately, after a few years of confusion and self-doubt, I got over it and followed my dreams.  But many don't get past that.

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry your passions were belittled when you were  younger.

My passions were completely nurtured by my parents. My parents aren't perfect, but they very much wanted me and my two brothers to feel fulfilled in the things we were interested in.  Singing, sports, crafts, drawing, building, car maintenance, nutrition, exercise, science...these are all things me and my brothers were interested in and my parents nurtured it.

I'm sorry you didn't experience the same thing. I really am.
 
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November 22, 2006, 6:16 pm PST

Give the kids a chance!

This topic is a really tough one! My opinion on it changes as I get older to tell you the truth. I graduated from a public school, in a small, middle class town. And before I had Children, I thought it was a lovely little school for anyone to go to. Then I had children, a 2 1/2 year old and a 3 month old. My husband and I are both active duty military members, so our children are in a day care, but its wonderful, and at times when comparing my children to those of others, i would say it is intellectually beneficial. But thats a whole other bucket of worms i am really not trying to open. I find as my children grow, my oldest child in particular, my fears of sending him to school grow! I would never unschool my children, which i will say is very selfish and lazy of any parent! To rob a child of an education, which these days is more than an absolute necessity, should be against the law! I have on occasion though about private school, which would cost about as much as we pay for daycare, so we could absolutely do it, I have also thought about home school..but i am not one of the few very talented moms and dads that can successfully homeschool their children..so thats out of the question. Its just tough, i want my children to be safe, and learn,to be happy, and never get their feelings hurt! i want them to learn most life lessons from my husband and I, not some undisciplined punk that he meets at school! Thats not too much to ask is it ;0) Then i think about the pros and cons. The crime would be the same, but different. Less fights, more drugs possibly. Do private schools accept undisciplined children, who are on the rotten side...sure! Would my children be looked down on for not having doctor or lawyer parents who are moneybags, probably! So I have concluded that public school and private school are very similar in very different ways. damned if i do,damned if i dont i guess. But isnt that life? would be doing a huge disservice to my children by trying to shelter them from everything ( which i desperately want to do!)? What they get out of school is up to them in the long run, I can make them go, I can send them to the top notch schools, but i cant make them learn, i cant choose what they take interest in...hmmm, good thing i have a few more years huh! But anyways, i empathize with all parents, and i think it would be truthful to say, that no matter what way we are leaning as far as our childrens education is concerned, all of us moms and dads are just trying desperately to give our children the best! Kudos to us for that! And may everyone have a Happy holiday season! Please say a prayer for our troops who are overseas fighting,so we may enjoy this holiday safe at home with our families!
 
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November 22, 2006, 6:17 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: jesusislord

not really!!!!!!
Yes you can. I promise :o) My brother learned all about American History the year he was at home and he learned to love it. He also learned Home Ec. and wood working along with algebra and reading American Literature.  (Other topics too, just do not recall all of them)

My brother went back to school the following year and didn't skip a beat.

You must remember, there weren't always "schools"...

:o)
 
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November 22, 2006, 6:20 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: purplepenny

Julie I have seen this with my own eyes too.  One of the "all my kids need is the Bible" families was a family with lots of kids. This mom was very very obese. It was very clear she just didn't want to take her kids to school, have to buy them clothes, keep them clean and all of that. She didn't want to do much of anything. I felt sorry for her in a way. She seemed very depressed and her kids were very very sad. They didn't know much of anything and they were dirty all the time.

(For the record, as I said before, my own brother was home schooled for one year and my parents did a great job...and AGAIN, I am considering it MYSELF...so, to defect any wild responses to this.)
I have seen a mom like you describe too but I have also seen moms like this whos kids go to public school.  I was shocked to see how many teachers are homeschooling their kids.  I homeschool and am not fat and only have one at home now.  We do virtural school.
 
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November 22, 2006, 6:21 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: preraph

If your child is gifted, what makes you think YOU are qualified to educate him but an entire school system isn't?

I choose to treat this as a serious question and not the facetious retort which my gut is trying to tell me it was because there is a full inventory of serious answers.

 

The quickest way to answer is to remind the inquirer that public schools were originally and intentionally designed to utilize the principles of the industrial age to modernize education. Since natural intellect was/is/has been a genetic given, the modernization efforts focused on changing the educational environment. Schools began to look more like factory assembly lines as they became more centralized in administration and more stratified in age levels.  In short, they became optimized for round pegs.

 

Home education often makes sense for children at both ends of the intelligence spectrum. Both very gifted and learning disabled children are, in essence, square pegs. Both have difficulty fitting into the round holes of mainstream education and both benefit from the one-on-one tutoring of a home school environment.

 

In many ways, the "antique" one room school house of our ancestors was better able to deal with the square-peg kids; the bright ones could move ahead, and older student were often able to tutor the younger ones who had difficulty.  It should not be at all surprising that a highly motivated parent who is willing to learn what it will take to help their child succeed can frequently out-perform a public school that must conform to mountains of red tape, standard protocol, documentation, and time limitations. 

 

As I said, this was a quick answer. Once you throw the distractions of pop culture and peer pressure into a classroom, the benefits of home education for square-peg kids begin to increase.

 

I doubt home education will ever become the main method for educating these kids. Home schooling rates vary widely around the country. (In our community it is just under 7%.)  Within that group, only a handful of parents are home educating because they felt the school was not meeting their needs, however, in the small number of local cases where parents do choose home schooling because the school was not meeting the academic needs, they are getting better results than the "entire school system" you questioned.

 

'

 

(FYI - negative socialization issues on the playground, busses and during non-class time-- which are often beyond a teacher's control, are also common reasons for pulling out of schools around here, so it's not all about the education.)

 
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November 22, 2006, 6:24 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: jesusislord

not really!!!!!!
Here is an example from my life.

My daughter is 2 1/2. I have already taught her all her numbers and letters. She knows what sounds some of them make. I taught her all of that myself. I do not have a teaching degree. I don't need one to teach her these things. Same with a lot of subjects.


 
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