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Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

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Created on : Friday, November 17, 2006, 12:57:50 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Parents want the best for their children, but what’s the best way to educate them? Dr. Phil’s guests face off in a debate about whether to school, homeschool or unschool. Dana and her husband, Joe, call themselves radical unschoolers. They say education happens as a side effect of life, and they don’t believe in tests, curriculums or grades. Are their three kids learning what they need to know? Then, RaeAnn says public schools are death traps and wants to homeschool her children. Her husband, Steve, says their kids are safer at school than they are at home. Can this couple reach a compromise? Plus, Nicole feels like an outcast at 26. She says she hated being homeschooled, and couldn’t relate to other kids. Share your thoughts here.

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November 22, 2006, 7:21 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: fly1bby

YOu just made my point.

I believe the battle in the mind of the parent is responsible for a great deal of this 'home schooling' that goes on around the country.  What kind of hysteria made that Mother say, 'public schools are death traps'.  Your front yard is a death trap if you want to use the wrong words for everything.  The mark of the uneducated mind.

At best, there are co-op's. 

 I think home schooling occupies the Mommy's time who wonders what she will do when the kids are at school or perhaps doesn't have the initiative to work. 

She thinks she on to some Noble cause.  

Either that or she's  just too lazy to get up and get on with the routine.   We all know that's true.  The Dad, wanting to keep the peace, so he just goes along with it. 

 A prideful, ego trip carries the Mother on her journey  as she proves to the world how much smarter she and her children are going to be.  

I also see fear as a motive for home schooling.  Here in Missouri, the parents are shut out of the public school system.  Unless you completely understand the lingo, are willing to be aggressive with the teachers and above all, know that your little darling is indeed capable of doing just about anything, then the 'them against us' attitude prevails here.  It is a backward culture with strong fundamentalist preaching that's out of balance with life and reality.

 

The ideas about education here are old.  They do breed contempt.

If you take someone who did not necessarily do well in school, has low self-worth, add to that fear and you have a typical home-schooling parent.


Only 25% of the youngsters go on to get a college degree in Missouri; which, is 24th in the Nation and darn proud of it.  Home schoolers are everywhere.  Do they know as much or more as the qualified Instructors in the school?  Don't be ridiculous.

Timid, uneducated parents think they are superior by refusing to allow their children to socialize.

How else can they distinguish themselves?   It's part of the backward thinking that's prevelant.

 

Most children deeply resent staring at their Mother's all day for years on end.

Mother's are supposed to be Mother's.  Period.

We do not  have Ph.D's in Science and English and Math.  Nor are we all well traveled with a complete working knowledge of the events of the day.

The cloistered stifeling environment of home-schooling would have driven me nuts.

I would have hated it and whoever put me through it as a child.

What kind of an ego makes a Mother think she is all people and  life's experiences to her child?

I think the inablity to accept others is at the heart of home schooling. 

I loved my friends, my teachers and the learning experience.

IF there were horrible tramatic issues, as a child, as with all children, I was blissfully unaware of them.

We took our youngest son and moved to Texas while he was in Jr. High.  He did not just survive the Texas school system, he thrived, he went on to become a Scholar and is now a Dean's Scholar at OSU in Stillwater.

The other kids in our neighborhood are following typical Missouri schedules.  Deciding to join the military, then undeciding, deciding to go to college, then undeciding.

His entire class in Texas, mostly are involved in college

 His entire class in Missouri, not so good, struggling, failing.

 

 

 

 

What kind of hysteria made that Mother say, 'public schools are death traps'. 

 

The kind of hysteria surrounding the recent spate of school shootings, maybe?  Gangs in inner city schools?  Rampant drugs even in upper class and private schools?  Not the school's fault, sure, but where our social ills congregate with society's youth.

 

I think home schooling occupies the Mommy's time who wonders what she will do when the kids are at school or perhaps doesn't have the initiative to work. 

 

I'm a single mom, I work full time, and I home school (unschool actually).

 

She thinks she on to some Noble cause.  

 

The noble cause of raising her own children instead of relegating them to day care?  Another topic, sure, but SAHMs do play a huge role in their children's lives.  Quantity does matter in the under-5 set.

 

Either that or she's  just too lazy to get up and get on with the routine. 

 

Riiigggghhhhhhhttttttttttttt.

 

 A prideful, ego trip carries the Mother on her journey  as she proves to the world how much smarter she and her children are going to be.  

 

I don't test, measure, or assess my children's knowledge.  The only time I even remotely tell people what they're up to is if they're looking for some sort of proof that my kids are learning anything.  Relatives, mostly.  And on boards such as this, where some posters are demanding  proof that homeschooling works, are any test scores touted as success.

 

I personally don't care if my kids are geniuses or financial wizards.  I do care more for their emotional health, not trophies I can hold up to the world as proof of my greatness as a mother.

 

If you take someone who did not necessarily do well in school, has low self-worth, add to that fear and you have a typical home-schooling parent.

 

I don't doubt they are out there but they are not the norm.

 

Timid, uneducated parents think they are superior by refusing to allow their children to socialize.

 

Homeschooled students have a broader age-range of friends than your typical schooled student because they're out and about in the real world instead of age-segregated in schools.  They are often comfortable in groups of mixed ages.  My son, age 8, has a 13-yr-old best friend, and a 21-yr-old friend.

 

Most children deeply resent staring at their Mother's all day for years on end.

 

Not mine.

 

What kind of an ego makes a Mother think she is all people and  life's experiences to her child?

 

Wouldn't know.  I do know that my children have the time and freedom to explore things in greater depth than their schooled counterparts, primarily because of scheduling.  We can offer more from the simple standpoint is the kids aren't away from home for 6+ hours per day and not bogged down by homework for several more hours per day.

 

I think the inablity to accept others is at the heart of home schooling. 

 

Uh, no.  Not even close.

 

I loved my friends, my teachers and the learning experience.

IF there were horrible tramatic issues, as a child, as with all children, I was blissfully unaware of them.

 

Schools can be wonderful, safe havens for lots of kids from less-than-stellar home environments, for sure.  A caring teacher can work wonders for those kids.  I'm glad you had a great experience.  It's not so great for others.

 
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November 22, 2006, 7:22 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: jesusislord

Kids  may not learn what they need too.  If they are home schooled!!   The parents may not teach them what they really need to know.  Also it can put too much stress on a parent.   public schools are much better for a child!  I  think if a child is home schooled they will   end up being lazy in the future!!

This is a gross generalization.  Do you really think that every child that comes out of the public school has "learned what they need to?"  I have also seen a lot of  "lazy" people that have come out of the public school system.  I have come into the conversation late, and perhaps I am missing something here.  I hope this is not what you mean.
 
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November 22, 2006, 7:24 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: rs8180

This is sad but I have also seen moms at the public school come at lunch and bring her young children and take food off of her childs lunch.  They all shared it .  3 children and a mom eating a school lunch.  And this little girl is so smart!  but her parents don't care.

Unless you have walked in that mothers shoes I'm not sure I would say she doesn't care.  Who knows what circumstances have led to this.  This is very sad for sure.

 

 
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November 22, 2006, 7:33 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: fly1bby

YOu just made my point.

I believe the battle in the mind of the parent is responsible for a great deal of this 'home schooling' that goes on around the country.  What kind of hysteria made that Mother say, 'public schools are death traps'.  Your front yard is a death trap if you want to use the wrong words for everything.  The mark of the uneducated mind.

At best, there are co-op's. 

 I think home schooling occupies the Mommy's time who wonders what she will do when the kids are at school or perhaps doesn't have the initiative to work. 

She thinks she on to some Noble cause.  

Either that or she's  just too lazy to get up and get on with the routine.   We all know that's true.  The Dad, wanting to keep the peace, so he just goes along with it. 

 A prideful, ego trip carries the Mother on her journey  as she proves to the world how much smarter she and her children are going to be.  

I also see fear as a motive for home schooling.  Here in Missouri, the parents are shut out of the public school system.  Unless you completely understand the lingo, are willing to be aggressive with the teachers and above all, know that your little darling is indeed capable of doing just about anything, then the 'them against us' attitude prevails here.  It is a backward culture with strong fundamentalist preaching that's out of balance with life and reality.

 

The ideas about education here are old.  They do breed contempt.

If you take someone who did not necessarily do well in school, has low self-worth, add to that fear and you have a typical home-schooling parent.


Only 25% of the youngsters go on to get a college degree in Missouri; which, is 24th in the Nation and darn proud of it.  Home schoolers are everywhere.  Do they know as much or more as the qualified Instructors in the school?  Don't be ridiculous.

Timid, uneducated parents think they are superior by refusing to allow their children to socialize.

How else can they distinguish themselves?   It's part of the backward thinking that's prevelant.

 

Most children deeply resent staring at their Mother's all day for years on end.

Mother's are supposed to be Mother's.  Period.

We do not  have Ph.D's in Science and English and Math.  Nor are we all well traveled with a complete working knowledge of the events of the day.

The cloistered stifeling environment of home-schooling would have driven me nuts.

I would have hated it and whoever put me through it as a child.

What kind of an ego makes a Mother think she is all people and  life's experiences to her child?

I think the inablity to accept others is at the heart of home schooling. 

I loved my friends, my teachers and the learning experience.

IF there were horrible tramatic issues, as a child, as with all children, I was blissfully unaware of them.

We took our youngest son and moved to Texas while he was in Jr. High.  He did not just survive the Texas school system, he thrived, he went on to become a Scholar and is now a Dean's Scholar at OSU in Stillwater.

The other kids in our neighborhood are following typical Missouri schedules.  Deciding to join the military, then undeciding, deciding to go to college, then undeciding.

His entire class in Texas, mostly are involved in college

 His entire class in Missouri, not so good, struggling, failing.

 

 

 

 

I am speechless......

 

Unbelievable.....

 

This is such a sad posting - you would have actually hated your mother if she homeschooled you?  If she actually took the time, day in and day out to teach you herself.  If she felt so strongly that she would be doing the best possible thing for her child - which is what most of us want for our children - you would have hated her for that?

 

I realize there are alot of negative homeschooling experience, but I truly believe that the mother who dedicates herself  to EDUCATING  her child deserves a huge pat on the back.

 
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November 22, 2006, 7:34 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: rs8180

I have read that the government has found that children learn most at this age.  Perhaps it could be that you are homeschooling and don't know it?  China has the highest rate of suicide in young people because they send their kids off out of the home.  Look it up...Like 4rs old  Do you know our government is looking in to public day care? What is going on here?
Please, please tell me that you are NOT assuming that I am against home schooling?

Of COURSE that is home schooling..that was the point of my post.

If you didn't mean that, I'm sorry.
 
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November 22, 2006, 7:36 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: purplepenny

Here is an example from my life.

My daughter is 2 1/2. I have already taught her all her numbers and letters. She knows what sounds some of them make. I taught her all of that myself. I do not have a teaching degree. I don't need one to teach her these things. Same with a lot of subjects.


purplepenny,

You just illustrated a perfect example of natural learning.  Now, I'll hazard a guess that you did not take your 2 year old and have her memorize up to "G" by thursday so you can make sure she was paying attention by giving her a test (grin).  I'll go even further and guess that she demonstrated a curiosity about letters and you fostered that in her.  You've described the kind of atmosphere that permeates our own home environment, as well.

Your little girl sounds like a smart cookie (my own youngest demonstrated that at that age as well).

You're right, you have the ability to nuture in her the things she is going to need for her life-skills.  You don't need a "teaching degree" to do that.  You're not a public school teacher.  My own friends who are public school teachers (who also unschool!) say that their teaching degree has nothing to do with how well their child is doing.  That they've just done what they've done and considered their child, and not "teaching methods".

You sound like a very aware and receptive parent.  I am sure that whatever you do, and whatever you choose, your daughter is going to receive the best.

Your example illustrates as well, why most homeschoolers and/or unschoolers feel uncomfortable with sentiments expressed (which, to my recollection, I doubt you personally have indicated, but it has been said on this board), that a "teacher can do it better because they are professional."  You are an expert in the field of your child, whether  or not you end up choosing public, private, or homeschooling.

Kudos to you, purplepenny.

 
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November 22, 2006, 8:34 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: purplepenny

What if your childs passion is to draw stick figures?

Then let them draw stick figures. They will find a way to make money. Wonder if any homeless people in america were homeschooled.

 
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November 22, 2006, 8:58 pm PST

We just started this year...

We just started this year homeschooling two of our children--the younger two and both girls. Our son has always excelled in school and loves to play sports. We did not have any bad experiences with school and have been in both public and private.  I just wanted to give homeschooling a shot and things finally worked themselves out where I could try it.

 

It IS a lot harder than I thought it would be and I'm so glad I researched it and thought about it for a solid year before doing it. Otherwise, I believe it would have been even harder. As it is, I was prepared that I would probably need to make some adjustments and my expectations were not unrealistic.

 

It has been a very positive experience for our family. We are so much less stressed.  We have more time as a family to work on meaningful things and aren't so hurried going from one thing to the next after having been in a school setting for 8 hours and then having to come home and do more homework on top of that.  We belong to a wonderful homeschool group so there's a certain amount of accountability as well as opportunities for social gatherings and the usual extracurricular activities schools offer. It's like having the best of both worlds, really.

 

Every family is different and has to decide what's in their best interests and I'm glad parents still have that right. Yes, there are a few families who don't take their children's education seriously--whether they homeschool, public or private school.  Whatever method a parent chooses (and not making a choice is a choice, too), they have to stay involved.

 
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November 22, 2006, 9:00 pm PST

radical unschoolers

It's really not surprising that most people today don't understand how anyone can learn what they need to know without schooling. It's also not surprising (to me) that most people don't realize how dangerous and insidious a notion it is that all of us need to be institutionalized in order to be successful, to get along, or whatever. That's one of the lessons schooling teaches best - and more successfully than almost anything else! Fortunately, it's simply not true. People can and do learn what they need to know without schooling. There are many successful, sociable, joyful people who are unschooled. I am the mom of two unschooled teens . We have never done any formal schooling. I didn't sit them down and teach them to read, or to write, or to do basic math, yet they learned, because those things were part of our lives. I didn't prescribe history or science lessons, yet they delved into both with a passion, because they found them interesting. We have played games for hours on end, watched oodles of television and videos, spent much of our time with friends, gone places, done all kinds of things, and just generally created an interesting, fulfilling life for ourselves. Both of them have found ways to make money, and have found mentors in areas where they especially wanted to focus. Best of all, they have enjoyed being free human beings all of their lives. So, for all of you who believe that children should not be allowed to follow their own path, or that the adults in their lives are irresponsible or abusive for choosing to unschool, what would you say to my two happy, healthy, successful unschooled teens? Do you hold it against them that they have been able to do whatever they wanted, and yet turn out just fine?
 
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November 22, 2006, 9:28 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: julie1418

The quickest way to answer is to remind the inquirer that public schools were originally and intentionally designed to utilize the principles of the industrial age to modernize education.

 

I don't doubt that this is a significant factor in how schools have developed, but I am becoming a bit of early American history buff. Thomas Jefferson was one of the first to plan for public education, and he hated industrialization. He wanted public education to insure the preservation of democracy. He didn't want an elite educated class vs. the uneducated masses as he feared that would result in a Monarchy government.

This is interesting, since we are not a democracy - we are a Republic.
 
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