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Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

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Created on : Friday, November 17, 2006, 12:57:50 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Parents want the best for their children, but what’s the best way to educate them? Dr. Phil’s guests face off in a debate about whether to school, homeschool or unschool. Dana and her husband, Joe, call themselves radical unschoolers. They say education happens as a side effect of life, and they don’t believe in tests, curriculums or grades. Are their three kids learning what they need to know? Then, RaeAnn says public schools are death traps and wants to homeschool her children. Her husband, Steve, says their kids are safer at school than they are at home. Can this couple reach a compromise? Plus, Nicole feels like an outcast at 26. She says she hated being homeschooled, and couldn’t relate to other kids. Share your thoughts here.

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November 24, 2006, 6:35 am PST

We're unschoolers

(This is my second attempt to post. I apologise if both of them show up)

 

We removed our three from school a short while after we adopted them and we began unschooling from the start. I realise that a lot of you have never even heard of unschooling, let alone really understand it. I'd like to leave a few links for you to check out when you have some free time. These are blogs by unschooling families and they'll give you a glimpse into their lives. The first one is mine.

 

http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/

http://radicalunschooling.blogspot.com/

http://organiclearning.blogspot.com/

http://zenmommasgarden.blogspot.com/

http://robinsblueskies.blogspot.com/

 

Thanks and have a great day!

Joanne

 

 
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November 24, 2006, 6:37 am PST

My daughter has 26 kids in her class!

I live in a small town (it has less than 3,000 people (really) and they bus in kids from other rural towns and  our school  teaches all of them.  I was  enraged to find out that my daughter has 26 plus kids in her class.  Not only is that ignorant of the school system, but there is only one other class for 3rd graders (equally as full).

 I have ADD and my son exhibits signs of ADHD.  My daughter does exceptionally well for the lack of one on one time from the teacher. The teacher and her do have a great relationship, but what happens when my son goes to 3rd grade?  Will he be expected to perform at those same standards?  He has trouble with sitting still and paying attention now.  His kindergarten class consists of 12 kids (he has all day special ed class) and I think that is wonderful.  His kindergarten class has helped him so well that I cannot help but wonder about what they will do next year....I guess my questions should be addressed to the school but here i am asking you all......If you had a child you knew needed one on one, would you insist the school accomodate or would you take it upon yourself to teach them?  For my situation I don't feel I could give him more than what he is getting today.  In a few years, that may change. 

So, I guess I just want others to view my questions and concerns and voice an opinion to give me something to think about.  Happy Thanksgiving:)
 
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November 24, 2006, 6:42 am PST

Do you think that would work for a child with ADD or ADHD?

Quote From: blondie62

I homeschooled my three children, starting when my youngest was in the start of 7th grade, my middle child was in 10th and my oldest was in 11th grade.  I did this because my middle child who was in all advanced classes, was REQUIRED to read a book about a man that lived in the deep south who had been sodomized and abused as a child and how he overcame that life and became successful.  The book was quite graphic.  I did not want my daughter reading this book, however her teacher and the school said read it or get a zero for the class.  At that point, I had had enough and pulled all three out of school.

I found a wonderful "umbrella" school to use, which allowed us to choose our own curriculum within the state laws. The headmaster had multiple ,PHD's in Education, Religion, etc.. I had to make progress reports to both the umbrella school and the state.  There are many curriculums to choose from and many ways to learn..from books to internet courses to a combination of both.

While I faced many naysayers, my children flourished and became closer to each other by helping one another and working together.

 We had a set schedule every day, which allowed us to have ALL of their work done within four hours, and allowed each of them to volunteer for church, extra curricular activities, and jobs.  All three kids graduated with College Prep diplomas, with honors,  and were accepted at multiple colleges and universities throughout the U.S..

None of my children suffered from this.  Would I reccomend it to others?  It depends on the circumstances for everyone involved.  I do NOT believe in "Unschooling".  I do believe in being involved in your childrens' education and taking charge if necessary.  It is not easy..you need commitment from your children and family.  I do recommend allowing children to go to school from Kindergarten until at least middle school, when all of the "crap" starts that can damage children, pshychologicaly, forever.  The kids need to learn all of the basics and the best place for that IS school.  From middle school on, it is debatable.

As with most things in life, there are pros and cons to both sides.

I ask because if my son doesn't get the appropriate amount of help when he reaches  3rd or 4th grade, I will be  doing something about  his education as well.  I suffer from add and know how badly i struggled with 26+ kids in my class, it was murder.  I wasnot  able to understand many of the requirements for each assignment and often missed simple steps.  I am hoping to find some progressive way to handle add without medication for him and myself ( im going back to college).

thanks,

Melissa
 
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November 24, 2006, 6:48 am PST

Home Schooled Public School Teacher

I am fascinated by this episode! I am a 31 year old public school teacher who happened to have been homeschooled from 3rd grade through high school along with my brother.  It was an awesome experience. My Mom ran a family business and took on the tremendous responsibilty of our education. It is an overwhelming task and it is not for everybody. Parents who homeschool have to understand this. This is not about sheltering their children. It is about providing the best one on one education and going beyond the doors of traditional school education. I also see the value in public school. I see it every day. I am impressed with my colleagues professionalism and care for our students.  The energy and the task of public school teachers is grand and overwhelming. We still have a system that allows children from all walks of life to get an education and make something of themselves. This is a great American gift.

However, I am not impressed with the "socialization" arguement it is disturbing when teachers ask this instead of asking how well the education process is going. I see very poorly socialized and very well socialized students everyday. It has little to do with the "school building". I have met poorly socialized adults whom attended public schools and I have met well socialized adults who were homeschooled.

Unschooling sounds a bit too free and unstructured, I hope people can separate that from home schooling. I am unfamiliar so that is all I can say about unschooling.

Homeschooling worked for us. Yet people are always responding in surprise at how we are the exception and I smile and agree that my brother and I are exceptional! I have a masters degree in education and my brother has three undergrad degrees and three masters degrees in geology, math and physics.

I believe we are well adjusted, educated, contributing members of society and so it worked. I think it is grand to live in a free society where people do have the choice for how best to educated our children and are free to debate all these ideas! God Bless America!

 
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November 24, 2006, 6:49 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

blondie62 wrote:
"I do NOT believe in "Unschooling".  I do believe in being involved in your childrens' education and taking charge if necessary."

---

Can you please, if you dont mind,  clarify what you believe unschooling to be, and if you think that it means not being in charge of your children's learning and taking charge?

As an unschooler myself, I am fully involved with what they are learning and taking charge, and providing the seeds for them to water at all times.  I don't understand why people believe that unschooling is a contradiction in terms to "being involved in your children's education."

For us, unschooling is simply defined as our children growing up with all they need to for life, learning it through unoffical or alternative means.  Sometimes the children are self-motivated, other times a parent or someone else they associate makes them aware of new things to study or pursue.

I understand that the idea of not going through official or mainstream paths to achieve the means for a child to transition to adulthood is a new one for many people.  It takes time to think about and understand it.
 
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November 24, 2006, 6:56 am PST

Both better than most parents.

I feel no matter which method any parents use it is always the

parents that give the most input to a child learning or not.

Many children are in public schools and failing the most

fundamentals like Math and English?  I am sure there is a few

also failing these at home schools.  It is why they have the periodic

testing to find out where the children are at?

   I also think it is absurd that in the public schools before the testing

the children are given focused teaching 'to pass that test'!

Random testing for both would prove weather any teacher in public

schools and home schooling is giving each individual what they need?

As like so many things in our culture, HOW a child is raised does not

always predict what happens to them in society or thier social skills.

There is those who in school was very popular, good grades and good

parents that can go bad just like there is those who had bad grades, not

popular and unhealthy parents that succeeded well to great members of

our society.

                      The most important things  a parent gives thier children is Love,

Structure, Consistant rules to function in rules and education.

Our laws need to protect ALL children including those home schooled, not

in school at all and in public schools.  Thus giving random tests to schools

which contains material that a teacher does not know is contained in it,

simple questions that give a look into how the child feels about life and

learning and logic solving problems would solve alot of the problems in

them all.    I cheer on the parents so involved with their kids.

 
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November 24, 2006, 7:01 am PST

Can someone answer this question?

I posted a few days ago about the requirements of parents with responsibilities to the state of New York with regards to forms and paperwork. New York requires a LOT of detailed paperwork. One of the forms is called an IHIP, and on this form, you have to detail the curriculum you are using and it has to be approved before you get a letter of acceptance from the superintendent of your district. What information do unschoolers use for their paperwork or do they not have to file anything with the government? I am aware that some states are more heavily regulated than others, and New York is one of the highest regulated states in the nation. We are homeschoolers of two teens who were in the school system for 8 and 9 years; and together as a family, my husband, two children, and I decided that homeschooling was the best choice for us.
 
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November 24, 2006, 7:05 am PST

agree but

Quote From: meldcox

I am fascinated by this episode! I am a 31 year old public school teacher who happened to have been homeschooled from 3rd grade through high school along with my brother.  It was an awesome experience. My Mom ran a family business and took on the tremendous responsibilty of our education. It is an overwhelming task and it is not for everybody. Parents who homeschool have to understand this. This is not about sheltering their children. It is about providing the best one on one education and going beyond the doors of traditional school education. I also see the value in public school. I see it every day. I am impressed with my colleagues professionalism and care for our students.  The energy and the task of public school teachers is grand and overwhelming. We still have a system that allows children from all walks of life to get an education and make something of themselves. This is a great American gift.

However, I am not impressed with the "socialization" arguement it is disturbing when teachers ask this instead of asking how well the education process is going. I see very poorly socialized and very well socialized students everyday. It has little to do with the "school building". I have met poorly socialized adults whom attended public schools and I have met well socialized adults who were homeschooled.

Unschooling sounds a bit too free and unstructured, I hope people can separate that from home schooling. I am unfamiliar so that is all I can say about unschooling.

Homeschooling worked for us. Yet people are always responding in surprise at how we are the exception and I smile and agree that my brother and I are exceptional! I have a masters degree in education and my brother has three undergrad degrees and three masters degrees in geology, math and physics.

I believe we are well adjusted, educated, contributing members of society and so it worked. I think it is grand to live in a free society where people do have the choice for how best to educated our children and are free to debate all these ideas! God Bless America!

I agree, it is not bad to home school.  I do have a problem with the

Mother sitting there still breast feeding a 5 year old and giving her a

bottle, she needs educated to tooth decay and that breast feeding

as awesome as it is, I breast fed mine, is for infants, babies and even

a toddler but then the milk is no more than a weekly vitamin.

She also did not seem to give proper structure which teaches a child

about self control nor did she seem to understand that a child does

not have the ability to decision making skills unless taught them and

learning through being given it?

   ALL children need protected and tested to find what is going on for

sure and certainly the government giving testing that shows it all

without a parent or teacher preping them for the test would show more.

Not ALL of anything is all right or all wrong All has problems?

 
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November 24, 2006, 7:05 am PST

Legalities

In most states, it is against the law  to keep children home from school. Are these home schoolers exempt from the law? If so, why do they think they are priviledged from society?  Legalities should have been brought up.  Also, if these parents Do NOT have at  least a master's degree or a PHD, how can they teach these kids past the 6th grade?  Dr. Phil was right on when he said that kids don't know consequences and cannot possibly make the right decision. especially w/educational choices.  Elaine

 
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November 24, 2006, 7:07 am PST

The defenders of the public schools are full of it!

 Just going over a few facts: colleges have far more respect for homeschooled students than public school students.  Socialization can happen just fine in churches and other places.

Now for my main attack: I was a high school teacher for a year, and my experiences there convinced me that I would NEVER EVER allow one of my children to be educated in a public school.  One teacher on the show claimed that teachers are constantly being educated.  Nonsense!  We were constantly barraged with how to implement the latest education fad.  It wasted our time.  My education classes did not teach me how to teach.  I taught in college for years with great success, and I found that a lot of the "classes" for teachers were silly.  I observed "students with disabilities" systematicly taught that they cannot succeed, despite the intentions of their teachers.  I saw students "socialized" by hooking up with the cool crowd that happens to be a gang. 

As far as academics, I taught seniors in PreCalculus who couldn't do basic graphing without their calculators, because all the classes their math teachers took, and the math "standards" for the state, basicly require them to use a calculator instead of their brain.  I observed about two weeks of the school year consumed with social non-sense that completely disrupted the pace of education.

Finally, I observed students disrupt the class for those who wanted to learn.  I observed parents who didn't care that their child was misbehaving.  I observed a system that cares more about some fake sense of self-esteem than about accomplishment.  I observed a discipline system that couldn't remove a trouble student for 6 months, despite at least three teachers writing non-stop referals.  He was finally removed when he threatened another teacher.

I live in South Carolina, and the public schools here are a disaster.  I live in the upstate, where there's enough money to fund the schools, and they're a disaster.  Book publishers are forced to put politically correct material into history textbooks at the expense of true history that may not be flattering to one group or another, so that Texas and California will buy their books.

Now for the other side: the unschoolers are full of it.  Your children need to learn math.  They need to learn grammar rules (that aren't taught in SC public schools).  These are things that are not fun, but are essential for your child to be able to compete for jobs.  Deadlines are real, and often are not oben to negotiation.
 
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