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Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

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Created on : Friday, November 17, 2006, 12:57:50 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Parents want the best for their children, but what’s the best way to educate them? Dr. Phil’s guests face off in a debate about whether to school, homeschool or unschool. Dana and her husband, Joe, call themselves radical unschoolers. They say education happens as a side effect of life, and they don’t believe in tests, curriculums or grades. Are their three kids learning what they need to know? Then, RaeAnn says public schools are death traps and wants to homeschool her children. Her husband, Steve, says their kids are safer at school than they are at home. Can this couple reach a compromise? Plus, Nicole feels like an outcast at 26. She says she hated being homeschooled, and couldn’t relate to other kids. Share your thoughts here.

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November 24, 2006, 7:33 am PST

home non-schooling

The woman towards the end of your program with the 3 children who are home non-schooled worried me.  The children, when faced with a question from Dr. Phil, were unable to formulate a comeback response.  That is because (I feel) they have not been exposed to basic human contact which allows the brain to "learn" how to interact socially.  When asked who the mayor of a foreign land was, that poor young man just basically stared.  Someone with social skills would have smiled or laughed at the question, or even retored with something like, "I'll have to look that up for you."  Even the 6 year old had that "deer in the headlights" look about her.  And finally, none of the children smiled during the short time the camera was on them.  I did not detect self-confidence or happiness in the group.  I have always maintained that we live in a social world and social skills is something that must be learned from very young and going to school not only teaches us how to interact with peers but also how to handle the many challenges that comes with having a boss (in the younger years it would be a teacher, pricipal, etc).  Thank you to Dr. Phil for doing a show on this topic.  It was, as always, very insightful.  Best wishes.
 
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November 24, 2006, 7:37 am PST

Thumbs Up

Quote From: tlmurr

I posted a few days ago about the requirements of parents with responsibilities to the state of New York with regards to forms and paperwork. New York requires a LOT of detailed paperwork. One of the forms is called an IHIP, and on this form, you have to detail the curriculum you are using and it has to be approved before you get a letter of acceptance from the superintendent of your district. What information do unschoolers use for their paperwork or do they not have to file anything with the government? I am aware that some states are more heavily regulated than others, and New York is one of the highest regulated states in the nation. We are homeschoolers of two teens who were in the school system for 8 and 9 years; and together as a family, my husband, two children, and I decided that homeschooling was the best choice for us.

Don't pay any attention to all these nay-sayers out there.  A 26 year old woman on the show will say she feels like an outcast and couldn't relate to other kids.  Well at 26 I felt like an outcast (and still do at 36),  I couldn't relate well with other kids or people either - and I went to school all my life!  I'm an only child of a small family and have always been extremely shy- even within my own family.  How a person is socialized by their family, family friends and neighbors has just as much of an effect on a child's development as school does, maybe more because the family has a head start with the child.  I know plenty of wonderfully socialized people who were homeshooled and some very screwed-up, depressed, introverted and lazy people who went all the way through the school system. 

Please don't give up because of the paperwork.  Just ask the Department of Ed to send you the school's curriculum.  Copy that in your own handwriting and send it in.  I'm not saying to be dishonest.  Stick to it as best you can and make changes as you like as long as you don't leave out necessary things.

 
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November 24, 2006, 7:46 am PST

watching the show now

Well, I'm 19 and I graduated in 2005 from a PUBLIC school.  I came out of it alive and well. I think that children need to be exposed to public schools and peers. I know that there are a lot of negative things that occur, but I think that children need to be exposed to these things in order to know how to handle the situation. They need to make the choice for themselves to do or not to do these things. With the proper morals being taught at home, I believe they will make the right choice. Also, the home schooling and un-schooling parents are saying that their children are still being exposed to peers and being able to do things with kids their age. The problem is, they are being exposed to one type of peer, the church group, or their soccar team, instead of being in a public school and getting to choose what group they would like to be a part of. They are not being exposed to the diversity they need to remain open-minded.
 
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November 24, 2006, 7:47 am PST

It gets worse

Quote From: aureille

I think it is rather distressing the extremeness that is implied in the show for Nov. 24th.  I can imagine that there are many homeschool families that do not do their jobs in the way of educating their children.  But I believe that the ration of those families to those who actually do teach their children is probably no different as compared to the same children that attend public or private schools.

 

I can assure you that a homeschooling family who are doing what they are supposed to be doing (even in the case of unschooling) have not choosen the lazy way out.  Teaching is a full time job, no matter who is doing it.  Now try to teach two or more curriculums/unit studies/or be organized enough to teach your multiple children's spontinaity of interests and you will find you have little time to clean, shop, or even get your hair cut. 

 

I also believed (before deciding to homeschool) that every school, teacher, or school administrator and the parents were the key to a child's education.  If a child had active parents and teachers, then the child would learn.  There was no such thing as a bad school.  I believed this until we moved to our new location.  Teachers on EVERY level would not talk with me, answer notes or return phone calls.  The principal told me she did not deal with certain grade levels.  NO ONE attended my preschooler's IEP meeting that was scheduled at the school staff's confinence.  My children told me that teachers tore up art projects, screamed at children, and there were fights daily.  Perhaps they over exaggerating?  I have no idea, I couldn't get ANYONE at the school to respond. 

 

So I pulled them from the school.  I attempted to wait for the school to notice my children were not attending.  Worried about getting a truancy report, I called the school after 4 days to inform them I was applying to the state to do a homestudy program.  They asked me if I was coming in early to pick them up and take them home early for the day???

 

Yes on most levels in this country, our children are blessed with the free education they recieve.  But I too am blessed with having a strong desire to learn and an even stronger desire to give my children the best.  NO ONE will ever convince me that the public school district where we currently live is the best learning environment for my children. 

 

Do I believe that all public schools fall into this catagory?  NO  I have members within my family and friends whom are educators.  I have adored some of my children's teachers in the past.  Some have truely helped my children overcome some personal issues.  But on the other hand,  I am very glad I have the option to bring my children home. 

 

I truely believe that this show will do a great disservice to the many people in this country who not only have serious reasons to decide to homeschool, but who are doing great jobs at it. 

 

 While I was a teacher, I heard about middle-school math teachers who were teaching math incorrectly.  They were teaching fractions and percents INCORRECTLY, and teaching their students how to get the wrong answers.  Believe me, it can get even worse, if you can believe it.
 
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November 24, 2006, 7:48 am PST

homeschooling is good

I definitely believe in homeschooling. I'm a teacher assistant and the public school system in America is not good. If anyone has seen dateline it is true. We are one of the dumbest countries. They're kids in public schools that get left behind that cant even read through high school. I think smaller schools and home schooling is the best. The more one on one help is better understanding to the children than going to a big school and the teacher doesn't even know your name. I speak from experience.I went to a big high school and none of the teachers could even remember my name. I fell behind because the teachers were too busy with the other 30 kids in my class, that they couldn't give one on one help. I then fell behind, So my mom pulled me out and put me in an alternative high school which i passed everything because the teachers knew me and what pace i work at. I personally don't want to send my kids to public schools.
 
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November 24, 2006, 7:49 am PST

Social Misfit?

My husband teaches at a private university.  He has an entire class of 40 socially misfit, badly educated public school graduates.  A fellow professor at another college has a class of public school graduates who do not even know how to spell or put a sentence together, and she is having to focus all her efforts teaching them these basic concepts.  We have homeschooled graduates in our church who are exceptionally socially adept as well as well-spoken and well-rounded.  They have also been successful in their first years of college and onward into their careers.  Most homeschool students I personally know are brighter and more motivated to learn than most of the public school kids I know. 
 
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November 24, 2006, 7:51 am PST

Public school has changed since they've been there!

It really sounds to me that this [unschooling] couple hasn't been in the public schools since they were students themselves.  Their conversation included things like "teachers who stand in front telling the kids" the content, which is something that hasn't been done in our schools for many, many years.  Teaching in the public schools, from beginning years through at least 8th grade, has taken on the face of independent learning, cooperative learning, research opportunities, and many other avenues that go way beyond a teacher standing in front of the group, lecturing; that picture is extremely rare in today's schools.  Our goals, as teachers, are to find the ways in which students are able to learn in the best ways possible.  We teach to their strengths, changing those methods so that each student's strength is met at some point along the way.  It isn't possible for every student's strength to be hit every single time; you help them to make those less strong ways of learning a little bit stronger each time around.  I believe these people are doing their children an injustice and that those children will definitely have more difficulties as adults as a result. 

 
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November 24, 2006, 7:58 am PST

Schools

I got out of school 40 years ago.  I didn't do well, not from being stupid, I had an IQ of 142 at that time.  Because I chose not to participate in sports and other related activities I was black-balled and treated differently than the kids that participated.   I did box and wrestle for our local Boys Club after school and on weekends and when the school atheletes and bullies decided to pick on me I fought back and they soon figured out to leave me alone....  This type of thing happens on a daily basis in our school systems..  This type of activity breeds the people doing the shootings.     Public schools have been on the decline since the Federal Government got involved.     I taught school for 2 years just not to long ago, because I wanted to give back to the kids my knowledge and experiences and hopefully make their future a little brighter.  I soon realized the administration was not concerned about the education of the student, but how much funding that kid could bring in!!    No student left behind!!   I'm sorry but in real life if you can't cut it or don't want to apply yourself, you are left behind!!!   I had a student, from a single parent home, that was supposedly A.D.D..  In a very short period of time, with my working with this young man, I found all he needed was a little special attention and more one-on-one training..   But if he was found to be okay the school lost about $1800.00 annually in funding!!         The other thing that made my decision not to teach any longer was no discipline in the schools!!   The students can assualt the teacher and nothing happens...            My wife was a receptionist for 6 doctors.  3 of the 6 home schooled their children and the kids were very intelligent and well mannered and interacted very well with others.    There are pluses and minuses in both situations.   We have to decide which is best for us...   The wealthy have sent their kids to private schools for years, there is a reason, BETTER EDUCATION!!   The Public School System is a JOKE!!
 
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November 24, 2006, 7:59 am PST

I was homeschooled

I think Dr. Phil's show was a little biased.  He only showed one homeschooler, who happened to hate homeschooling and thought it made her socially inept. 

I was homeschooled from kindergarten all the way through twelve grade.  I have never felt socially inept.  I have many, many friends and acquaintances and I am happily married.

 As far as academics go, I graduated a semester early with a 3.99 cumulative GPA.  I participated in a rigorous honors program in my university, made my University's Dean's List every semester, was inducted into several honor societies, and my name is listed in Who's Who Among College Students and the National Dean's List.

Homeschooling was a very valuable and helpful experience for me.  However, I will quickly admit that homeschooling is not very everyone!  That being said, if I had to redo my schooling, I would definitely choose homeschooling.   
  

 
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November 24, 2006, 8:01 am PST

Two years and going strong

Quote From: scorpiopoodle

Don't pay any attention to all these nay-sayers out there.  A 26 year old woman on the show will say she feels like an outcast and couldn't relate to other kids.  Well at 26 I felt like an outcast (and still do at 36),  I couldn't relate well with other kids or people either - and I went to school all my life!  I'm an only child of a small family and have always been extremely shy- even within my own family.  How a person is socialized by their family, family friends and neighbors has just as much of an effect on a child's development as school does, maybe more because the family has a head start with the child.  I know plenty of wonderfully socialized people who were homeshooled and some very screwed-up, depressed, introverted and lazy people who went all the way through the school system. 

Please don't give up because of the paperwork.  Just ask the Department of Ed to send you the school's curriculum.  Copy that in your own handwriting and send it in.  I'm not saying to be dishonest.  Stick to it as best you can and make changes as you like as long as you don't leave out necessary things.

Oh, believe me, LOL...I have been doing the paperwork and have had no problems with my superintendent at all. He's been great! I just read a lot of homeschooling sites and magazines and have support groups of other homeschoolers who are not happy with the amount of paperwork required in our state. What happens is that we turn all this paperwork in along with a letter of intent at the beginning of the year, then the school replies with their acceptance or denial. We then have to submit quarterly progress reports and the results of a standardized test that we pay for and we make arrangements for our children to take. The only thing the school does is submit our paperwork to the state, and heck, we could do that ourselves. Lots of homeschoolers in the state of NY do not have access to anything that the public schools offer that is extra-curricular, and in rural areas, this can be a problem for them (it isn't for our family, fortunately). We still have to pay school taxes, so I can understand how the elderly feel who have to pay school taxes and don't have children in school. I think NY should come up with a better system for that. We also cannot use any of our out of pocket expenditures for homeschooling as a tax write off, and I just found a great deal on a compound microscope for my biology student; however, it was still expensive. There are a lot of things like this that I am sure the Dr. Phil show didn't have time to address in one show.
 
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