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Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

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Created on : Friday, November 17, 2006, 12:57:50 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Parents want the best for their children, but what’s the best way to educate them? Dr. Phil’s guests face off in a debate about whether to school, homeschool or unschool. Dana and her husband, Joe, call themselves radical unschoolers. They say education happens as a side effect of life, and they don’t believe in tests, curriculums or grades. Are their three kids learning what they need to know? Then, RaeAnn says public schools are death traps and wants to homeschool her children. Her husband, Steve, says their kids are safer at school than they are at home. Can this couple reach a compromise? Plus, Nicole feels like an outcast at 26. She says she hated being homeschooled, and couldn’t relate to other kids. Share your thoughts here.

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November 24, 2006, 8:25 am PST

Very Happy Homeschooler

I am very upset with the view of homeschooling that I just heard on the show. I was in a private school from Kindergarten until 10th grade. Then in 11th grade I was homeschooled. I currently have a little brother who is homeschooled. My daughter is the same grade as my little brother. She goes to a private school. My little brother has tested higher every year on his state testing than my daughter. I personally would homeschool however it is impossible for my family situation of other children and both parents needing to work.

 

As far as the question DR PHIL asked on how the kids that are homeschool would fair on SAT test, they fair great! I tested out of many of my college classes. My sister went to college a year early and graduated at the top of her class. She is now a public school teacher who sends her child to a private school. Do to the fact she feels that as a teacher she is held back from giving her class kids all they need to learn due to the budget. It all has to do with the dedication of the parent to teach their children. I do not agree with the NO Schooling method. I believe that children should learn all of the curriculam that is available out there. With homeschooling the children are not held back by other students in a class who don't care if they learn or not. They learn it and go on and so in reality they learn more.

 

As far as the study on developmental deficits in homeschooling children. I would like to see it. I for one went to homecoming and prom. I even played volleyball at my local high school and was a member of FCA. I am pictured in the schools yearbook. Some school districts allow children who are homeschooled to participate in extra curricular activities. As in the state of Ohio. I have known homeschoolers who have played varsity football, tennis, golf, and baseball for the local highschool. It takes the parent to be make the initiative to get their kids involved.

 

I went on to be a very successful in college. I was a cheerleader for the women's basketball team, I was the team manager for the men's basketball team, I was the president of FCA and a member of Rotaract club. After college I went to work for the Salvation Army and worked with battered women. I also have been the director of several nursing homes Alzheimer's programs. I currently own my own consulting business and I am nationally certified in my field.

 

So the bottom line is, KIDS can thrive and learn more in the homeschooling environment if their parents are dedicated to giving them a well rounded environment. Its not all like the picture that was painted on the show.

 
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November 24, 2006, 8:28 am PST

Homeschooling is legal in 50 states

Quote From: elainie1206

In most states, it is against the law  to keep children home from school. Are these home schoolers exempt from the law? If so, why do they think they are priviledged from society?  Legalities should have been brought up.  Also, if these parents Do NOT have at  least a master's degree or a PHD, how can they teach these kids past the 6th grade?  Dr. Phil was right on when he said that kids don't know consequences and cannot possibly make the right decision. especially w/educational choices.  Elaine

Each state has its own regulations, but one way or another it is legal. 

 

I don't think any states require a masters degree and certainly not a PhD for teaching beyond 6th grade. 

 

Personally, I'm not convinced that my PhD aids my ability as a parent, but it certainly seems to be something non-homeschoolers focus on when giving their approval of my choice to unschool.

 
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November 24, 2006, 8:29 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: eh94336

When I was in college one of my professors made a comment that has stuck with me.  As an educator you will face one issue that no onther profession encounters - everyone has been to school and "knows the best way to teach."  While I know that no one knows a child quite as well as their parents, I also know that, unless they are a teacher, no parent knows quite as well how to teach as a teacher.  We have gone through at least four years of training to be licensed and ceritified to teach the youth of america.  A parent that is homeschooling or unschooling their child does not have the credentials a trained professional teacher has.  Homeschooling and unschooling is providing a disservice to the children in that regard.  I am a parent and know the benefit of public school education.  Even though I have been trained on the best practices in education, I would never pull my child out of the educational system and home or unschool him.  This is becauce there are regulations in place to make sure that all students are recieveing the same education and the teachers are held accountable for the education of the students.  How are parents of these children being held accountable for No Child Left Behind?  

 

People in this country are upset about the Social Security debate.  We are paying money into a system that will not be there when we get older.  If you are homeschooling or unschooling your child, arent you doing the same thing?  Paying for a service you are not recieving?  Regardless if your child goes to public school or not, part of your tax dollars will be going to pay for school programs, teacher's salaries and other school related expenses.  If you are paying for it, why not take advantage of the services this great country provides and the expertise the teachers in the school system possess?

Homeschoolers do not take advantage of public school, even though their taxes support it, because they believe that for their children there's a better way. 
 
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November 24, 2006, 8:31 am PST

A wealth of public teachers

Quote From: eh94336

When I was in college one of my professors made a comment that has stuck with me.  As an educator you will face one issue that no onther profession encounters - everyone has been to school and "knows the best way to teach."  While I know that no one knows a child quite as well as their parents, I also know that, unless they are a teacher, no parent knows quite as well how to teach as a teacher.  We have gone through at least four years of training to be licensed and ceritified to teach the youth of america.  A parent that is homeschooling or unschooling their child does not have the credentials a trained professional teacher has.  Homeschooling and unschooling is providing a disservice to the children in that regard.  I am a parent and know the benefit of public school education.  Even though I have been trained on the best practices in education, I would never pull my child out of the educational system and home or unschool him.  This is becauce there are regulations in place to make sure that all students are recieveing the same education and the teachers are held accountable for the education of the students.  How are parents of these children being held accountable for No Child Left Behind?  

 

People in this country are upset about the Social Security debate.  We are paying money into a system that will not be there when we get older.  If you are homeschooling or unschooling your child, arent you doing the same thing?  Paying for a service you are not recieving?  Regardless if your child goes to public school or not, part of your tax dollars will be going to pay for school programs, teacher's salaries and other school related expenses.  If you are paying for it, why not take advantage of the services this great country provides and the expertise the teachers in the school system possess?

I have four public teachers in my family and four friends who are teachers in the public system. I gather information from them all the time about what is up and coming in the system and new methods, and such. One of the teachers actually homeschooled her boys when they were young, and she just went back to teaching again. She has said that she wishes she had taught them right through high school because of the things she sees and hears daily in the halls of the school.

 

The fact that you say our children should receive the "same education" is problematic to me. I remember being able to choose, once in 9th grade, which courses I wanted to take and whether or not they were college prep or vocational classes.  I wouldn't want a child who wants to become an art teacher or the like to have to concentrate alot of energy on calculus and physics if that is not what their chosen vocation is going to lead.  I think they should have a choice once they are old enough because if I remember right, most of us did.

 
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November 24, 2006, 8:33 am PST

Great School Debate

Dear Dr, Phil,

I am a Grandma and have raised 4 children (all went to public schools) and have 6 grandchildren.  I have volunteered in our schools for my children and my grandchildren.  I am for Christian Schooling and Home Schooling.  Why?  Because of the prejudice that is in our small town schools from grade school to the High School.  I know of a 1st grader who is not getting an education.  The teacher said she should be labled ADD and given medication.  She is tutored 1/2 hour and is at a child care provider.  My grandson was in the same school and his teacher said his Mother should get him medication.  Talk to the Dr. and get him to say he is ADD  (Iam not sure of the abreviation) so he can get medication.  Oh, the teacher said he was disruptive to the class during tests because he taps his pencil on the desk during tests.  I also believe the high school is to graphic on subjects pertaining to sex education.  You can not go in the schools and visit anytime because of security reasons.  This takes a lot of surprise of showing up.  This way the teachers are alerted and schedule subjects appropriately.

Thank you for your concern.  A concerned Grandma.

 

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November 24, 2006, 8:33 am PST

I agree

Quote From: michelle_ev

It sounds to me that to make a blanket statement like you did here "Public School system is a JOKE" is a true sign of pure ignorance because it is nothing less than a hasty generalization.

 

You just insulted many teachers with your ignorance. Reconsider your tone and all those educated teachers you are offending. No housewife, mother can teach at the level of educated, certified teachers. Get a grip my friend.  

After reading this message about public school being a joke, I was outraged.  I completely agree with the response and have a comment of my own to add.  My best friend went to public school until high school at which point she transferred to private.  Let me tell you she hated every minute of it.  Besides the fact that the private schools I have been exposed to have a higher drug usage rate because they have the money that it takes to participate in these activities, there is the social aspect.  I have had friends that have done both come from private to public and gone from public to private.  I have even had friends that have gone from public to private back to public.  The students that went from private to public were at least half a grade level behind upon returning to public education.  What does that tell you about private school if public is a joke?
 
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November 24, 2006, 8:34 am PST

How?

Quote From: winterwarmth

 
michelle ev wrote:
"As for the un-schooling that was talked about today, to me, it sounded like the most preposterous approach I have ever heard to teaching. Again, as Dr. Phil stated, preparing a child for the real world certainly requires a great deal of structure and becoming familiar with how life will be in the real world when they are asked to perform. By parents allowing children to do as they please, when they want, on their own accord, they are doing a disservice to them because this clearly does not mirror the real world. Instead, it harms them and only sets them up for failure in adapting to that new reality."

Oh, I can't wait until I can watch this show, so I'll be able to respond directly in the context of how it was portrayed on the show.  In the meantime here I will answer from my own experience.

Unschooling does not mean "no structure."  Many activities my children are engaged in require structure, being on time (or they miss out!), sometimes doing "boring things" or getting up when they may not feel like it, to get to the meat and potatoes of what they want.  I have confidence that when they grow up, they will have matured with a working knowledge and will be completely comfortable for work or activities which require structure.  They are preparing for it. 

Unschooling encompasses a vast myriad of the many facets of life.  In our real lives they encounter friendly people, rude people, freestyle activities, structured activities, volunteering, working for pay, life skills.  Our lives would be flat out B-O-R-I-N-G if any of the above were eliminated.  Does one have to be in a school to be raised with the knowledge that structure is a part of life, otherwise they'll be totally bewildered and a fish out of water when presented with a schedule?


So, humor me, how is that a parent who "un-schools" their children truly think that they are doing what is best for them? The problem is that they are doing what they "think" they should do to help the child become well-rounded. Are they educated teachers or educated at all – maybe, if their kids are lucky. Chances are, probably not. It sounds to me like a pathetic attempt to either protect them from like or some self-serving mission to keep them under their thumb.

 

Personally, I would want my children to learn a wide variety of ideas, concepts, etc. and to do it in a structured forum with certified, fully educated teachers who teach as a profession. Yeah, call me crazy, but I’d actually want them to have the best chance at succeeding in their education!

 

How can parents truly think that they can offer a child what a teacher can? Education is not a hobby you can just “pick-up” as you go. This idea is simply as preposterous as the entire concept of "un-schooling" is. Then again, they are your kids so – “good luck with that” and how they turn out.

 

Michelle

 

 
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November 24, 2006, 8:35 am PST

Public School way to go

 

When I was in elementy school, I had to make the decision to go on to sixth grade, or stay back in 5th grade. I held myself back deciding that it would be better for me to learn than move on. I never was able to have full consintration during school, the reason for this is for 21 years I had consistant nocternal seizures. These seizures stiped me of the energy needed for school, but my parents kept me in the public scholl system for most of my education.

When I heard Nicole make her comments I completly agreed.  After graduating from high school in 1997 I wanted to move on to college, but that just was not to be. I was set on going to college that it became a emotional problem, I ended up having an emotional break down because I was not in school. The break down lasted five years off and on untill I was excepted by Wright State University in 2002. I have always been a part time student at Wright State, I had to go through two years of relearning lower level education to prepare me for college level classes. I got the grade this week that sent me into the junior class.

 

I think that the parents that are for no school do not think about their children getting in to college, college is a great experience and helps you gain your independence. At 28 years of age I still have to live woih my parents, and I would be alot less happy in life if I was not able to go to college.

I do agree with Dr. Phil that there is no problem with home school up untill junior high, but home school through high school is a risk in my mind.

 
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November 24, 2006, 8:36 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: jendog1

The parents on your show who homeschooled or unschooled their children seemed like fairly intelligent, somewhat eductated people.  My problem with homeschooling is that many parents who choose to do this are not educated or intelligent.  This adds to the already too-high illiteracy rates we have in our country. 

 

We have a high unemployment rate in our area and many parents claim that they are homeschooling, but in reality are using it as an excuse not to have to get up and get their children out the door to school.  Even though, in our state, homeschooled children and their parents are required to meet with a licensed educator who is supposed to act as a mentor, it is very difficult to monitor this to ensure that it is actually happening.  Many children do not get the necessary reading, writing, and math skills and often fall through the cracks. 

 

I also have grave concerns about special needs children.  It is difficult enough to teach "normal" children, but what about those children who have specific learning disabilities, like dyslexia, that untrained professionals don't know how to educate or even identify. 

I am responding to your last paragraph.

One of my children was a special ed student who was blessed with a very good teacher.  I found her in-context and on topic advice to be very valuable to me.

She was also my biggest supporter and advocate when we decided to opt out of the mainstream system, and pointed us to various support systems.  She pointed out things to watch out for, difficulties I may expect, and where to get help if I did.  My child's needs were minor compared to what many would call "special needs", but it helped nonetheless.

A parent would have to be darn near comatose to not recognize when they need outside support for their children.  A lot of these special needs children didn't suddenly turn special needs when they hit "school age", so it's likely they had been receiving support elsewhere before school hit. I know this was true of my own daughter.  In the area where we live, parents of special needs children in school, unschooled, homeschooled, adults (some of them do grow up!) have many resources upon which to draw from.

 
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November 24, 2006, 8:37 am PST

Easy way out...

Quote From: homeschooljen

Homeschoolers do not take advantage of public school, even though their taxes support it, because they believe that for their children there's a better way. 

Come on now, if you are not happy with your public school system, the easy way out is to avoid it. The more challenging approach would be to actually speak up and get involved with the school system through programs etc. Now, now, that would require work and effort. Most people opt for the easy way out. Avoidance.

 
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