Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

I have no desire to pit one "method'" vs another.

But I want to qualify the special needs issue for a while.  Most children who are mildly or severely disabled are born that way, and it does not come as a big surprise to parents that they are disabled or special-needs when they hit "school age".

Many parents of such children already have support measures in place for their children before it comes time to decide on how they are to be educated.  I know I certainly did.  I sought out the support of other people well before school came along.  Ironically enough, the biggest validation, support, and advocacy for me when I decided opt out of the mainstream and do this at home actually CAME FROM my child's special-ed teacher! 

I take her advice and criticism far more seriously than the strangers on the internet here, as she knows me and has worked with my child and myself.  So I have no real desire to "prove anything" here, but I do get benefits from telling my story and recounting some details here.  I even share some posts with my kids, and their reaction is "Huh, how can they think THAT? (to the idea that unschoolers don't "do math", for example).

I have seen alot of stifled and crippled children come out of a public school system that is so underfunded and overcrowded.  I do not feel that there is such a thing as caring too much for your child.  I don't think parents that are ensuring their children get a good education from homeschooling have any other motivation other than doing what is best for their child.  You have to see both sides - to make such a strong statement as parents do not possess the ability to provide all of the children's needs is in my opinion not correct.  If my children needs a Dr. that is different, if they need an educator I feel completely qualified.  I do not homeschool, but nearly everyday that my children come home from their public school, I regret it. 

I discussed your recent show with my 10-year-old daughter.  She quite eloquently named the benefits she feels children receive from the school environment -- the ability to get along with all different types of children with all different levels of interest and learning abilities, who are from all different types of home environments.  (We do happen to live in a very diverse community.)  She also stated that she appreciates meeting adults who are different than I am.  This gives her other adults in her sphere that she trusts and loves, and gives her different perspectives on all kinds of things that will affect her future ability to "make it" in this world full of different kinds of people.  She is learning that I may not always be right, and that she may agree more with her teacher about a political issue, for example.  She is learning how to learn through different teaching styles and teacher's personalities.  (She is learning to cope.)  She is learning about different topics that I may not have thought to brought into her life.  Some of them she has an interest in, and some not so.  But, that's OK, too.  She is learning to decide what she has an interest in, and learning that she must follow through on the other subjects, as well.  My daughter also feels she has learned flexibility.  I feel that is very true and very necessary in life.  She is learning empathy for students who don't come from a loving, supportive home, or from a middle-class home with everything she needs easily provided.  She is learning how to pick her own friends, and how to stay away from that child who annoys you.  As you can see, she is a very creative thinker and very eloquent -- she could go on, but I think you can get the point that there are many things children learn in a school environment that help them cope with our world as it is.

 

My 14-year-old daughter and I did not discuss this topic, but I can tell you how I think she'd respond to this question.  She appreciates the ability to leave the house every school day.  She likes to keep her school day mostly private from me.  She is going through a very normal phase of development -- learning to be her own person, away from me and her father, learning what her interests may be, and how to find her own way in the world.  She then comes home to a safe, warm environment with people who are here for her when she needs us, and who are learning to let go, which seems to be mostly what she needs right now.  Letting our children go is not hard for them -- they yearn for it and will fight for it.  Yes, there will be bumps in their road, but who would want to delay these bumps and life lessons?  It is us parents (mothers, especially) who must take a good, hard look at our own motivation for keeping our children home and who must let our children move through the normal stages of development so that they will be normal, happy, successful adults.   

 

Let me add my own opinion to this --  I could not provide the rich learning environment that my children are acquiring in school.  I could not cover every single subject as well as a whole truck load of teachers do every day for my children and others like them. 

When I was a teacher I had such a hard time motivating the students. I taught middle and high school. So I looked up some ideas on the Internet and found how homeschoolers were self motivated and tried some activities where students could do their own activities and these kids in schools have been so trained to just sit there and get the information then do the minimum to get the grade. It was horrible. I also read how one room schoolhouses had students of all ages and levels together and helping each other. The older students had responsiblities and were not just thrown away in society like teenagers are now. So that turned me to homeschooling. Now my son can follow his interests (we get books at the library on history and do science experiments) and socializes a lot with his friends and in his activities.I got straight As in college in all my education classes yet being a teacher had nothing to do with my training. It is all about managing a classroom of 20 - 30 kids who don't want to be there. The best students are the ones with involved parents. What is more involved than homeschooling? Plus even a parent with a high school degree does better than schools because of the one on one attention. Plus, homeschool parents do network and find out how to teach and there are curriculms to help..

This was your original quote:

 

Homeschoolers do not take advantage of public school, even though their taxes support it, because they believe that for their children there's a better way.  

 

I do not take advantage of the resources, not because I believe there is a better way, it is because I choose not to due to personal past experiences with my district.  Some families in the district where we reside do not take advantage of the resources (in their case band and music lessons) because they were not ALLOWED to. I have posted several references on here about the taxes and my take on how that works in our state, and believe me, I think policy regarding that should be changed ASAP.

 

If I misunderstood you, I am sorry.

 

It most certainly is not the easy way out.  It takes dedication and a willlingness to sometimes change one's entire lifestyle! to homeschool!  I know parents who have relocated, when possible, to move to a different area where their children's needs for freedom and family life will be respected.  Is moving across the country easy?  Is living on one income easy?  I find myself neither deprived, nor hard done by having to live on one income, but it is something that takes thinking and work.  It means that I don't buy all of the latest doo-dads that everyone raves about, etc, so I can afford extras for my kids.

One of the things that has changed for me is that unlike when my children were in school, I am not an evening and weekends and summer holidays parent.  I don't have to write the teachers notes in order to find out "how my kids are doing".  Teachers are allowed to have lives off the school grounds and therefore often took their time to answer notes (likely because other parents had gotten ahead of me).  I don't have to make appointments to talk personally with teachers to find out how my children are doing, either.  I find out directly from my children, all the time, how they are doing.  I get to see them during their most awake, alert, and open minded hours of the day, much like a teacher and the other students had the luxury of doing.

When children come home from school, ANY children, the most oft response to the question, "So what did you do in school today?" is "uh, nothing".  When children come home from school they want to unwind.  They've spent the entire day in "stimulation" and interaction with people and family activities are something they did as an obligatory nod.

Now, they do family activities and chores, and learning, and socializing, willingly!  They enjoy volunteering, working, learning, reading, activities which require math, cooking, budgeting, geography, history.  But I'm unschooling?  How can they learn THAT?  It's in life activities.  They'd have to never get out of bed and never talk to other people in order to never enounter even ONE of the fraction of the examples given above.

This is clearly a hot topic, and I will be back later to read more posts. I just wanted to say before I sign off this morning that I have enjoyed this conversation and learned a lot from all of you. My two teens that I homeschool are happy, well adjusted, and I'm sure will turn out just fine in life. I just hope that whatever choice you make for your children makes them as happy as homeschooling has made mine.

As a public school teacher I have mixed feelings about home schooling. There are success stories for both approaches. I cringe, though, when I read messages from home schooling parents who clearly never learned any gramatical structure in their own schooling. As a math teacher, I know that parents who are comfortable and knowledgable with the math being taught in middle and high school are rare. I wonder where the non-school families expect to encounter higher mathematics during their travels in the "real world", and who is going to prepare their children with the prerequisite skills for using the higher mathematics. One advantage to formal schooling is that the students have the benefit of a variety of teachers, each an expert in his or her specific field of study. There are ineffective teachers in schools everywhere, though. Fortunately, students in our schools do not depend on these teachers for their entire education. I am concerned that the parents who reject any structured education are denying their children exposure to things it would not occur to them to ask their parents about. How could they possibly know they want to learn about something if they have no idea that thing exists? You nver know what will be the thing that stirs a child's interest and begins the path to a lifelong career. It may be nothing you can find in books or on the internet or in worldwide travels. It may be as simple as the personality of one teacher in a public school - or even a classmate in that school. I think of life and learning as a lottery, and I would want to provide my children with as many "lottery tickets" as I could. Socialization is, to me, a big issue. Getting children involved in activities such as sports, scouting, and theater is only one type of socilization. In these activities they are involved with others who have similar interests and a desire to participate. This still is a very limited sphere of experience. In these settings, there is no need to learn the tolerance, understanding, and negotiation skills required to work in harmony with people who do not share your interests or goals. I believe that some parents have the skills to provide an adequate academic education for their children. This includes the skill to recognize their own limitations and find ways to address those issues. I still believe that, though they may receive the best possible home schooling, they are denied some of the positive influences of public schooling. This may, for them, make little difference. I believe that more and more people, seeing the successes, think they can accomplish the same level of success. Unfortunately, I don't believe that most parents are adequately prepared to be the sole providers of education for their children. I am most concerned about the effects of the "non-school" strategy. The most successful home-schoolers have set courses of study and structured "school" time. This makes it more likely that the student will be exposed to learning about things beyond their own expressed interests.I believe that it is a mistake to condemn any type of instruction. I suppose my biggest worry is that people espousing one form or another will completely close their minds to any possible negative aspects. The fact that there are negative aspects should be used to find ways to eliminate or minimize them. You have to acknowledge the problems before you can correct them. There is not a very big spotlight shown on home schooling and non-schooling so the problem issues are not as visible. Home and non-schoolers need actively to serach for problems and manage solutions. This won't happen if they won't accept that the problems exist.

This is exactly my point! An educated teacher can never be replaced by a parent. ;) Kudos to you for being what our children really need.

 

Michelle

 I live in North Carolina and my problem with the National School Systems as well as my State School System is that : The teachers Union and other influences from the teachers as well as Administrators have an agenda that they teach. If they just taught Reading, Writing, History, and Arithmetic in stead of agenda driven teachings of  Homosexuality, Sex, Evolution and Political agendas as well as degrading Jesus and prayer taken out of the school. The violence alone is not the issue. Home school families in North Carolina have to send in ,and; also take tests and past the Board of Education requirements. When you can teach your children at home Values, Morals, Math ,History,Writing skills,Reading, and Arithmetic and Jesus Christ as well as keep them from the Violence then its all well worth it... As long as the Public School Systems continue to teach their agenda to our kids the Charter Schools, Private Schools, and Home Schools will continue to grow.......Look at College and the Agenda driven Professors. and these are the students that will make the future decisions of you and me.. Its not about the kids.The Public School System wants  to tech its  agenda and moving it forward  to keep their jobs or political belief.