Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

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Created on : Friday, November 17, 2006, 12:57:50 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Parents want the best for their children, but what’s the best way to educate them? Dr. Phil’s guests face off in a debate about whether to school, homeschool or unschool. Dana and her husband, Joe, call themselves radical unschoolers. They say education happens as a side effect of life, and they don’t believe in tests, curriculums or grades. Are their three kids learning what they need to know? Then, RaeAnn says public schools are death traps and wants to homeschool her children. Her husband, Steve, says their kids are safer at school than they are at home. Can this couple reach a compromise? Plus, Nicole feels like an outcast at 26. She says she hated being homeschooled, and couldn’t relate to other kids. Share your thoughts here.

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November 24, 2006, 2:17 pm PST

Been there

Quote From: luvmykidstwo

I just have to make a comment regarding the 26 year old who says she was socially retarded because of homeschooling and that she feels like an outcast. Feeling like an outcast happens all the time in public school. If you're not part of the in crowd or the popular crowd or just a little different, kids can be really cruel. I went to public school in New York and Florida and had two totally different experiences. My experience in New York was great, I was involved in many different activites and very outgoing up until 7th grade, when my family moved to Florida. First, I became very bored because we were learning things I had already learned in 5th grade. Then, most of the kids were just mean. I was picked on and called names and was an outcast from the in crowd. Because of all the teasing I became very shy and struggle with that today. I have trouble letting people in, because I feel I won't be accepted for who I am. Because of my experience I have chosen to homeschool my kids and have been doing it for 8 years. I am not against public schools at all, but there are good school districts and not so good school districts. I happen to live in the same school district I went to in Florida and I believe it is not good. If we lived someplace where the schools were good, then I would send my kids to school if they chose to go. I have a 13 year old and almost 9 year old. My 13 year old is traditionally homeschooled and just does not like school at all. It wouldn't matter if he were in school, because I know he would dislike it even more. He is a very hands on learner. On the other hand my daughter loves school and I have her enrolled in one of the virtual public schools and has been since the pilot 4 years ago and she loves it. She has asked about going to public school and I would send her if she wanted to try it. Both kids have a wide range of friends and are exposed to all ages, races and religions and do not have a problem getting along with anyone. So the whole socialization thing is probably the easiet thing for people to pick on about homeschoolers, unscoolers, etc.  The main thing about my kids is that they are kind. They don't judge others by the way they look, if they are heavy, orhandicapped in some way or different races or religions. They treat everyone with kindness. And if someone doesn't like them for whatever reason, they move on and know that it is not a reflection on who they are. There is so much more that I could say on this subject, but I will stop here, otherwise I could write a book lol.

I have to agree...I went to a regular school preschool and kindergarten in New Jersey...then we moved to Texas and i went to a regular school first through 4th before I was homeschooled 5th through 8th, then back to regular school for  high school.

My experience in New Jersey was great.  I had tons of friends and things went pretty well.  Maybe it was because it was such a young age, I haven't a clue.  When I moved to Texas, it was totally different.  Everybody had their own groups (already) and I was the new-kid from some place they couldn't even imagine.  Disregarding any faults or flaws or strengths or talents anyone has personally or physically, I was outcasted almost immediately.  I only had about 3 friends that I can think of.  Because of learning disabilities I was home schooled from 5th to 8th grade.  I made improvements (leaps, my mother has told me), so by 8th grade I asked to go back to regular school for high school.  I went.  Not too much had changed to be honest.  However, I did make friends with several teachers, and there's a few people from my high school class I still consider either aquaintances or friends.  And  I did learn a lot, however, with what I've seen, I have to say most homeschoolers aren't missing too much--and the homeschoolers I know (and they are many) are doing VERY VERY well.  Both socially and academically. 

I think it depends on the person, the parents, where you are, and what's available to you.   Where I live there are a lot of opportunties for homeschooling parents. 
 
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November 24, 2006, 2:18 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: msteacher

I teach in a middle school in san antonio, and I absolutely love my job! I feel that a public school education is emperitive for every child in order to ensure that the proper cirriculum is being taught and taught thoroughly. Parents aren't trained in the psychology of teaching or in what cirriculum is necessary to teach! Let me ask this... home school parents... are you willing to give your child a zero on an assignment if it's not done to teach them responsibility or will you just give in to ensure that your son or daughter makes the grade! Your job is to be a parent and teach morals and values... NOT TEACH CIRRICULUM! Leave it to the professionals please! Otherwise you are infact cheating your children on a good WELLROUNDED education. Don't hold your kids hostage please!
You mean curricullum? Heck, I agree. That's why I unschool my kids. Why on earth would I want to narrow their view of something to a limited curricullum when there's a whole world to explore?
 
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November 24, 2006, 2:19 pm PST

The Real Issue Isn't Home Schooling

Today's topic is something about home schooling, yet no one seems to be addressing the fact that these parents that have been on for the last 20 minutes are letting their children run the household! Not having any children myself, I have to question...is this a NORMAL thing today?? When I was a kid, I went to bed when I was told...I ate what was put on my plate at dinner time...and I was off the baby bottle WELL before the age of 5!!!
Clips of this couple turning their children into rip roaring brats have been playing throughout the entire episode thus far, but everyone keeps chattering on about home schooling! No wonder kids these days are turning into a bunch of disrespectful thugs..
 
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November 24, 2006, 2:20 pm PST

education

Children do deserve the best education.  As far as the "nonschooling" couple, there are schools in which instill all the aspects of learning that they are trying to provide for their children.  It's called Studio-Based learning.  This is completely student-centered education, where the students construct their own knowledge.  The teacher acts as the facilitator and simply helps to guide the students to their own understanding.  It's hands on, and the students learn through experience.  It's based on the ideas of John Dewey, as well as constructivism.  It is a non-threatning environment and promotes intrinsic motivation.  It's up to the parents to do their research and see what they think is best for their children.  I'm a public school educator, but I feel that the ideas behind nonschooling are not bad, but in order for learning to take place, the parents must be knowledgeable themselves and know what they're doing.  One woman in the audience today claimed that nonschooling was a threat to her future because it would cause people in the work field to be uneducated.  I completely disagree with this simply because a person who is not qualified or knowledgeable in a specific work field will not be hired to begin with. 
 
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November 24, 2006, 2:21 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: shousegirl2003

I'm a teacher in the public school system and I fully support it!! I also understand that it is not perfect, but nothing is. Teachers under go tons of training in order to be able to teach. We have to have a master's degree in education and are always learning new ways of teaching.

 

 I believe that parents who choose to home school firmly believe that they are doing what is best for their child; however, they are cheating their children out of valuable life lessons. Yes, they will be exposed to bullying, yes they will be exposed to children out back sneaking a smoke, and they will have to learn something they don't have much interest in. They need to know how to react to all of these things and much more. The parent's and teacher's job is to teach them to make good choices when in these positions, but  ultimately it's up to your child to decide. If they aren't making good life choices in high school and middle school where there is still some adult supervision then they will be faced with making these life choices once they are out of the house and on their own.

 

My question to a home schooler or unschooler is - if your child was sick and needed medical care would you self medicate or take them to a trained professional? There are alot of of resources out there to help you choose the best way to treat the problem, but most parents would choose to take their child to a medical professional. Why would your child's education be any different?

I'm sorry but you can not compare one analogy to another. ALL LIFE LESSONS ARE NOT LEARNED IN SCHOOL!! I do home school, and have done so for 8 years. Can you tell me what life lessons my children are being cheated out of? As a parent, it is my job to teach my child to make good and right choices. What if I don't agree with your choices that you may teach my child? Am I to turn them over to other adults (I'm mainly referring to younger/middle schooled chidren)? I don't feel that's a teachers responsibility. They are there to teach academics.

 

Besides that, I do have several family members and friends who are teachers. They are teaching in some of the best schools in our area and they tell me on a regular basis they would choose homeschooling over traditional schooling if they still had/when they have children. I'm happy that your experience with children has been good but please have an open mind when it comes to comparing what it right for every chiild. It's not a black or white issue and should not be made as such.

 
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November 24, 2006, 2:22 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

One more thing about public school... what is the point? It seems that the kids are never in school. When I was younger we rarely had days off from school. My two older girls have at least, at least two days off every month! And these are months that contain no holidays! They get the day off so teachers can have parent-techer conferences! Uh, when I was young, we never had the day off, teachers had the meetings at night!  Most of the time I don't feel like the teachers care about the students at all, they just care about their union job.  Are two older daughters are in public school because of money, but the baby will be attending the neighborhood  Catholic school.
 
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November 24, 2006, 2:23 pm PST

Grading the kids

Quote From: msteacher

I teach in a middle school in san antonio, and I absolutely love my job! I feel that a public school education is emperitive for every child in order to ensure that the proper cirriculum is being taught and taught thoroughly. Parents aren't trained in the psychology of teaching or in what cirriculum is necessary to teach! Let me ask this... home school parents... are you willing to give your child a zero on an assignment if it's not done to teach them responsibility or will you just give in to ensure that your son or daughter makes the grade! Your job is to be a parent and teach morals and values... NOT TEACH CIRRICULUM! Leave it to the professionals please! Otherwise you are infact cheating your children on a good WELLROUNDED education. Don't hold your kids hostage please!
My kids do not have the chance to NOT have something done. They know the consequences of no TV, no video games, and no computer if their work is not done. They do get docked 5 points off if they come to the table without their work complete or a good reason written beside the problem like "Can we do this again? I didn't get it the first time." The computer program we use has a grading component already, so the computer program counts as 2/3 of their grade and the table school counts as 1/3. They earn their grades in our house.
 
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November 24, 2006, 2:23 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

luvmykidstwo wrote:
I just have to make a comment regarding the 26 year old who says she was socially retarded because of homeschooling and that she feels like an outcast. Feeling like an outcast happens all the time in public school. If you're not part of the in crowd or the popular crowd or just a little different, kids can be really cruel.

---
(Disclaimer, I am not one of those people who believes all public schools are "bad", I am just recounting this experience relating to the comment I quoted above.  Circumstances like this do happen.  Many of my friends and relatives and their children are in the public school system and I would NEVER presume to disrespect their choices)

Indeed, that was my own experience as well.  It was an atmosphere that really was a waste of time.  Instead of focusing on my studies I spent a large portion of my "socialization" with the other children pretty much apologizing for being different, sucking up to avoid getting bullied more, or plotting a course to avoid those who didn't buy my sucking up tactics to begin with.
Popular kids who stole my things and then insisted to the teacher that they did not got believed and I got accused of "making trouble".

The tests I got As in at school were EASY compared to the tests that the other "peers" gave me on a daily basis.  It was tough. 

People seem to insist that "that is what the real world is like", but having been out of school for more than 20 years, and out in many facets of the real world for that long, I must say, I have never encountered an atmosphere such as that ever.  And we go to a LOT of different things!

Perhaps it is because in the real world, when someone is harassed and their skirt is lifted up and their pants are pulled down, there is legal recourse they can take. 

Perhaps it is because if I go up to my co-workers with a bottle of ketchup or red nail polish and proceed to stain their expensive clothes with it, I am likely to be fired for disrupting the working atmosphere and have to pay for new clothes for my co-worker.

Perhaps it is because in the real world, nobody cares what the label on my clothes say, and nobody cares whether or not I am listening to the fad blonde singer du jour or not...

I don't know, but what I learned in school and what I learned in the real world are two different things.  In the real world, actions have consequences and I'm expected to behave like a human being.

 
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November 24, 2006, 2:25 pm PST

I support homeschooling

Hi I am a stay  home mom who home schools. I have 2 children ages 4 & 6. My oldest is in grade one. I think homeschooling is a great opportunity for both. We are partly aligned to the school system  but I choose the curriculum. I have a set time for school during the day. My daughter is already reading  and spelling at a grade 2 level. We have a weekly spelling and math test so we both know how she is doing. I do not agree with the unschooling method. I think that kids do need to be prepared to face the real world, test deadlines and following instructions are a part of that. I also think that my children are better socialized then alot of public school kids. They are learning to deal with people and children if all ages. They can play with kids their own age, younger or older. They also are learning to be around a variety of adults and how to interact with them.                                                  Bree79
 
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November 24, 2006, 2:29 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: brync36

Today's topic is something about home schooling, yet no one seems to be addressing the fact that these parents that have been on for the last 20 minutes are letting their children run the household! Not having any children myself, I have to question...is this a NORMAL thing today?? When I was a kid, I went to bed when I was told...I ate what was put on my plate at dinner time...and I was off the baby bottle WELL before the age of 5!!!
Clips of this couple turning their children into rip roaring brats have been playing throughout the entire episode thus far, but everyone keeps chattering on about home schooling! No wonder kids these days are turning into a bunch of disrespectful thugs..
This couple doesn't remotely resemble most homeschooling families. That's why the majority of homeschoolers on this board are so upset. It seems Dr. Phil choose the most negative family he could find to represent homeschoolers.
 

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