Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

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Created on : Friday, November 17, 2006, 12:57:50 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Parents want the best for their children, but what’s the best way to educate them? Dr. Phil’s guests face off in a debate about whether to school, homeschool or unschool. Dana and her husband, Joe, call themselves radical unschoolers. They say education happens as a side effect of life, and they don’t believe in tests, curriculums or grades. Are their three kids learning what they need to know? Then, RaeAnn says public schools are death traps and wants to homeschool her children. Her husband, Steve, says their kids are safer at school than they are at home. Can this couple reach a compromise? Plus, Nicole feels like an outcast at 26. She says she hated being homeschooled, and couldn’t relate to other kids. Share your thoughts here.

Find out what happened on the show.

More November 2006 Show Boards.


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November 24, 2006, 2:39 pm PST

Which Studies?

What studies is Dr. Phil referrring to that say homeschooling is no longer a mentally healthy option for middle schoolers on up?  I've never even heard of this.

 

 
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November 24, 2006, 2:39 pm PST

Getting what you want vs. spoiled

Quote From: brync36

Today's topic is something about home schooling, yet no one seems to be addressing the fact that these parents that have been on for the last 20 minutes are letting their children run the household! Not having any children myself, I have to question...is this a NORMAL thing today?? When I was a kid, I went to bed when I was told...I ate what was put on my plate at dinner time...and I was off the baby bottle WELL before the age of 5!!!
Clips of this couple turning their children into rip roaring brats have been playing throughout the entire episode thus far, but everyone keeps chattering on about home schooling! No wonder kids these days are turning into a bunch of disrespectful thugs..
It is unclear to me wheather (is that the right spelling for the correct word, if you know what I mean?) you are saying that homeschooling produces "disrespectful thugs" or a new generation of parenting does--either way, most  kids go to school, therfore most of these disrespectful thugs that you are writing about are in school, not out.

In my personal experience: I have always been given quite a lot of choices--I could stay up until two and eat ice cream for breakfast. I've done both a couple of times, but right now I prefer to fall asleep early, so I can get up rested for work and sugar in the morning gives me stomach aches :) The point is, being "spoiled" or "feeling intitled" has little to do with giving children things and love and allowing them an equal say in the way the house is run. Children deserve love and lots of other things, but they are not spoiled until they feel as though they are intitled to things more than anyone else.


 
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November 24, 2006, 2:40 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: alasandra2003

This couple doesn't remotely resemble most homeschooling families. That's why the majority of homeschoolers on this board are so upset. It seems Dr. Phil choose the most negative family he could find to represent homeschoolers.

That family portrayed as radical unschoolers was a wonderful portrayal of respectful parenting where trust and freedom are principles to live by, not rules and punishment.

 

My kids have decided since toddlerhood what to eat, when to eat, when to go to bed, what to wear; they've had unlimited TV and computer time, and they are the most self-regulated kids I know.  The TV hardly gets turned on.  Right  now they're on a Neopets jag, but they're learning so much from that.  They'll break away to go riding, skateboarding, or to play with and care for our dogs.

 

They clean the house without prompting (usually), there are no arguments.

 

And you know what?  You reap what you sow.  If you sow respect and trust, your kids will respect and trust you.  How cool is that?

 

Last year our family went through a rough patch that forced me to work 80 hours a week.  I had to sleep during the day some days, because I worked nights.  And I'd wake up to find that the kids had cleaned the entire house some days, dishes and all, because they wanted to.  Because they knew it would be helpful.  Because I help them when they need it.

 

My son nursed 'til he was almost 4.  So what?  He needed the closeness and the comfort.  A 4 year old, in the grand scheme of things, is still a baby.

 

I'm glad they chose radical unschoolers over rigid school-at-home-ers.  Absolutely wonderful.

 
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November 24, 2006, 2:41 pm PST

schooling children

 I have completed schooling my children but I have not completed educating them. I have used public school and home school. The MOST important thing for parents to realize is to get involved in their life and their school life. You also must know your own limits as far as teaching your children. Our youngest daughter was home schooled for 3 years because she was not learning in public school. We had nothing to loose by home schooling. She excelled and re-enter public school at grade 7 and was way ahead of the standard grade 7 student. Our other children used public school right through and did excellent. We were involved in every grade and knew every teacher. Like I say get involved. You only have one shot at raising a child.
jimcar
 
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November 24, 2006, 2:42 pm PST

self medicate

Quote From: shousegirl2003

I'm a teacher in the public school system and I fully support it!! I also understand that it is not perfect, but nothing is. Teachers under go tons of training in order to be able to teach. We have to have a master's degree in education and are always learning new ways of teaching.

 

 I believe that parents who choose to home school firmly believe that they are doing what is best for their child; however, they are cheating their children out of valuable life lessons. Yes, they will be exposed to bullying, yes they will be exposed to children out back sneaking a smoke, and they will have to learn something they don't have much interest in. They need to know how to react to all of these things and much more. The parent's and teacher's job is to teach them to make good choices when in these positions, but  ultimately it's up to your child to decide. If they aren't making good life choices in high school and middle school where there is still some adult supervision then they will be faced with making these life choices once they are out of the house and on their own.

 

My question to a home schooler or unschooler is - if your child was sick and needed medical care would you self medicate or take them to a trained professional? There are alot of of resources out there to help you choose the best way to treat the problem, but most parents would choose to take their child to a medical professional. Why would your child's education be any different?

 

 

You may  be naive in believing that all parents of homeschoolers are uneducated persons.

We are qualified to teach our children. Even if we weren't  educated past a high school level(but most of us have been), we would still be qualified to teach our children. It isn't too difficult to teach someone what you have already learned.   If however, a parent has difficulty teaching a particular subject to their homeschooled child, the homeschool group that we are members of, does consist of  educated people who can tutor.

 

So to answer your question, it would be like a mom who cares for her own child which has a cold or the flu, or a cut on the knee. Mom can do that without taking the child to a physician. However, if the child has something the mom is not familiar with, she would take her child to see a physicain.

 

 
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November 24, 2006, 2:43 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: amarie13

I am 18 years old, recently graduated from high school, and currently in college working on a double major and double minor. I was traditionally schooled my entire life in both private and public schools, and hated every minute of it up until this year, when I went to college. I agreed with a lot of the "philosophy" of the parents who wanted to unschool their children, especially in their belief that children are the most unheard and "discriminated against" people in our society today. I have felt silenced by the school systems since I entered them -- teachers don't listen to their students' opinions, advisors hardly hear students' problems, administrators seem to care so very little about the actual well-being of the kids in their care. I felt like a statistic my whole life, and especially felt like there was so much information and subject matter being crammed down my throat -- most of it unimportant, uninfluential, and long since forgotten.

 

That being said, I also look back and appreciate it. The traditional school provided me with insights and experiences I never would have encountered had I been homeschooled or "unschooled. " I believe that there can be "unschooling" while a child is being schooled traditionally. My parents never restricted me, never stifled my creativity or imagination, never silenced me, never ignored or shot down my opinions, and generally let me make my own decisions and my own mistakes. I learned to be a free thinker with specific morals because my parents were "unschooling" me on the weekends, while I learned to deal with rigidity, conflict, ignorance, and intolerance during the weeks in traditional schools. My family constantly went on weekend trips, went to museums, studied things, and did all the "hands-on" learning that unschoolers hope to achieve, while still allowing me the benefits of traditional schools.

 

The biggest problem with education is that people take things to the extreme. Why must it be either all school or no school at all? Why can't parents put thier children in the educational system and still monitor them, nurture them, and enhance their person? I don't understand why it has to be one of the other -- I hated school for many reasons, but I recognize the value and the benefits of it and I am grateful my parents put me through it. At the same time, I recognize that my parents put in the extra 300% to ensure I became an individual who is both traditionally educated and independent of "the system," and who is not entirely dependent on them or anyone else to make my decisions or be hanging over my shoulder. Balance is the key, not extremity.

I keep hearing about balance and not being extreme. Once takes a look at how children learn and the history of learning and education it's not hard to see what an extreme and unbalanced idea systematic school is. It's only because it's normal that we assume it's balanced.
 
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November 24, 2006, 2:43 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: heyvicky

  I am a 9th grade student and I don't believe in homeschooling or unschooling. As a student in a public school I think that being homeschooled would take away all the experiences that kids get to have in a public school like going to homecoming or prom or having a crush on a boy in your spanish class. I agree I don't always like school but I wouldn't want to be home with my parents ALL DAY LONG. Homeschooled kids won't be able to enjoy being a senior and having senioritis or that graduation day that all kids can't wait for. The church I attend is a major homeschool supporter and I understand that schools are trying to take God out of school and thats mainly why my church homeschools. When those kids get older they won't know how to handle people that are opposed to God. I also don't understand how almost just anyone can teach their kids. For example, my aunt homeschools her kids and she has up to a seventh grade education and she does not have her GED. I don't understand how that is legal. In a public school parents get fined if their kids stay home from school one to many days and yet unschoolers just allow their kids home all the time. Also in this day and age in order to even get a job you need a highschool education or your GED. Those kids who arent even schooled most likely won't get a job. Also more and more places require some kind of college degree. Some of these parents are just ignorant because what kid is actually going to CHOOSE on their own to go to school? Not many. Plus kids' brains are not even done developing so how are they going to choose wether or not they want to go to school. 

I went to public school. Nobody asked me to homecoming or prom. So I sat at home.

 

Your post shows how little you know about homeschooling. Many homeschooling groups have proms and graduations for their members. And my children certainly don't sit home with me all day long (how boring) we go on field trips with our homeschooling group, they play soccer on recreational teams (the team is even co-ed), they attended cub scouts and boy scouts when they were younger.

 

Also not all homeschoolers are Christians. We belong to an inclusive homeschool group that is made up of Free Thinking Christians, Pagans, & Atheist. There may be some other religions/beliefs represented but as we don't ask people what religion they are/what they believe I don't know for sure.

 

You are right about kids needing a college degree. Most homeschoolers intend for their children to go to college. My son took the ACT when he was 15, he scored a 28 which made him eligible for early admission to college. He started college at 16 he is in his second year of college, works after school and made the Dean's list. He also has a scholarship.

 

You may also be interested to know that Eragon was written by a homeschooler when he was 15, it will be released as a movie December 15th http://www.eragonmovie.com/

 
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November 24, 2006, 2:44 pm PST

MS mom of 2 public schooled children

Quote From: calliesmom327

I am a Second Grade teacher in MS.  I attended public school from first grade until graduation.  I turned out okay.  I see students everyday with a limited experience background, so in my classroom I work to give them every opportunity that I can that they might not experience at home.  There is nothing wrong with public school!  I am surprised that someone would not want their child to have every experience that they can have.  My daughter Callie, 3, attends a preschool at the high school in the city where I teach.  Up until this year she stayed at home with her grandmother.  My husband and I decided that she needed to be with other children before she started Kindergarten.  She LOVES it!!  She is safe and protected by her teachers, so I am never worried about her.  She started in August and has already had so many experiences.  There is NOTHING wrong with public school.

I also live in MS; and my 2 oldest  children went to a "mother's-day-out" at a church b4 entering a child care program at 3 years old at our high school.  The program is an occupational class for high schoolers where they "work" in a day care setting.  I know how my children loved it.  We can be out and about in the community and still have some of those high schoolers recognize my children and talk with them and see how they have been and how they are doing in school.  We wanted our children to be around others their age and other adults as well; to learn how to trust those adults.  I agree that our public schools in my county are great.  It may not be that way in other parts of the country.

 
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November 24, 2006, 2:44 pm PST

I doubt that would happen

Quote From: ltsocats

Some parents do just fine home schooling their children but it is not for eveyone.  Do we want crack mother's home schooling.  These children will be adults with no hope at all.  At least if they go to traditional school they have a small chance to make something of themselves.  The point on the show was that some of the schools are to dangerous for the children.  The schools that are to dangerous are in dangerous neighbhoods and home schooling is not going to make a difference.  There is still going to be drugs, guns and gangs there.
 

Most "crack" mothers, as you put it, would not bother to home school their kids because they would rather have them out of their hair all day. Be at rest.....the parents who are educating their kids at home are not "crack" mothers.

We are educated people who want what is best for our children. There are also other ways to home school, as someone said on the show, than just unschooling.  


 

My kids have a structured environment with curriculum, tests, quizzes, after school activities with other kids (both home schooled and public schooled), and have fun on top of that. My children are taught from books that have weekly lessons. They start the day (8:30 AM) with me teaching their lesson [with use of a dry erase board for examples], then they work on vocabulary words, reading their lesson for the day, answering written questions about the lesson learned for the day, writing essays, doing art, playing music, and having PE. I grade their work using my own brain AND a teacher guide. Then we go over what they missed the next day in class and they spend Friday studying for and taking weekly quizzes or quarterly tests. I do nothing no other Public Schooled teacher would not do. Public Schooled teachers have use of teacher books with lesson plans and answers (guess they don't know everything either) and they teach their kids no differently than I do. I graduated Public School....I do remember how they taught the kids. 


 

We also discipline our children, teach values and social skills, and give them a reality check when they need it....I am nothing like the parent on this show today. For instance, my 14 year old asked if she could play the violin again. I reminded her that we spent big bucks of private lessons and a violin for her two years ago in (when she was in public school) and she blew it off. She stated, “yeah, I just got tired of it one day and was sick another.” I said to her, “ In the real world...you can't just get tired of work and blow it off; you would be penniless if you did that.” 


 

Look, I do not have to defend myself or our lives to anyone....we are doing nothing illegal and our kids are doing great. I am not against public school (my child was in public school for a long while) I just do not like our district, have one child with an Autism disability who was getting ZERO help from special ed, and just became so fed up with the area schools that I felt it was better to home school. We own our home and my husband has had the same job for 11 years....we just could not pick up and leave. Unless you have been in my shoes....you will never understand.  

 

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November 24, 2006, 2:47 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: syddale

We are lucky here in Canada. The public schools, especially in Alberta, are superior to most of the schools in the U.S. Although some parents choose to home school or use private schools, the public schools fare as well and much better in many districts as the private ones. Private or home schooling is a personal choice and the reasons for such a choice run the gamut. Personally, we have no need to home school. I could not achieve the wonderful results with my childrens education that our wonderful school system is achieving. My cousin in Hawaii will have to pay through the nose for private tuition to educate his three children.

I'm glad you have good schools in Alberta... unfortunately that's not the case across the country.  There are two elementary schools in my area that I would consider sending my child to.  Both would require us moving 30 minutes from town.  There is one junior high that I would consider a good choice.  As for high school, well, there is only one and it's overcrowded and outdated.  We're choosing homeschool BECAUSE of the public school system.

 

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