Message Boards

Home Message Boards

Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

Number of Replies: 4215
New Messages This Week: 0
Last Reply On:
Created on : Friday, November 17, 2006, 12:57:50 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Parents want the best for their children, but what’s the best way to educate them? Dr. Phil’s guests face off in a debate about whether to school, homeschool or unschool. Dana and her husband, Joe, call themselves radical unschoolers. They say education happens as a side effect of life, and they don’t believe in tests, curriculums or grades. Are their three kids learning what they need to know? Then, RaeAnn says public schools are death traps and wants to homeschool her children. Her husband, Steve, says their kids are safer at school than they are at home. Can this couple reach a compromise? Plus, Nicole feels like an outcast at 26. She says she hated being homeschooled, and couldn’t relate to other kids. Share your thoughts here.

Find out what happened on the show.

More November 2006 Show Boards.
As of January, 2009, this message board will become "Read Only" and will be closed to further posting. Please join the NEW Dr. Phil Community to continue your discussions, personalize your message board experience, start a blog and meet new friends.

 
sneakers145
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
November 24, 2006, 2:48 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: rubyred5698

I am 16 years old and find a lot of Dr. Phil's shows interesting. Today's show; however, made me extremely angry. Now, I agree that no school would be really cool, but I also think it's the stupidest idea I've ever heard of. Kid's should not have the option of choosing school or no school. Us kids are no where near being responsible enough to have such choices.

 

When Dana said that children should be created equal to adults when it comes to making choices, I found this to be a ridiculous arguement. I believe that sometimes a kid should have the right to make choices, but they shouldn't have the choice between no school and school. School provides kids structure. It helps them make choices in life. If a kid doesn't go to school, they probably should start practicing saying "Do you want fries with that?"

 

Another arguement of Dana's was that her kids will be able to get a good job. Well, pardon my french, but that is complete bull. No respectable company would give a job to someone who didn't go to school. Dana and her husband aren't helping their kids, they're destroying the kids' futures.

 

Finally, Joe said his school experience sucked. Well, that's his fault. He should have pushed himself to do better. It isn't the school's fault that he got C's. If he had taken the time to study or get some outside help, he probably wouldn't have gotten horrible grades. I am a junior in highschool right now, and I've had my share of bad grades, but that's because I didn't put the time in to get better grades. Sure, school is a huge stress factor, but it still is EXTREMELY helpful.

 

Dana and Joe need to put their kids in school. Otherwise, their kids' future will be horrible. They won't have a good job, and they won't make a lot of money. Watching this show made me realize that although I hate school sometimes, in reality, it is a good thing. I am glad my parents aren't into the "no-school" thing. If they were, I know that my future will not be good. I won't get into college, I'd probably end up working at McDonalds, and I won't be able to provide for a family. So, "Dana and Joe, get a clue!!!"

 

 

My kids have made their own decisions their whole lives.  In fact, I'd rather they make mistakes in choices while they're young and at home than when they're grown and gone and only then making decisions.  They're learning how to make good decisions because they make them every day.

 

I agree with Dayna that children are our most disrespected segment of society.  But what happens when you give a child responsibility and trust is truly amazing -- they rise to the occasion.  Were you aware that there are some unschooling schools where the kids not only hire and fire their teachers, but they vote on the budget, make and enforce the school rules, etc?  And with nearly 40 years of success, I think the unschooling movement at home will fare just as well, if not better, because of the closeness of the family unit.

 

I'd rather my kids be independent thinkers than mindless drones going through the motions someone else has prescribed for them.  And they're thriving, not only 'academically' (I use that term loosely as we have no formal studies) but emotionally as well.  And they're self-motivated.

 

So like the recent poster who unschooled during high school who went on to form her own production company, I'm sure my kids will be equally successful pursuing their passions.
 
Read Replies to this Message
cherylar
User Mood
Good

Message Emote
blank
November 24, 2006, 2:49 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: annelizabeth

I have to admit, I thought the same thing as I viewed that couple's unruly brood.  Without self-discipline, not only will they fail to learn, they will fail to hold down a job.  It's a good thing their father is self-employed.  Although he may not like their habits much if he chooses to employ them some day.

I was disapointed that Dr. Phil only showcased the extemes of unschooling and public schools, leaving out the structured and well supervised home schooling in the middle.

All children need discipline, guidance and rules, unlike the parents today who were totally unwilling to provide aby of that. It is much harder to say no and be parents than it is to let  your kids go and try to be their freinds. This couple reminded me a commune, 70's era style that refuses to grow up and join the real world.  I believe in  structured and supervised home-schooling, not just letting it hang loose and anything goes. I also believe many American public schools are given far too much credit than what they deserve when we compare our children's education against the Asians and Europeans. Focusing on grades and teaching to the test are not the way to a good education, but neither is letting chidlren choose what they want to learn.

How many children choose to learn about ancient history or war on their own? How many children choose to learn about economics or English?
 
Read Replies to this Message
cmkennedy124
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
November 24, 2006, 2:49 pm PST

You are right

Quote From: rubyred5698

I am 16 years old and find a lot of Dr. Phil's shows interesting. Today's show; however, made me extremely angry. Now, I agree that no school would be really cool, but I also think it's the stupidest idea I've ever heard of. Kid's should not have the option of choosing school or no school. Us kids are no where near being responsible enough to have such choices.

 

When Dana said that children should be created equal to adults when it comes to making choices, I found this to be a ridiculous arguement. I believe that sometimes a kid should have the right to make choices, but they shouldn't have the choice between no school and school. School provides kids structure. It helps them make choices in life. If a kid doesn't go to school, they probably should start practicing saying "Do you want fries with that?"

 

Another arguement of Dana's was that her kids will be able to get a good job. Well, pardon my french, but that is complete bull. No respectable company would give a job to someone who didn't go to school. Dana and her husband aren't helping their kids, they're destroying the kids' futures.

 

Finally, Joe said his school experience sucked. Well, that's his fault. He should have pushed himself to do better. It isn't the school's fault that he got C's. If he had taken the time to study or get some outside help, he probably wouldn't have gotten horrible grades. I am a junior in highschool right now, and I've had my share of bad grades, but that's because I didn't put the time in to get better grades. Sure, school is a huge stress factor, but it still is EXTREMELY helpful.

 

Dana and Joe need to put their kids in school. Otherwise, their kids' future will be horrible. They won't have a good job, and they won't make a lot of money. Watching this show made me realize that although I hate school sometimes, in reality, it is a good thing. I am glad my parents aren't into the "no-school" thing. If they were, I know that my future will not be good. I won't get into college, I'd probably end up working at McDonalds, and I won't be able to provide for a family. So, "Dana and Joe, get a clue!!!"

 

 

 I liked your post! I've toldf my 14 year old "practice saying 'Do you want fries with that?' because you will be saying that if you don't do your studies". I home school with books (see my other posts) but, this woman was to much! I feel sorry for her kids.
 
Read Replies to this Message
mom930
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
November 24, 2006, 2:50 pm PST

What about the real world...outside the home?

I personally feel that traditional schooling is the best way for children to get a good education.  No, it's not a perfect system, but I feel that it is the best way for children to become aware of the world around them.  Socially, I think that homeschooling is not a great choice for kids.  Yes, parents can take their children to events and clubs, but most of those are things that interest the child.  What about those people in the world that are not like you?  How are you going to learn how to develp the skills needed to get along with other people.  I have never heard of unschooling until today.  My question is this...unless you are your own boss someday, how are you going to ever be happy working at a job where someone is telling you what to do?  The other complaint that I have are homeschooling parents who want to get their kids involved in sports affiliated with a middle or high school eventhough their kids don't attend those schools.  In my opinion, if they can't go to school with those kids, they can't play sports with them.  I am a public school teacher, so maybe I am a little bias.  I think one thing that would help our schools today is parental support and involvement. 
 
Read Replies to this Message
roundandround
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
November 24, 2006, 2:52 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: rubyred5698

I am 16 years old and find a lot of Dr. Phil's shows interesting. Today's show; however, made me extremely angry. Now, I agree that no school would be really cool, but I also think it's the stupidest idea I've ever heard of. Kid's should not have the option of choosing school or no school. Us kids are no where near being responsible enough to have such choices.

 

When Dana said that children should be created equal to adults when it comes to making choices, I found this to be a ridiculous arguement. I believe that sometimes a kid should have the right to make choices, but they shouldn't have the choice between no school and school. School provides kids structure. It helps them make choices in life. If a kid doesn't go to school, they probably should start practicing saying "Do you want fries with that?"

 

Another arguement of Dana's was that her kids will be able to get a good job. Well, pardon my french, but that is complete bull. No respectable company would give a job to someone who didn't go to school. Dana and her husband aren't helping their kids, they're destroying the kids' futures.

 

Finally, Joe said his school experience sucked. Well, that's his fault. He should have pushed himself to do better. It isn't the school's fault that he got C's. If he had taken the time to study or get some outside help, he probably wouldn't have gotten horrible grades. I am a junior in highschool right now, and I've had my share of bad grades, but that's because I didn't put the time in to get better grades. Sure, school is a huge stress factor, but it still is EXTREMELY helpful.

 

Dana and Joe need to put their kids in school. Otherwise, their kids' future will be horrible. They won't have a good job, and they won't make a lot of money. Watching this show made me realize that although I hate school sometimes, in reality, it is a good thing. I am glad my parents aren't into the "no-school" thing. If they were, I know that my future will not be good. I won't get into college, I'd probably end up working at McDonalds, and I won't be able to provide for a family. So, "Dana and Joe, get a clue!!!"

 

 

Although I bet many adults and kids would agree with you when you say, "Us Kids are no where near being responsible enough to have such choices."

I disagree and here's why--Throughout history, young adults and teenagers have run businesses, given birth, fought in battles, supported an entire family (my name-sake did), and anything else you could possibily think of! So, what's happened? Are we becoming less and less naturally intelligent? Less trustworthy? Or are "us kids" being told that we are "no where near being responsible" and are we believing it?
 
Read Replies to this Message
sneakers145
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
November 24, 2006, 2:52 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: exador3

I'm watching the show right now.  I guarantee those kids will never move out.  Why would they?  They'll be 30 and Miss "let them bottle feed until they're 12"  will say "It's fine that you live here.  You'll move out when you feel like it."

I guarantee they'll be fine.  Confidence comes when your needs are fully met and you're emotionally healthy.

 

If you'd met my son as an infant and toddler you would have said the same thing.  He was the velcro kid, couldn't be put down, and nursed 'til he was almost 4.  I gave him what he needed -- lots of cuddling, holding, co-sleeping, and let him nurse.

 

At age 7, he chose to attend a sleepaway camp 6 hours from home.  So 'mollycoddling him' didn't make him more dependent on me.  In fact, having his needs met gave him the confidence to be independent.

 

Amazing what happens when you think outside the box and listen to your heart rather than conventional wisdom.
 
Read Replies to this Message
gurlzrok
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
November 24, 2006, 2:53 pm PST

Fair Discussion

I agree, homeschooling isn't for everyone.  It takes a lot of time and a lot of effort on the part of the parent and the child.  However, for some, this is a completely viable option.

 

I began homeschooling on the advice of a public school teacher.  Why?  Because my 4 year old daughter was testing at the 5/6 grade reading/comprehension level.  The teacher said she would be bored, try homeschooling for a few years, then send her to public school.  So I did, and I've never looked back. 

 

My oldest is now a junior in high school.  The cover school we are in includes a drama club, a school paper, a band, a student council, and all relevant classes (science, math, languages) that you might need for high school credits.  My daughter plays on the volleyball team, has been in drama for a couple of years, is the secretary of the student council, takes Human AP and TAs the biology class.  She has also written for the school paper and won awards for her volunteer work in the community.  She now works part-time at the library where she once volunteered.

 

Everywhere she volunteers and/or works I get calls from the employers telling me how great she does and how glad they are to have her.  They also ask that my other two be allowed to volunteer more often because they are also great workers.  They have great social skills, lead tours through the history museum, and can work quietly, when the specifics require it.

 

As for testing, my oldest took the ACT for the first time and scored a 31.  She plans to take it again and try and raise that score.  There is no fear of testing because our cover school has required the SAT tests be taken every year.

 

I appreciated some of the comments on today's show, but felt the discussion should continue on for more than one episode.  There was the one young lady who felt socially retarded, why not hear from another homeschooler who feels the opposite, let them discuss what was different in their homeschool situations so that we can learn from them.

 

Also, I'd like to see more on a homeschooler (rather than just the "radical" unschooler).  They are an extreme, and not representative of the unit.  I'd like more people to be able to voice their efforts in this area so we can see that it can be done, and it can be done well.  But it can only be done well with effort.
 
Read Replies to this Message
bootlegteen47
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
November 24, 2006, 2:54 pm PST

Home Schooling

When I was a child growing up I was taught at home by my older sister.  My parents never put us in school because we did not have decent clothing or shoes to wear.  Someone ended up calling the authorities on my parents in 1969.  We were forced to go to school.  It was myself, age 11, my sister age 9 and youngest sister age 7.  They put me into the 5th grade.  I was like a year behind of my grade level.  I stayed in back of the classroom with a teacher's aide for a few months to get one on one attention.  I was then put with the rest of the class and the teachers were amazed on how smart I was.  I was especially great and reading and writing.  As time passed by I was skipped from 7th to 8th grade.  I was always a straight A student until I got to high school.  I made some bad choices and hung out with the wrong people.  I ended up dropping out at age 16.   I did go to work though.  I wanted to buy the things that my parents could not afford.  At age 20 I got into a typing school and got job placement.  I have been working as a Secretary ever since and that was 28 years ago.  I did end up getting my GED.  I am now in college on line and doing OK.  So to me home schooling is a very good idea. 
 
Read Replies to this Message
cmkennedy124
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
November 24, 2006, 2:54 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

  I just want to add one last, but good, point to this topic.

I think there are always going to be good and bad things people will say about Public and homeschooling as nothing in life is perfect but, here are some points I think we can all agree on:

1) Both Public Schools AND Home Schools/private can produce an unsuccessful/failed child/adult.
2) There are bad and good teachers on either side.
3) It's up to the parents to make sure their kids are educated successfully in either PS or HS. When my child was not being taught or given help needed....I gave it to her....it was MY responsibility; not the governments that she was/is successful in her young life.
4) A successful student makes up two parts: One part willingness to teach the child AND one part willingness of the child to learn. If something is causing a child to NOT want to learn...find out what it is and take it out of the equation.

Point? Both PS and HS can be unsuccessful; it depends on the parent/teacher and child.
 
Read Replies to this Message
kowelee
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
November 24, 2006, 2:54 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: rkswan

I'm sorry but you can not compare one analogy to another. ALL LIFE LESSONS ARE NOT LEARNED IN SCHOOL!! I do home school, and have done so for 8 years. Can you tell me what life lessons my children are being cheated out of? As a parent, it is my job to teach my child to make good and right choices. What if I don't agree with your choices that you may teach my child? Am I to turn them over to other adults (I'm mainly referring to younger/middle schooled chidren)? I don't feel that's a teachers responsibility. They are there to teach academics.

 

Besides that, I do have several family members and friends who are teachers. They are teaching in some of the best schools in our area and they tell me on a regular basis they would choose homeschooling over traditional schooling if they still had/when they have children. I'm happy that your experience with children has been good but please have an open mind when it comes to comparing what it right for every chiild. It's not a black or white issue and should not be made as such.

I totally agree with you ( mom who homeshools).  I neither homeschool nor send my child to public school because he is only three years old.  However, I like the fact that it will be my choice as to what will be best for him.  I did read what the teacher had to say and I have to admit it sounds good on the surface...teachers  are educated and trained to teach...what makes a mom unable to be trained and educated to teach???  I learned a long time ago from my English Professor that a school's main goal , as far as he was concerned, was to teach me how to think for my self, thus enabling me to teach myself! 

 

Why would you say that teachers have a Masters degree? Not all teachers have a masters degree and certainly not the majority!  I taught for two years in the state of Texas.  I started during the shcools state testing....I could not teach my math lesson until every child in the classroom had finished the tests.  A child was given any amount of time he/she needed to complete the test? This is what you consider the best choice for a child?

 

 

'
 
Read Replies to this Message
First | Prev | 99 | 100 | 101 | 102 | 103 | 104 | 105 | 106 | 107 | 108 | Next | Last

  • Be in the Audience >>Click Here or call 323-461-PHIL
  • Visit the Dr. Phil Foundation >>Click Here
 
Recent Shows: Dr. Phil Family Returns: ... | Cut the Cord | "Will My Mother-in-Law De... | Shocking School Sex Abuse... | P.I. Moms: The Truth Behi...