Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

NOT ALL LIFE LESSONS ARE LEARNED IN PUBLIC SCHOOL!

i think you need to do a little more research in what your saying.....it was mentioned in the show that children who were unschooled have past the SAT's with flying colours....and parents that don't involve their children in social activities, or involve them on a team of some  sort, those are the children to suffer socially....im sure that homeschooled or unschooled children are taught how to write an essy.....its not hard.....but nothing is perfect either....traditional schooling seems to be getting unsafer every year.....i hated it....my little cousins are completely messed up....caught up in the "have to be like this or your not good enough"......more drugs are in the schools.....when i was in school...weed, muchrooms, acid is all i ever heard of or saw....now its heroin, crack, extacy, ice.......WTF

"The vote at the end I had to laugh at, because the people who held up their hands about thinking public school was best, have never set foot in a home school and they don't know any home schoolers, I am willing to bet on it."

Why do you feel so comfortable making that assumption? And why do you laugh at people who have different opinions than you?

 I am a retired elementary school teacher who taught in the Dade Country (Miami) Public Schools for 42 years. I have 5 college degrees. Teachers know how to teach. We have been trained to teach many different subjects. We have objectives, tests, and interactive activities for our students. We take training courses and workshops every year. We are evaluated by our principal. Public school give structure helpful to children.Children need the social background of public school where they make a circle of friends, some of whom they will know for a lifetime. Children also need the many teachers with their experience. Parents cannot do that. Those parents on the program who were so concerned about shootings were a little out of focus. Most schools now have security practices, such as keeping the classroom doors locked, plus security officers who roam the halls, passes etc. A few people will get past security but shootings also happen in malls, grocery stores, roads, homes, ad infinitum. There is no absolutely safe place. Those parents who were so anxious to home school remind me of the ostrich.....heads in the  sand. I challenge any parent to stand up to any good teacher and do a better job. Those parents just don't have enough experience.

Some may have the intelligence and knowledge to homeschool adequately, but any groups you form are really just imitation, pre-cursors to regular classrooms. The vote at the end included private schools, too, and it is best for older children, and most children become older, and need group learning environment, new knowledge, and the option to safely form friendships with strangers. What nonsense are you teaching your kids in natural science? "Kids these days" still have one each of a father and a mother. If parents are neglecting them except for a mere 2 hours, then schools at least provide ONE responsible, though harried, adult. Any wonder the schools are struggling and nearly drowning in societal and parental neglect? It is NOT the schools' fault that the parents refuse to raise their own children, or take a role in their education.

It always saddens me when public schools are blamed for the horrible behavior of students.  When children learn destructive behavior, it isn't school that teaches them that.

 

I am a teacher in a small rural school in northern Maine, and very proud of my job.  I love each and every one of my students, even the ones that make my blood pressure and stress level rise every day. 

 

Teachers care for their students.  We may not love them like parents can, but we certainly care for their well-being and their success.  I began a program this year for students who were struggling academically.  Tuesday through Thursday three teachers stay after school for an hour to host a "Homework Haven" to assist students with study skills or any questions on homework they may have for the evening.  It isn't a perfect solution, but at least its a solution, and that's something I don't see with the homeschool movement.

 

Instead of trying to fix a situation that they are unhappy with, parents yank their children from school, or make a decision without even attempting public school.  If you are unhappy with the conditions at your public school, get on the school board, meet with the super or the principal, make a difference.  Don't just run from the problem.

 

The most important thing school offers is the academic fields, high school teachers are experts in their fields.  I am a teacher, I almost have my masters and I would NEVER try to teach my own child science.  I am aware that although I am well educated in English and History, and could probably hold my own in art, there is no way I could teach the high level math and science she will need to be successful in college.  And whether home school or anti school parents want to admit it or not, if they want their children to be successful in life, chance are they will have to attend college.  Public school teaches children that not everything in life is easy, fun or interesting.  I hate to admit it, but sometimes school is boring and tedious.  And students often have to do things that they don't want to do, but life is that way as well.  How many of us would make our house payments if we had a "choice"?  Life is about learning to enjoy what we can, and be tolerant of what we can't.  We must teach the children of today how to live in tomorrow, or we are all doomed.

   I can understand why some people have doubts about homeschooling. In many people's minds, homeschooling is a relatively new form of education. This, however, is not true. Many of the U.S.'s early presidents were home schooled, self taught or taught in small schoolhouses, which were usually run by a church or small organization. It wasn't until recently that the government took the 'responsibility' of teaching children. This has worked well for some families and not so well for others. I don't necessarily think people's academic problems are the school's or the parent's fault. Instead, I think it depends on how a certain student's mind works.

 

   I've been home schooled since fifth grade and am now a junior in high school and I love it. With homeschooling, you get to choose which company's curriculum fits your fancy, you get to work at your own pace, so you actually learn everything you need to, you also can usually get most of your school work done before the morning is finished because you don't have to deal with the distraction of other people or switch periods every forty minutes. You can take the time to actually absorb what you're reading instead of having to stay up 'till midnight studying.

 

   As for social interaction, there's plenty of home school groups popping up around the country. They usually offer classes that need more than one student and usually require an instructor. For example: The 'In Him Homeschoolers' group that I'm with offers Spanish 1 and 2, Algebra 1 and 2, Oceanography, Composition writing, and Drama ,which, all have work deadlines. The group meets at a church every Friday from 9:30am-5:30pm. It's a full day of school and social interaction. There are over 40 home schoolers in the group and I know almost all of them personally. We have parties, go to movies, have study groups, host performances for drama, help the needy in the neighborhood, and we get to know each other in the process. I've made more quality friends in this home school group than I ever had in public school simply because we have more in common, namely, we're all Christians. I understand the need for diversity, but within the 40 kids in our group there are countless different opinions and many shared ones as well.

 

   Some may wonder how we cope with the prospect of college and they're right to do so. If you aren't completely dedicated to your work and don't set deadlines for yourself, you will fail as a home schooler! I got almost half a school-year behind because I just sat on my duff . Needless to say, it didn't work and I realized that in order to get to college and to study what I wanted to, I needed to do well with all of my high school work, not just what I liked. Getting to college on time is probably the hardest deadline I want to reach and I'm doing it the home school way.

 

You can visit In Him Homeschoolers at: www.inhimhome.org

Surely you must realize that the children you mentioned do not represent ALL homeschooled children.

 

You also must be aware that many homeschoolers go straight to college without ever interring the public school system. My 17 year old started college at 16 after being homeschooled. He had NO problems adjusting to college life. He is in his second year of college majoring in computer science, made the Dean's list and works after school.

 

Also it's interesting to note that your "public school" apparently did nothing to help the "rough crowd of public school" students, in case 1. Were they just written off as unreachable? In case 2 I know plenty of students who attended public school for their entire educational lives and got knocked up. A 10th grade friend from my public school days was one. So exactly how did the fact that the student in case 2 being homeschooled lead to her being knocked up? and at least she came back to school to finish her education, plenty of others do not. As for case 4 are you honestly going to say that no public school students ever get behind or fail to advance to the next grade?

 

Even though my kids are homeschooled they do not have any problems speaking up for themselves and letting their wishes be known. I know public school students who will not communicate their dislike of a team position when asked, my husband has coached plenty of them. I also know plenty of public school students who have been disrespectful and talked back to the coach when told to do something. I do not assume they represent all public school students.

I agree 100%! You've hit the mark!

 

I posted this earlier and it didn't show up ... So I'm going to try again.  I don't usually come to boards like this and forgive me that I'm going to short cut here.  I see a lot of assumptions from both sides here that are really because many haven't experienced or seen the positive aspects.  I'm including an article that came from a posting I did for a friend in college.  Many of the topics where in response to a homeschool debate and specific issues that were brought out on the show today as well as in several postings.  I hope that it will open your eyes and minds a bit.

Shanon in NC

 

Article:

 

First I'd like to provide a little background since I am not a student in this class...  My name is Shanon.  My husband and I have homeschooled our children for 6 years now.  We are members of a church, but we homeschool secularly, which means not with religion and not for religious reasons.  My husband is a career soldier in the Army and I am fortunate enough to stay home with our children.  We are both educated adults.  This wasn't something we knew from the beginning we would be doing!  Our oldest child did attend public school for 9 weeks.  We have 3 children, two daughters ages 11 and 8, and a son age 3.  We do not homeschool because of what is "wrong" or "right" about public or private schools.  We homeschool because of the VALUE that homeschooling offers for our children, their education and our family.  Frankly what is right about homeschooling has nothing to do with public or private education. 

 

The question of socialization seems to be the most commonly misunderstood assumption about homeschool children.  I think people are always surprised at what the word "socialization" actually means.  Webster's dictionary defines socialization as:

1- To place under government or group ownership or control, 2 -To make fit for companionship with others, 3 -To convert or adapt to the needs of society, 4 -The adoption of the behavior patterns of the surrounding culture. 

 

When you think about a local school, walk down the hallways, and tell me which behavior you see that you think your child should adopt as his own so he "fits in" to the government or group that is in control.  Thinking of it in those terms should make us all consider any group our children are involved in and the need for people to "convert" or "adapt" to the needs of that group.    Think about the behaviors of children today.  Converting and adapting to the needs of society.  The society children in school are around involves behavior problems, drugs, gangs, racism, sex too young, alcohol, criticism and ostracizing for being "different" as defined by the group in ownership or control.  Haven't government schools done a wonderful job of socialization?  I am deeply concerned about socialization, but not for homeschoolers, for children in government education. 

 

"How will homeschool children make friends?" is something else I have heard.  While I will joking respond, "I'm not in school and I have friends.  None of the friends I have went to school with me"  A more serious response should be added.  School is not the only place to make friends.  In fact, it is difficult in school today to form friendships in the limited time that is provided for chatting and playing and getting to know one another.  Within school, friends are more forces rather than chosen due to class interaction, or being "assigned" to one another through a class or group project.  Children who are homeschooled participate in activities just like children in public or private education.  They participate in 4-H, community sports, Scouting, Service Groups.  They are members of church.  Local homeschool organizations (and there are 4 in Fayetteville alone, one with over 250 families as members) have organized events and get together's for homeschoolers.  Their parents have friends with home they meet other children.  For example, I came to writing this because one of my good friends, Kelly, who is a student in this class, asked for my comments.  I have known Kelly for 7 years.  We are several years apart in age so we would not have met in school as she would have been several grades below me.  However, we met doing something we both enjoyed, volunteering.  We got together outside of that program and our children met.  Over the years they have played together, and attended each others birthday parties.  But they don't attend school together.  Our friendship came from a common interest and it was our choice to be friends. 

 

"Aren't you afraid your kids WON'T fit in and be with the in crowd?" To this I respond, "Aren't you afraid yours will?"  My children are not forced to make poor choices just to be considered "in" or "popular" by peer pressure.  They are learning self esteem and to be confident with the choices they make without having others to criticize them because their pants are the wrong brand or their hair isn't the latest style.  We all went through this.  And most of us can still feel the scares left behind.  And yet as adults, we wouldn't take this.  We wouldn't remain in an environment that compromised our beliefs or views or criticized us because of our hair or clothes.  We wouldn't call back a person or pursue a friendship of someone who bullied us or pressured us.   Why do we put different expectations onto our children?  I often find it funny how a parent is so quick to protect their child in their own home or in a neighborhood when they will march down to talk to an "offending" child or their parent.  Yet they will continually dress them and push them off to school for behavior that is often worse, but because it is "school" it becomes expected.  If you put yourself into a room with a group of Junior High and High School Homeschooled children and you sit back and watch, you will see children who are comfortable with themselves.  No one is judging each other about what they are wearing, or how much they did or didn't get for Christmas.  Why?  Because these students aren't taught that in their home.  They are taught to make their own choices based upon their likes for clothes and hair and toys.  Our daughter at 11, is planning a summer pet care job on our street, making up posters and being a kid.  (I'm sure some of you are saying "nerd" - not true!  She is well liked, beautiful, and has many friends)  While other children we know (from church and other organizations) at 11 are talking about their friends steeling cigarettes and others testing out bisexuality, at 11!  And these are kids from religious families whom we know the parents to be strict and caring, but they are in school where these influences come from.  Parents cannot control peer pressure in the schools.  Some may view our ideals with homeschooling as shelter.  We are perfectly comfortable with NOT explaining bisexuality to our 11 year old daughter.   So to this we say, how do we plan to handle peer pressure and how to we plan to socialize our child?  Our answer is "properly" by providing an environment for them to grow strong and confident with their own choices without feeling the need to conform to make a temporary friend or to be considered popular for that moment in time.  To feel safe with the choices they make so when faced in the future with controversy, they will stand strong and believe in themselves, not have to look to others to see if it is "cool" or "in" to make that choice.  Schools teach children how to React.  We teach our children at home how to Act.  Having the skills to Act in the first place means they won't need the same reaction skills someone who doesn't know how to act in the first place needs. 

 

By being home our children do not pick up on bad language because we don't use it in our home.  They do use manners because it is expected and we have taught them correct behavior.  They see adults setting an example with good manners and respect for property and others so this is what they emulate rather than disrespect for school property or teachers or others.  They do not learn to be prejudice because someone is different because we don't point out those differences.  They don't view getting an "A" or working your best and doing outstanding on a project as being a nerd and something to be ashamed of because people might call you teacher's pet or kiss up.  Our kids talk about their friends on the street by their hair color "mom it is the girl with brown hair, or black hair" not it is the black girl or Korean girl.  It is descriptive, not racist to them.  Our kids base their friendships on common interests.  They have respect for all people.  They are oblivious to others skin color, backgrounds, or age differences.  Life is a mixing pot.  And I challenge all adults to tell me where in life they will ever find themselves in an environment where every person with them will be within the same year as them in age.  Homeschool children are mixed by interests and education.  Both of our girls are a grade above their age.  This was not on purpose.  We just don't have the distractions and time restraints so they work at their own pace.  What a nightmare to move an 8 year old into a 4th grade class to be called names for being too smart, or to be teased about being too young and still playing with dolls.  Way to stunt learning!  Yet at home she knows no difference and in 10 years it won't make a difference.  As Homeschoolers, the world is our classroom. We interact with people of all ages, sexes and backgrounds. We talk to and learn from everyone who strikes our interest.

 

One of my favorite articles comes from a homeschooler now in collage.  It is a great read at: http://www.geocities.com/unschoolgrad/socialization.html

 

"Homeschoolers need to deal with tardiness"... is this the consequences of tardiness?  Schools punish children for not attending a class on time.  Life is full of appointments and schedules to teach a child to arrive at a location prepared and on time.  Doctor, Dentist, car repair, church service, etc.  Taking into account society today and look at how many people arrive late to everything!  (Did government education teach them that is acceptable?)  If you arrive after your scheduled time many places will now make you reschedule and will charge a fee.  We have life experiences to use to teach our children the importance of staying on schedule, relying on schools to teach our children this skill is putting a responsibility onto the shoulders of a teacher that should be an example set at home. 

 

Authority...  The most important authority in a child's life is their parents.  Active, involved in discipline and training.  Outside of a homeschool home, children are involved in other groups that have "leaders" and "guides" which they learn to respect just like a child does in school.  North Carolina state law dictates that each homeschool must have a designated teacher and principal.  While we joke about this and of course our children don't call us "Mr. and Mrs." we do have a level of respect during our school work, but it is the same we expect in our home all the time.  They learn at church to respect their elders.  They respect the police and fire department (yes, we study the community as well) and the President of the United States.  North Carolina within the last month changed it's policies on hiring teachers due to an extreme shortage of teachers.  As long as you have a college education you may now become a teacher in this state.  Consider this!  Your child's teacher may have a degree in meat science or dental school!  Authority that is prepared to train a child?  Homeschool parents have many opportunities to take seminars, read books on meeting the needs of your unique child, and other parents to gather information from.  Why are we as parents acceptable to teach our child to speak a language (one of the hardest things to do!), to feed themselves, to dress themselves, and many other tasks we take for granted.  But we aren't acceptable to open a book and read together?

 

So many of these points that come to homeschoolers are things that honestly we chuckle about.  Mainly because it is just every day life to us to teach our children respect and timeliness, and follow through and why should this have to be purposely pointed out except for ignorance on the part of a non-homeschooler making poor assumptions.  It is important to look to the future and the long term goals of a homeschooling family.  We want our children to have a love of learning, and not to squash that by mandating to a test or pushing peer pressure and poor influences on them that makes them hate the learning process.  We want to cherish our family time and travel frequently taking school with us or adapting our travels to our schooling education.  I think it would behoove everyone to remove the glasses that education placed upon you as a public or private school being "the only way" of education.