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Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

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Created on : Friday, November 17, 2006, 12:57:50 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Parents want the best for their children, but what’s the best way to educate them? Dr. Phil’s guests face off in a debate about whether to school, homeschool or unschool. Dana and her husband, Joe, call themselves radical unschoolers. They say education happens as a side effect of life, and they don’t believe in tests, curriculums or grades. Are their three kids learning what they need to know? Then, RaeAnn says public schools are death traps and wants to homeschool her children. Her husband, Steve, says their kids are safer at school than they are at home. Can this couple reach a compromise? Plus, Nicole feels like an outcast at 26. She says she hated being homeschooled, and couldn’t relate to other kids. Share your thoughts here.

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November 24, 2006, 5:12 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: exploringart

When I attended public school, I was inspired by teachers throughout my schooling.  They piqued my interest in science, debate and art.  I know that my interests in these subjects would not have been piqued by instruction in the home schooling situation.  By having different teachers all of the years that I was in school, I was subjected to many points of view and many ways of teaching.  I woudln't trade those experiences for the opportunity to be home schooled.

It was good for me too.  I am 45.  I have volunteered for 4 yrs at our public school and it is not that way anymore.  I pulled my son out last Dec.  You should go set in a 2nd grade class today all day.  Just one day a week. 
 
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November 24, 2006, 5:13 pm PST

I Homeschool now and love it!

     I began home schooling my son in 2004, when he was in fourth grade. He is a child actor and model and travels a lot for auditions and jobs. When he fist began his acting career he still went to public school We went to California for Pilot Season when he was in third grade and when we returned home a lot of the boys were jealous of him and the attention he was getting from everyone, so  they dragged him across the playground and kicked in his ribs and in the crotch. My son wasn't even bragging about himself or doing anything to encourage their behavior. The principal told me it would stop and it didnt'. My son started the fourth grade year at his public school and the bullying and abuse started again and there was nothing done to stop it. We were getting ready to go to California again in January of 2005 so when Christmas vacation came in 2004 I informed the principal that Gage would begin being home schooled in January. We love it! He does his work in the morning hours and can do his acting and modeling. We are under an Umbrella school that is a private Christian school that I send grade reports to twice a year. We belong to a home school group in which the children meet and go on field trips and have parties like at public school for the holidays throughout the year. The kids get a yearbook, Kindergarten and Senior graduations. My son is very socially active, in church, acting, modeling, he played soccer this fall, he races motocross and has lots of friends. I do not need to worry that some stressed out child or adult will come into his classroom with a gun and shoot him, or that his bus will be run off the road. He is being educated and is a very smart and talented eleven year old boy that is extremely happy in his life. No playground beatings and no worry of guns, and guess what, he can pray to Jesus whenever he wants, and religion is part of his daily curriculum. I am not against public schools, we just do better at home in our family and situation. God bless, Barb

 
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November 24, 2006, 5:14 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: cimba33

I don't understand why you feel that public school is the only place that kids will "get a taste of the diverse world we live in they are not going to know how to handle different situations that occur through our lives".  Please explain your statement.

 

 

They never experience a difference if the only non-family they ever try to befriend are at church, or in a choir, or on the soccer field. Sure, a private school could work, but not if it is a segregated, strictly denominational setting, like Jonestown.
 
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November 24, 2006, 5:14 pm PST

Against Home School

 I have been a teacher for 27 years, on occasion I have had somehome school students that have crossed over to tradition school. Frequently they have entered my study skills class, or one of my remedial class. The biggest gap, I found, was they had no idea how to behavior with other people,how to get along with peers, how to fit  into a schedule, daily, and how to survive without mom. ALSO our job as parents, and teachers, and I am the mother of four grown children, is to prepared them to be well adjusted PRODUCTIVE members of society.  Unschoolers, in particularar, not teaching their children anything that will prepare them for areal adult life. I didn't get a feel for any of the parents own educational level, except for the one who was a high school drop out, nor what they did for a living. I will say that they all seemed like they loved their children, and that is a wonderful thing, however sometimesover  loving your children is not the most fun orthe nicest thing to do with them. Children need discipline to learn self discipline, they need to be denied their needs sometimes, so that they will be able to adapt to stressful situations, and they need to have parents, not friends.
MI personally found the behavior of the children from the unschoolers unacceptable.Children are not to be given the respect of adults, that comes with time, and is something they EARN.
I am not convinced that homeschoolers/ unschoolers will be functionally in the adult work world. I feel they will be more non productive,welfare recipients with a sense of entitlement.
 
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November 24, 2006, 5:15 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: pietva

You were shortchanged by the school, or the teacher...perhaps you are one that might have benefitted from homeschooling, and being held back, or at least placed correctly when older. Could your parents have taught you to spell "college", or ensured that you would get better grades, or be able to go to college? Your parents ought to have taken more interest in your classroom and your grades, and helped ensure you (and others, no doubt. in your class) were not allowed to hide behind shyness, and bullies, etc. had no opportunity to tease, nor a free get-out-of-jail card. Ask yourself what example you set for your children who could not graduate from high school, those who had similar grandchildren, or maybe had no other resource other than become a cog in a military, strictly delineated institution?
You know, parents of children in school do indeed do these things.  It's not like such options never occured to them.  People give advice to these parents as if they have not already spent months in and out of the principal's office like it's a revolving door.  However, you don't know how many other parents are also being proactive with the school staff, insisting that their child get better treatment as well.  I know the principal and staff of my children's school got very tired and irritated with the squeaky wheels who were proactive to defend their child's safety.  It's grown so commonplace that there are bullies that only the very worst cases are treated with the grave concern they deserve.

I even witnessed one parent leave the office before I went in to discuss things, and the vice principal rolled her eyes toward the parent.  Some of these children are still in school, while others have moved on and homeschooled.  It's often a waste of time for parents to be away from their children, debating their child's safety with the principal when what they need most is the parent and a non-toxic environment.
 
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November 24, 2006, 5:15 pm PST

My response

Quote From: purplepenny

"The vote at the end I had to laugh at, because the people who held up their hands about thinking public school was best, have never set foot in a home school and they don't know any home schoolers, I am willing to bet on it."

Why do you feel so comfortable making that assumption? And why do you laugh at people who have different opinions than you?
I won't say I laughed, but I do think it wasn't appropriate.  Why?  Because the audience was biased.  Go to a Homeschool support meeting and you'd get the opposite vote.  Homeschoolers of course are greatly out numbered in the US but that number is growing.  I'm sure someone could post the exact percentage but I know in my state it is thousands added per year.  I just think it was a poor way to close the show as it didn't leave the opinion open but rather a "this is how the majority feels that public school is better" attitude which I don't think is truly the case.
 
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November 24, 2006, 5:17 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: holmesd

It really sounds to me that this [unschooling couple hasn't been in the public schools since they were students themselves.  Their conversation included things like "teachers who stand in front telling the kids" the content, which is something that hasn't been done in our schools for many, many years.  Teaching in the public schools, from beginning years through at least 8th grade, has taken on the face of independent learning, cooperative learning, research opportunities, and many other avenues that go way beyond a teacher standing in front of the group, lecturing; that picture is extremely rare in today's schools.  Our goals, as teachers, are to find the ways in which students are able to learn in the best ways possible.  We teach to their strengths, changing those methods so that each student's strength is met at some point along the way.  It isn't possible for every student's strength to be hit every single time; you help them to make those less strong ways of learning a little bit stronger each time around.  I believe these people are doing their children an injustice and that those children will definitely have more difficulties as adults as a result. 

Years and years?  It was just aone or two years ago that I heard a teacher yelling at her kids down the hall - she actually told me "well, some kids need to be yelled at".  This was first grade.  I don't think any child in school in first grade NEEDS to be yelled at!
 
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November 24, 2006, 5:18 pm PST

Best Way To Go

I believe public schooling is the best way to go, especially for puberty-aged children and up. First and foremost, we must remember that just because a parent is well educated on a certain topic does not mean they are very well qualified to TEACH that subject, especially to a child. Teachers are required to go to school and complete certification for a reason! Also, in school students are able to come together with other students, work with each other and learn from each other all the while learning how to work WITH each other in a structured setting. Cooperation skills are skills that are just not acquired very well by homeschooled children, yet they are skills required in today's working environment.

 

Secondly, public schooling allows for various experiences to happen, some good and of course some bad. Previous posters have commented on the exposure to bullying as a downfall of public schooling, and of course anyone would agree that bullying is a very unfortunate situation that we would all want to protect our children from. At the same time, bullying is a REAL part of this WORLD, not just school. Instead of running from it, and essentially teaching our children how to hide from it, why not teach them how to address the situation in a proactive and productive manner? Which do you think will better benefit them in the long run?

 

Besides that, this nation is becoming more and more culturally rich and diverse. Sure, you may put your daughter in dance, and your son in football, but is that truly exposing them to all of the cultures and beliefs that make our nation so great? Dancing for a few hours a week with a group of girls most likely of similar racial, cultural, and economical backgrounds does not compare to learning and working with both sexes from a wide variety of backgrounds for several hours a week.

 

Homeschooling does not prepare children for the real world because it is not the real world. Why rob your children of such important experiences that will certainly make them better, more well-adjusted and more well-prepared individuals?

 

 

 
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November 24, 2006, 5:20 pm PST

GT

Quote From: lettiecs

I am not sure how I feel about "unschooling". We know of only one family who are unschoolers, and those children are not doing too well on any level. The children place no value on commitments or deadlines; However, I don't believe that is indicative of the majority of unschoolers.

 

I am homeschooling my daughter for a number of reasons,but will detail only the major points. She did attend kindergarten in our school district and then we saw the need to do something different.

 

Our daughter was tested at a 2nd grade level when she was admitted to kindergarten. The teachers called me to a conference and said that my daughter actually tapped out the 2nd grade charts, but  legally they could not test her any higher, nor were they allowed to place my daughter in the 3rd grade, which they believed was the level she should be placed at.

 So my child was in kindergarten where she was sent to 1st and 2nd grade classrooms for math, and reading. In doing this, she would miss out on field trips and recess time, which were scheduled for the times she was in the other classrooms.

My daughter felt left out and lonely. She was never with other children as she was getting her teaching from a couple of para educators in the classroom,and not actually mainstreamed.

She began to have severe asthma attacks and would be sent home from school. My daughter missed alot of school due to asthma and the need for a nebulizer machine, which the school could not administer to her.

 

 Currently my daughter is on a 6th grade level, and if she were still in the public school, she would only be in the 3rd grade. This is a very social child. She has taken dance classes, gymnastics and is in taekwondo. She is also involved in a youth group at church.,and there is also a homeschoolinging organization in our area, which organizes sports activities and field trips as well as art and science cooperatives.

Our daughter has many advantages over children who are in public schools. She does her studies in the morning and is usually finished by lunch. Then she helps me with the daycare children, and helps bake and clean, and of course, she gets to spend alot more time playing.  She is getting hands on learning as well as book studies, and will most likely graduate at age 16.

 

The most important change that has taken place, is that my daughter no longer has asthma. She is a socially and emotionally well-adjusted child.

 

Whereas public school is not the right option for my daughter, that doesn't make it wrong for someone else. Each child is an individual with specific needs.

Education is important and the options should be researched and weighed very carefully. Each parent has the responsibility to do what is best her their own children.

 

 

 

 

 

Sounds like your daughter was robbed of her rightful experience in school.  If you are being truthful, and I am going to assume you are, you were lied to.

Gifted and Talented children are continually tested to manage grade level.  You should have requested to move your child to the second grade, your daughter sounds gifted, the area I am studying for my masters in.  If she is indeed gifted, being in second grade, or wherever she tested at, would have served her needs well, and although you may have been concerned about her social abilities, most gifted children get along with peers of an older age group than with age peers.  I would seriously consider exploring some other options either in your district, or outside your district.  You have the law behind you, the district you are currently in was not serving the needs of your child.  If you daughter is indeed gifted, you will not be able to keep up with her...although you sound very intelligent.  She needs socialization with peers that have her abilitiy so that she doesn't feel alone, a common ailment of gt students.

I wish you luck!

 
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November 24, 2006, 5:20 pm PST

good job!

Quote From: renasfamily

I believe that it is truly a difficult decision on whether homeschooling or public/private schooling is best. I made a drastic decision when my daughter was about to enter Junior High school. I lived in a large city at the time and my oldest daughter would have entered Junior High in her next year of school. At the end of the year I found out the school conducted a locker check and found guns, knives, drugs and other weapons. A day or two later, I picked my son up from day care and went to the elementary school to pick up my kids. After leaving the school, I proceeded to drive home. I came upon a cross street that was one block away from the elementary school and only three blocks from the junior high school. A group of junior high or high school students came running around the corner and I almost hit them. I thought that was the worst until the last young man came around the corner. As the young man ran right in front of my car and around to my the drivers side window, he looked me in the face, jacked the bullets out of his gun, put his finger to his mouth, as to say "be quiet" and ran away.

 

I made a drastic change. I went to visit a friend that lived in a very small town, got a job and found a home and moved my kids out of the situation. So, listening to the young mother cry on stage about wanting her children to stay alive, I can understand. However, don't go to the extreme of over doing it.

 

I can't remember who on the show stated that the kids miss out on dances, playing sports etc... when they are homeschooled. That is not true in the town that we live in. Not only do we have county programs, 4H etc... the school allows the homeschooled kids to attend the dances and they encourage the kids to join the sports programs. So, you need to really research what your local schools will or will not allow before you all make the choices.

 

I beleive homeschooling is a great opportunity in some circumstances. Do what you think is best. Homeschool, Public School, Private School etc... just make sure you are giving your children the best because they are our future and they are VERY VERY IMPORTANT!! Your childrens education and life experiences will be what forms their future and teach them how to handle what is in store for them as they grow into adulthood.

 

I hated history as well Dr. Phil and you are correct. All those dead people should teach us all something. Because everything tends to resurface or reoccur as life goes on.

 

Thanks for the opportunity to speak and I hope you all have a wonderful Holiday season.

I just wanted to say I applaud every thing you said. You gave everyone a fair ground to stand on, instead of judging others for the choices they make. :)
 
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