Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

Not the original unschooler getting this question, but let me see if I can answer. What I want for my children when they are adults is for them to have the tools to pursue their interests in a way that leaves them happy with their life. What that means for them is something they have to decide. It could be getting lots of money, it could be making enough to get by and having a lot of time with their family, it could be developing new treatments for some disease. I don't know what it will be, and even when they are adults, it could change. For me, now, it means letting them explore their interests, helping them to learn to learn and allowing them the chance to learn about themselves rather than about fitting into someone else's box. Those tough professions are really no different. You see them as tough, but someone with a passion would simply see the requirements as steps on the way. The only one of those careers with a time limitation is astronaut, and even that has a wide window. I know a woman who went to vet school at 40. I mentioned in an earlier post that my son is interested in going to the Coast Guard academy. Even that has a bigger age window that I would have thought. The only thing more competitive on your list would be astronaut, but astronaut has more paths in so it might balance out. We've looked into what it would take for him to pursue the CGA as a future option. Choosing to do so is up to him. Maybe some of how I see this comes from KNOWING that I can't prepare them for every particular thing they might want to do. I can only prepare them to find their way. There will be careers that don't even exist now, or are so speciality that they aren't even a consideration. My husband is a sucessful computer programmer/ language developer. He's self taught. What he does didn't exist to any great extent when he was in school. It certainly wasn't a career path his school was preparing him for. He failed out of college. When I was in school, the schools taught me nothing about what I wanted to do, dismissing it outright as a viable option, yet it is a field that plenty of people make a living in. It just wasn't a high profile college program (college was optional and rare at that point in it) and for the school it was about pushing me to get into a big name college and into an "important" field. I can't be assured that ANY method of education will leave me reasonably assured that it is going to give my kids the skills needed to enter the professions you named or others that are generally considered competitive. The only thing that can assure preparation for any path is the desire of the person with an interest intersecting with certain inate skills. If the desire and minimal levels of skills for the field(intelligence, dexterity, physical ability, etc.) aren't there, then desire can't make the rest happen. If they're there but need to be improved, desire can make the difference. Sometimes technology can change the physical limitations. If the desire isn't there, the rest doesn't matter.

Although you only made a slight mention of testing I wanted to comment on testing. I am not against testing at some capacities, but don't think it is all it is cracked up to be either. I used to subscridbe to a regular school teacher's magazine to see what they thought, studied, taught, etc. and one article with a lot of research behind it said that testing does not adequately determine a students intelligence or ability. I think in many ways good test scores come to those who are able to sustain enough of the infomation they have been given to get it on the paper when they need to. After that who knows. A man I know who is an engineer is brilliant, but he never had good test scores. He just couldn't do well on tests. He wasn't dumb it just didn't work out for him. Luckily that didn't hold him back.

Is there something magical about going to college at 18 that I failed to get the memo on? :) If you hadn't noticed, older students are a large part of the college population at this point. I can't see any reason that an 18 year old who wanted more preparation couldn't dedicate the next year to doing so and apply for 19. If my child has done no preparation until that point and decides s/he wants to go to college, then they'll do what they need to in order to qualify. That would be gain admission to the college first. If suddenly at 18, there appeared out of nowhere a desire to go to med school, then I suspect what would happen if it was a true desire is that said person would do what was needed to get into an undergrad premed program, apply to said program, and follow the standard course. I'm really not seeing what would be so difficult about this. It's not like you apply at first to med school except under certain VERY competitive small programs. Of course, the same thing would happen if someone my age without a degree or with a degree in field that didn't have much science wanted to go to med school. It gets done. My experience has been that the opposite happens - there's an interest and it leads to early coursework, but I realize that's anecdotal. :)

You are right we as a whole are blessed and can be proud to know that all the children have the resource of an education. Unfortunately that resource does not always benefit our children. I feel for the students who may live in more rural areas that may be hard to draw good teachers or big cities that may be overcrowded and understaffed. I don't want to sound as if the teachers who take on the roles for those schools are not good enough for these kids. They are likely working extra hard to meet their demands. I think in many ways they have their hands tied to budget constraints and administrative red tape. But we are a country that believe it or not has to have commercials telling us that children in our country are going hungry on a regular basis. That seems unreal for me. One of the richest nations in the world and we still can't get it all right.  On Oprah I watched a show on different school systems, even ones not far geographically from each other, and the huge differences between them. Socio-economics shouldn't determine our children's education. If it is meant to be free for all shouldn't also be good for all.

I believe that all subjects have a religious background. When religion is left out so much historical imformation is lost as well as the true origins of all subjects.

I have to admire and respect all of these parents for putting the welfare and "education" of their children first. There are many, many parents out there who, for whatever selfish excuse, merely let their kids get up on their own, get cleaned up, serve their own breakfast (if they eat at all) and get themselves off to school. There are some kids that actually do just that!. Than, there are those kids that just don't have the energy or motivation.

 

I am not one to sit in judgment when it comes to parents deciding how their children will receive an education--at home or in a regular school environment. Private or public. My kids went to both a private and a public school. Many advantages both ways and some disadvantages both ways. Any long-lasting psychological, emotional, social and mental harm? None that I can readily note.

 

I happen to think that it is a parents' responsibility to PREPARE (emotionally, mentally, physically, socially, spiritually) their child each and every morning that child gets up for school. It usually starts the night before. No, no, wait a minute, it should have started a way long time ago, way before the night before. But, just for practical purposes, I'll start with the night before. Insure, parents, that your child gets plenty of rest and sleep--oh, how about 7, 8, 9 hours of healthy sleep? You, the parent (one or both parents), should also have enough rest and sleep to take the initial action of waking up your child or help them make sure the alarm clock goes off.

 

Hey, parents! Should I keep going or do you get my drift? How about a complete breakfast---those studies are re-surfacing that show morning meal (or breakfast) is the best, healthiest meal of the entire day. It fuels you up. It fills up your brain and body tank. Its kind of like filling up your gas tank for that long drive to work. You know, energy, energy to be and stay at your most alert!! It's gonna be a long 4 or 5 hours before their next meal (or the first meal, in many cases). Ya gotta be a role model, parents. Show and teach your kids by example. Eat a good healthy morning meal. That's why we have such an overweight problem in this great, free society of ours. "I'm not hungry after I get up", is what kids and adults say.  We wait until noon to consume our FIRST meal of the day , get tired and sleepy by 3pm; eat a large calorie-base meal in the evening; watch a little TV and than off to bed. C'mon parents, kids learn what they are taught--bad habits, good habits, no habits.

 

Parents, you do what you think is best for your child. Don't let anybody sway you. Just keep this in mind. You want your child to develop good, healthy habit (emotional, mental, social, physical, and spiritual) and become happy, productive human beings regardless of how they receive an education. I once read a print by a very famous activist for education that went something like this: "Education teaches us how to make a good living, trouble is, education fails  to teach us how to live good".

 

I fully realize, being a parent myself, that we want the best for our child. We want to serve and protect them at every cost. Some of us may even feel compelled to shelter our children. Unfortunately, our kids need to realize that there is an unpleasant and sometime violent element that continues to plague this great country in which we live in. Our kids need to know what is happening on that other side of reality. If we don't teach them, than guess who will? We owe it to them.  

 

 

Peace to y'all 

 

It amazes me that a parent who chooses to teach his own children his personal belief system is accused of indoctrinating them.  At the same time a parent is expected to allow others to indoctrinate his children with the belief systems of the liberals who speak loudest.  They are my children and it is my responsibility to ensure they grow up with morals, standards and an outstanding education.  My choice to protect my children from the poisons of secular thinking is just that - my choice.  This country was founded on the beliefs I will pass down to my children.  The separation of church and state was intended to keep the state out of the church; not to keep the church out of the state.

I have chosen to homeschool my children when they become school age and incorporate my and my husband's beliefs.  I have a BS in Education and 7+ years of classroom experience in elementary and high school.  There is not a teacher on earth who cares more about my children or who wishes to see my children succeed more than I.

My children will become exposed to other belief systems and secular perspectives when they are old enough to reason and decide for themselves.  One doesn't give grade school children the keys to the car for a reason; they are not capable of handling the vehicle.  Likewise, one doesn't expose children to every belief out there because they are not capable of weeding out the heresies.

Different strokes for different folks. What's good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander. I didn't send my children to "prep school". No need to. There were private schools and public schools to chose from all around my community.

 

I know of a 16 year old who attended a prestigious prep school. He "earned" his way on a basketball scholarship.

 

So, what's your point? How do you know public school was not good enough for Dr. Phil and Robin's children? Are you comparing your children to that of someone else's? So, is that how you reached your decision to home-school your children?

Just like all of the congress members who go to Washington DC and put THEIR kids in private schools, but the poor kids are stuck in the  government schools.  And since these same congress members are afraid to vote for school vouchers, those of us that cannot afford $20k a year for prep school are left with only 2 options... homeschool or institutionalization. 

Gee!  What I could even do with the 6k + per child the public school would get for my 6 kids.... I could have one HIGH TECH classroom and a full library for 36k a year!  Not to mention private tutors and outside lessons galore!

I have 3 adult children.  They had just completed their 6th, 4th, and 1st grades (1990) when I removed them from public school.  Our school was notorious for not being parent-friendly.  Unless you were signing up to make cookies/cupcakes, your input was not welcome; nor were your questions.  Going in for a visit with the principal with concerns about the school's agenda and government sponsored "extra" classes, (classes, which when implemented meant more $$ for the school) resulted in his telling me that when my children were in his school, I no longer had any "rights" when it came to my children.  I was told my children needed to make their own decisions about what they wanted to read and watch, how they wanted to dress, whether or not they wanted piercings, and so on.  Like it or not, according to him, I could not have any control over that.  After that meeting, I made the scary, painful decision to take my children (who were excelling academically) out of the public school.  (There isn't room here to talk about the numerous situations which were happening in the school).    My oldest chose to go back to school when he reached 9th grade.  The other two chose to stay home.  Now that I'm finished, I have the answers to the infamous questions everyone asks:  WHAT ABOUT SOCIALIZATION?  HOW WILL YOU TEACH CALCULUS?    About socialization:  Public or homeschool, children are a reflection of who their parents are.  Nerdy parents will have nerdy children; social parents will have social children; well-rounded parents will have well-rounded children; and narrow-minded parents will have narrow-minded children.      About teaching calculus and other difficult subjects:  I dealt with each year as it came.  In the first month of homeschooling, it was all too clear I could not handle 8th grade math, and I could only barely handle 4th grade.  Calculus?  Are you kidding?  At that point, I didn't give a hoot about calculus...I just wanted my 5th grader to understand division.  How sad it was to realize how uneducated I was; a student of the 60's & 70's with a HS diploma showing I made it, but not showing it was only by a very bare thread.  I loved teaching my 2nd grade daughter, whose curriculum I totally understood.  Ironically enough, as I taught her, year after year, it was with a new sense of pride and newfound confidence as I found myself comprehending subjects I had never before understood.    When it came to high school, I was well aware I was out of my field.  No advanced classes, no higher math classes; nothing at all that gave proof of any ability to teach kids at a high school level.  As my son or daughter would come to me with subjects they were having difficulty with, I would tell them with no embarrassment, that I didn't understand it either.  By this time though, they knew what my direction would be for them:  Figure it out.  Slowly read the directions and think it through.  This had been our method since we began and it never changed.  Did I worry they were not going to be prepared for higher education?  Of course, I had concerns, but I also had the idea in my head that if they could read well and think for themselves, they could handle anything.   My oldest, who was homeschooled for two years, graduated from public high school then college, is successfully working for a nationally based accounting firm, is married and proving himself to be a great husband and father of two.  He feels the short time he was at home for school was very helpful in learning how to think, and the importance of being able to teach yourself.   When the first of the two at home went off to college, I held my breath a little.  Would he be able to do a term paper even though we never did any at home?  Would he be able to keep up with all those students who had the bonus of having a teacher?  After graduating from college in 2002, my son applied for a job as assistant manager for a well-known grocery store chain.  Out of approximately 450 applicants, he was chosen for the one position.  In less than one year, he was promoted to District Manager where he currently manages five stores; not in the small hometown area he grew up in, but in Chicago.  His job requires being a people person, which he is.  He is also a devoted husband.   My youngest started college a year early (as did her brother), and I again held my breath.  She was signed up for chemistry and I was well aware of the very minimum science we had studied.  Her GPA of 4.0 at the end of the first semester was exciting, even if it only was for two classes.  But, how would she handle a full load of classes, especially now that she had decided to become a dental hygienist, which required a lot more science?  At the end of her first full year, which included 17 credit hours, she was named to the Deans List.  As impressive as that might sound, it didn't compare to the feeling I had when she did one of her first writing projects.  Her paper was used by the professor; he read it out loud to the class as an example of what he expected.  She was mortified; I was proud.  She graduated in 2005, passed the state exams for certification as a licensed dental hygienist, got married and is successfully employed with a very reputable dentist.    Education is so much like religion.  You are taught based on what people, or institutions decide you need to know.  In education, you can be taught we evolved from apes or created by God; in religion you can be taught whether you qualify to be served Communion, or if everyone (including Judas) has the right to be served; the burden of responsibility of choosing to partake being that of the individual.  Unless we question everything we do and everything we believe, we parents, like our parents, pass down our beliefs about religion and education without a second thought.  I've done both.    I could not be more proud of all three of my children, graduating from public school as well as homeschool, and I stand here today, a more confident woman from what I learned through teaching my children.  I believe it is true that we do not learn until we teach, (kind of like Dr. Phil's method of potty training toddlers).     Homeschooling parents and public school parents who are passionate about their children's future will never jeopardize their future by allowing them to fail.  Whatever the schooling choice is, the children are ours, they are our responsibility (not the school's nor the church), and it requires nothing less than a sacrifice to teach them to walk in the way they should go.    Ironically enough, had my children been in a school system where parents were welcome to address concerns, I'm sure I would never have homeschooled.  (I actually thought people who did that were crazy).  As it turned out, homeschooling was an amazing experience for us; one I will cherish forever.  Do I say thank you to a school who drove me away??  No, instead I say here to all of the school administrators in America who are working with the parents to provide the best education for the students, THANK YOU!  And I say to the teachers who are sacrificing themselves to make a difference in the lives of children; especially those who might not have a nurturing home life, THANK YOU!  THANK YOU!      Being a parent does not qualify one as being a good parent, being a school teacher does not qualify one as being a good school teacher, being a homeschool parent does not qualify one as being a good teacher...and being a preacher does not qualify one as being a good preacher!