Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

You say: "the fact that you demand I not call "sin" "sin" infringes on my beliefs."

If that was my demand, it would infringe on your beliefs.  But that is not what I demand. 

You can call anything you like "sin" & I couldn't care less.  If you did it over a loudspeaker at 3 AM while I was trying to sleep I would object.  Otherwise, your beliefs are your business and of no moment to me.

I object  to the public schools calling certain behavior a "sin" in keeping with your religious beliefs.  This is a country where religion is private and the precepts of your religion, my religion, the branch davidians, the cool-aid gang or any other religions are not supposed to be part of any governmental program.

Why don't you respond to the facts asserted instead of to the agenda that exists only in your own mind?

I never in my wildest drams thought I would homeschool my children.  Now that I am, it is even more surprising to myself that I am an unschooler.  We are not as "radical" as Dayna and her family (we live on a schedule), but I definitely know where she is coming from.  Children know what they live, what they experience.  My children have lived in a home where they are respected.  Respected and also given clear limits.  Our home principals that  we live on are simple and easy for the children to understand.  They are 1) treat others and their property as you would like to be treated, and 2)respect yourself. 

That said, I realize I can not expect that of my children which I do not expect of myself.  I absolutely hold myself to the standard I set for them.  They very rarely misbehave and they are only are 3 and 5.   I also realize I must conduct myself in a manner that shows that I, their mother love and enjoy learning.  I was not always so passionate about learning, even though I was a straight A student when I attended school.  I made grades for the sake of grades out of fear what would happen if I did not get good grades.  I "learned"  things in school, took the test, got an A, and forgot everything.   Now, what did I really learn? 

As a homeschool mom I have willingly enbraced learning many things.  In the past few years I have taken up sewing and made quitlts for my girls.  I now read...even though for the nearly 10 years since highschool I had not.  Now...I love to read.  I garden, I canned food this year, and I bake.  All things which are new to me.  I try to set an example that learning new things can be challenging, but enjoyable and internally rewarding.  There is nothing more motivating to my girls than to be surrounded by loving parents who are participating in their own learning as well.  If I pick up a book during the day, my girls will be inspired to do the same.  If I am involved in my own craft project, they will help and/or start their own project.  When we are out and about I am just as interested in zoos, museums etc. as they are (and I'm not just faking it).  My girls are very involved in activities from gymnastics, swimming, dance, art class...They absolutely would not be able to participate in so many activities if they were in school.  They would be exhausted.

The saddest thing I have seen in this debate is the assumption that if left to make any of their own choices children will do the nothing, screw up their future, and become useless people who can't / won't pull their own weight.

Thank you for your comments.  I too, am very different than my parents because when I became old enough to see myself for who I was, I decided I needed to make a huge change.  I was unsocial, and very narrow minded and I guess a bit nerdy, too.  It probably had alot to do with the extremely abusive childhood we had...that will definitely do a number on you.  I had to unlearn all of that by the time I had my children...thank God, I did. 

You are a mother.  You have  a responsibility to look out for your children.  You cannot hide behind an excuse like "Because of the bullies from my own childhood and the abuse, I am not emotionally strong enough to have such a loud voice.  I am emotionally weak."  That's like admitting that you are so mentally impaired that you will neglect your son's needs rather than go out there and do what's necessary to help them.  I would bet that some of y our boys' fears arise from inhaling your fears every moment of the day.  You've got to get help for y ourself so that your passivity does not poison your children until it's too late for them, if that's not already the case.  Look, you were abused before you decided to have kids.  What's more powerful in life than a mother's love?  Nothing magical is going to enter your life and remove the misery.  You have to do that yourself.  If necessary, start training now to walk 5 miles.  Alot of people do things that terrify them because they have to.  You owe your boys courage.  Courage means acting  despite your fears.  You can feel scared inside, but youju must go out and fight for them and stop feeding their fears.

Also, the kids have to learn how to cope with bullies because the world is full of them.  My kid was assigned a teacher with a bad rep in the 4th grade.  A lot of her friends' mothers agitated to transfer their kids out.  I told her she had a splendid opportunity to learn how to get along with a difficult personality.  She did & ended up liking & understanding the teacher.  Stop encouraging their fears and giving in to your own fears.  Get yourself down to that school and work out a plan for each of your kids.

I think to be educated means to have knowledge, yes, much stored in memory so that you can connect those facts ann see how they fit together.  The last part of being educated is being able to communicate that knowledge and reasoning effectively.  To enable others to understand your conclusions. 

After I wrote it, I realized what I had described was what is called the trivium in classical education: grammar, logic and rhetoric.

A well-rounded education means the knowledge is not just in one field, but in many.  This can also be called breadth of knowlegde.  It is the opposite of "job training" which many today confuse with education.   An education doesn't lead to a job, it sure is useful when you get there though - which is why many $$ successful folks or those who have prestigious jobs with prestigious firms have liberal arts degrees, in addition to those MBA's.

If by smart you mean intelligent, then no, that is certainly a genetic and some nurturing attribute.  You would have to define "make it."   By making it  do you mean self-supporting, or do you mean $$$ affluent, or do you mean content with one' s life, no matter the square footage of the house, stocks inthe portfolio or other outward sign of economic affluence.

If one has the framework of a classical education from liberal arts studies, one can acquire the others, like computers.  Business and psychology are included in the rhetoric and logic parts of the trivium.

To school means to educate through habituation.  Education can be the result - a skill mastered through practice.  They are not synonymous.  Today, schooling can mean the successful warming of a seat for x number of years - definitely not an education.     

Why is it offensive to you?

I have heard numerous public school parents say this along with 'I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU HOMESCHOOL I COULDN'T STAND BEING AROUND MY KIDS THAT MUCH".

Many public school parents (note not ALL) seem to think of public schools as unpaid babysitters. Many public school parents (again not ALL) don't seem to enjoy spending time with their children.

I am sorry if this offends you, but it is the truth.

What I'm "surprised" about it how many people have an opinion on this who don't have children or who have never tried teaching.  ^..^XOXOXO

Are you referring to me? I have taught and I have kids.

other reason I think homeschooling is superior is because the parents LOVE their kids.  When the day is full of hassling, adults are more motivated by love of their kids more than a teacher is by their paycheck.

You are making some huge assumptions here. While I hope most homeschooling parents ( actually, all parents) love their kids, I think it's a leap to say that is THE motivation for homeschooling. I have seen some parents decide to homeschool simply because they do not want to deal with pressure from schools and authorities to make their child attend school, participate in school, or behave in school.

It also insinuates that parents who CHOOSE public schooling or private schooling are not motivated by LOVE when they make that decision. Furthermore, some parents can love their kids to the ends of the Earth and still not be equipped emotionally or intellectually to homeschool them. Homeschooling, in and of itself, is not always superior.

As a former teacher, let me assure you that although I could not have done it for free, the paycheck alone was not enough to motivate me. A local garbage man I knew in my early years of teaching made more money than I did. A teacher can not replicate the love a parent has for a child, but most teachers are motivated by a love of children and a sincere desire to help them. That's why teachers like me would spend weekends at the school building sets for the drama performance, stayed after school for countless hours as the newspaper sponsor, chaperoned every dance (knowing full well that it was late night duty as several parents would "forget" their kids), and even spent a night cruising in a police car until the wee hours because a runaway student had called my home and was suicidal.  It also takes a brave person to teach other people's kids.