Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

Unschooling, or child-centered learning, is not a new fad invented by parents recently. I can't say who first thought of it but the first person to get credit for the idea was Dr. Maria Montessori in the early nineteen hundreds. She spent several years of her life dedicated to The Montessori Approach, opened many schools, and educated many teachers on this method of teaching. In her time she was highly respected and regarded as a miracle worker by contemporaries. This approach is still practiced in schools and classrooms all over the nation today.  I have seen college courses that were developed around this concept as well. It is not a new concept yet it is not  necessarily something everyone is going to know about because it is not mainstream in society. If you are interested, there is a wealth of information to be found on the internet. All you have to do is google Montessori.

I think homeschooling is what society did 100's of years ago.  We are regressing!!!!  It began with parents and family teaching children at home. Those individuals realized, children could get  a "better" education, if their community could get a teacher and an environment to support that learning.  "Walla"  a little red schoolhouse.  Over the years, public schools began to grow.  children were learning more than we could ever imagine was possible.  Now, all of a sudden this generation has decided that being taught at home is a better learning environment!!!  I believe our country is, where it is today, because of the children of many previous generations that attended Public school.  Professionals taugt their children, Parents enhanced that learning.   If parents feel that public schools are filled with violence, drugs, etc.  than take that energy and interest you have and put it in the public schools, work with administration, staff, other students, to help make the public schools a better place for "ALL" children, not pulling your child out to make it better just for them!!!   

I thought this was the land of the free and the home of the brave.  I guess not!!!  According to how the show went and some of the messages I have read we should just let the system do it all at least when they are in the older grades.  I haven't seen a lot of the system that is really working at this point.  History---We had our first of five in public school kindergarten.  She was surrounded by normal kids for the most part.  There were those who were still on the bottle or still had a blanket.  According to the system these children were ready to be taught.  We were told as parents not to teach our child anything it would interfere with the way that they teach.  At the end of a year our daughter had not even learned the whole alphabet.  At teacher conference the teacher told us our daughter had way to much responsibility and we should make her not want to help her sisters and brother as much.

My mother decided that was ridiculous and talked us into putting her into her church's Christian school.  She had to repeat kindergarten because she was so far behind.  Our first two daughters finished  K-1, with the oldest finishing 2nd there.  The kindergarten teacher knew we were moving and were unsure about the schools where we were going so she recommended we home school.  I said, "No way!"  I have a college degree but had felt I could not teach my children.  After much prayer my husband and I decided to give it a try but only for the grade school years, maybe junior high, definitely not high school.  We didn't know  how hooked we would become.  We have home schooled all five to graduation.  We heard all the talk of how our children missed it socially!!   All have been on  mission trips and most of them were a month long.  They have been to Scotland, England, Italy, Jamaica, South Africa, Peru, and Romania.  Our middle daughter was 15 when she went to work in an orphanage in Romania for 7 weeks.

They have a very good grasp of the world outside their world.  Only in a school setting will you be crammed together with those of your age.  Our children fit in well with the young or the old alike.  They have friends in all age groups.  In the midst of homeschooling we doubled our house size.  They learned all the building skills they needed when they were on the mission field or in their own homes.  We did art lessons, basketball(even at the national level),biology, and human anatomy outside our home.  We let them make the choice of homeschooling or high school.  One daughter even went a day with a friend, and came home amazed at how little was done in the classroom.  Is this the way it is everywhere?  Of course not!!  We have personal friends who are teachers.  We weren't willing to take the chance that we would have good teachers and not bad.

Two daughters are married now.  Three of our daughters have gone to Bible School.  Our youngest is our son, and he is in a state university with a 3.85 taking Automotive Technology Management with a minor in Manufacturing.  He is also dyslexic.  We found a facilitator of the Davis Method and he learned to use his dyslexia as the gift it is. He has been amazed at the kids who have been in public school, have full scholarships, and could care less.  He is driving 55 miles one way and paying his own way with the help of a FAFSA loan that he is planning on paying off as soon as he graduates.  By the way he took the SAT and did fine. That kind of testing is not easy for someone with dyslexia. The ones we have talked to in public  school were taught to compensate for it or  they fell through the cracks and are barely able to read or write. Although I as Mom did the majority of the teaching, their Dad taught them the basics of mechanics and carpentry.  Our son has restored a MG midget by using 3 cars to make one, and made a lowered Sonoma extended pick-up truck from two wrecked trucks.                             

     It was a difficult decision to make, but one we look back on and have no regrets.

Our children have turned out well rounded, have a good work ethic, are a joy to be around, and are a benefit to all.  This is not just from our biased opinion, but from outside sources everywhere.  We have been asked how we did it by so many parents.  We could have been the usual two income family with kids and parents going different directions, but we chose to make a sacrifice.  The Lord has honored that and given us terrific children that we are very proud of, and that are now mentoring others in our church.  Homeschooling is NOT for everyone.  It is not easy, but the rewards have been incredible.

"Talk to you kids all you want."

We do, freely, as it is our job and our place as parents. 

"Enroll them in a weekly soccer practice if it backs up your argument better."

We don't really have much to argue about, but we enroll our kids in various things because our children enjoy them.  Don't other people with their children?  Or do they do it to impress other people.

"If you really want to feel convincing, bring Science into the kitchen...no ones really buying it but it may make you feel better."

Again, any activities we choose to do with our children are for their benefit, and not to impress other people.  They learn science in the kitchen, in the playground, at a science museum, and various community events which demonstrate hands-on lab work.  The kitchen, well, it's one of many places my children learn and demonstrate a knowledge and love of science, but they'd go stir crazy if it were the only place.  Wouldn't anyone?

"You cannot recreate the atmosphere of school, the expertise of teacher or the rich experience for children."

I simply do not get this.  Are schools not repeatedly described as places where children learn about "the real world?"  If it's so difficult, in the real world, to recreate the atmosphere of school, then yes, I imagine it is quite difficult.  I do agree.  However many homeschoolers, and unschoolers really have no desire to re-create the atmosphere of school.  If they wanted to do so, they'd just put their children in school.

Every good parent shelters their kids. How many of us are going to encourage our children to hang out with kids who think it is ok to skip classes and go to the back of the school and smoke? How many good parents are going to allow thier child to spend the night at a friends house knowing that there is drinking  ( alcohol) in the house? ANd why give your 15 year old a curfew? WHy not allow her to stay out as long as she wants? Probably because it makes more sense for her to be home and it isn't safe to be out late and whatever else. How many goo dparents are going to take their child to the bar for the evening? EVERY  parent shelters thier kids and probably in differnet ways then one another, but we all do it.

I used to hang out with all kinds of kids, good, rough, and the quiet and the problem with that, my bio mom didn't give a hoot! I could stay at any one else home that I wanted, therefore I was in homes that no 12 year old should have been aloud in. My siblings and I were dragged intot he bars for our evening entertainment, not a good place to be therefore I protect my kids from those influences as much as I possibly can.

Yes, there are SOME homeschoolers who feel teh need to shelter their kids from some of the influneces of the world and really, tehre is absolutely nothing wrong with that. If a child is constantly getting bullied and the schools and parents are doing nothing, then it is up tot he parents of the one getting bullied to step up to the plate, There are many reasons why parents shelter their kids and it is our obligation to shelter them as much as possible using common sense.

I shelter my kids from certain things becauce they are still very young but I have a brain and I am asmart person and I know what I am doing. I teach my kiuds on their level about life and still teach them about love, respect and all. They have had homeless people holding and interacting with them, they have been around smokers, they have been around poor kids, rich kids and those in between, they play with kids of a differnt race, in fact they are the only white kids on the block,LOL,and the neighbor kids are always at our house.  The arguement that parents just want to shelter their kids is not a good arguement in my opinion cause we all do it, just in differnet ways becuse we all have different personalities and life styles. Chances are if you are a smoker, you are not going to care if others smoke in your home, I do not allow it cause we are not smokers and I don't want my kids inhaling, yes, they are goingt o in the outside of the wrold but they don't have to in their home.

People who enjoy going to the bar just for a coke even might not have a problemw ith their kids going in and sitting with them eating a bag of chips, I think bars are disgusting and not the place for kids therefore I refuse to take my kids in one. They are not even allod to sit at the bar area ina nice restaurante. Is that sheltering, probably to some, but that same parent who might judge me for that also shelters their kids from something, they wouldn't be a good parent if they didn't.

There are many reasons to homeschool and becuase we live in a country that it is legal and a success, then parents have hte rigth to decide to choose that option and really it isn't anyone elses business on the why because I just know that the majority of the parents homeschooling do it all for the sake of giving the kids a good education, sheltering them really doesn't have a lot to do with it, maybe a small portion but I believe providing their kids the best education possible is the number one motive.

I encourage parents to follow their hearts and do waht is right for  their kids and i also encourage sheltering their kids to a  certain degree and what we shelter then from is completely up to us as parents.

Ok, The little one is awake and ready for the day to get started, I'm off to spend the day with her, Happy schooling every one, I am in the process of teaching my 3 year old to read, she finally has her name  and a couple other words down pat, doing pretty good at sounding those letters out,heheehehe

My mother was a public school teacher for *many* years at the junior high and some high school levels and I can tell you she spent countless hours and nights on her classes.  My sister-in-law has had many years of experience as a public school kindergarten teacher.  My other sister-in-law teaches nursing students at the local community college in her town.  My brother teaches electronics to at-risk high school students in a poor area of his town.  Because of his efforts, many of his students are not only the first in their families to go to college but also attend the top engineering schools in his state.  So, I can tell you I see both sides of the coin.  To be honest, it's *everyone's* responsibility to make sure that children get a good education:  the children, the parents, the teachers, and the school system.  My mother has seen parents who have not done their job and kids that are lazy; while my brother has seen the opposite.  As for homeschooling, the majority  of the kids I have met are able to "hold their own" in a conversation with adults.  As someone trying to start a family (currently preparing "my nest"), I want the option to choose what's best for my child:  Ohio has a wonderful program where the parents can choose the curriculum (one the options is the Calvert curriculum); can receive one computer per family; take *State* standardized achievement tests; take regular tests and receive regular grades; receive $ per child for educational expenses upon documentation; and log so many hours to a "master" teacher.  It is cheaper for the State to educate a child this way; but it is clearly *not* for everyone (only the committed).  And, as you guessed, my public educator family gets a little "steamed" when I mention this option--even though my views are not a reflection on them.  However, I will again follow what's best for my kids.  By the way, did anyone hear of the Brown family that was mentioned on one of those TV News programs?  (I think it was 20/20.)  The mom was a music teacher.  She *homeschooled* all *five* of her kids.  The time they saved switching classes, etc. was able to be devoted to music practice.  All *five* of her kids earned a place at the Juliard School of Music.  Totally an incredible thing. 

I have read many of the posts, both pro-homeschooling and anti-homeschooling, and I would like to first say it seems, and again, I haven't read all of them, but it seems that those opposed to homeschooling seem to be the most hostile.  I am a homeschooling parent and I in no way am trying to take the job of the public school teacher or say that those who don't homeschool their children don't care as much as the homeschooling parent.  I read a post saying that those who homeschool are "controlling".  That is true, to an extent.  I do want to "control" the anti-Christ atmosphere, violence, drugs, bullying, guns, etc, that my children would be exposed to.  I do want to "control" the kind of education my children get because I then will know if they are being taught evolution instead of creation.  So, if you're saying I am controlling because of those things, then I guess you would be right.  But, if you're eluding that I am controlling their lives, then you'd be wrong.  They are allowed to make choices on their own in areas that they are equipped properly.  They can make choices on what they are wearing that day, but they can't make the choice of wearing a tank top that reveals their chests.  We just don't buy them.  I can't list all the areas where they are allowed to control it themselves but I think you get the picture.  I don't agree with "child directed education".  The people he interviewed aren't a true representation of what homeschoolers really do.  My children are like any other child in that they would love to watch Disney all day long but I "control" their school day and won't allow it.  They have to study in the following areas: math, history, geography, science, language arts, literature, and spelling.  They also have to do their typing and Spanish lessons daily.  Now, do we get it all done every single day?  Nope!  But we don't because life happens.  One day we have to take my mother to the doctor, or one of the kids gets sick and that controls the day.  Or, it's a beautiful day outside and they will play a little longer during their playtime, but they will always make up their work.  We work on a 180 day schedule just like the public school system.  The difference is we don't have the many interruptions by rude, disruptive students that make it impossible for the teacher to teach.  Truthfully, you would have to pay me ten times as much as the public school teacher makes to even walk through the door of a classroom.  I do know their are those teachers that are tenured and really could care less about the students.  Then there are those who do it because they love their job and the kids.  There are those that are just there to get a paycheck.  

 

My son was in public school and was failing.  We took him out to get him caught up.  He was making A's and B's when he went to public high school.  He barely graduated.  He had to go to summer school twice.  The second time we made HIM pay!  He didn't even graduate with his class but he did graduate a couple of weeks later.  He was determined to do it.  I have to partly blame his school, though.  They really had no expectations of him.  They let him slide in every course until he figured they were going to let him get away with making poor grades so he quit trying.  He found out two weeks before he was to graduate, that he wouldn't.  My problem with the school is they had low expectations of him so that's what he lived up to.  He's to blame, but so is the school. 

 

Socialization?  Aren't the students supposed to be learning and not socializing?  If they are doing what they are supposed to do, they really shouldn't be socializing except for lunch, and recess for those that are young.  My children "socialize" with the cashier at the grocery store, or the pediatrician, the teller, etc.  They are learning to converse with all age groups.  One thing one of Dr. Phil's guest said was that homeschoolers only converse with other homeschoolers.  What?  And don't public schoolers do the same?  Except, my chilren play with children that are in public school because we are the only homeschoolers in our neighborhood. 

 

I think we have to take every child individually and decide what's best for him/her.  Right now, we are homeschooling.  Next year?  We'll just take it one year at a time.

 

 

As a substitute teacher I had students whose parents spent all their time gambling. The poor kids often came to school in the same thing they had on the day before because "Mom" had picked them up from school went straight to the casino where she dropped them off at the day care and then picked them up just in time for them to go to school and she could go home and sleep. They never had their homework done. And I imagine school was the only time anyone ever really looked out for them. Public schools were definitely best for them. Luckily all parents are not like that.

 

There are also some students who need public school for various reason. I know one homeschooling family where they homeschool their daughter, but the sons re-entered the public school system in Jr. High so they could play football. They are gifted athletes and the parents intend for them to go to college on football scholarships.

 

Public schools meets the needs of some students

Private school schools meet the needs of other students

And homeschooling meets the needs of those students whose parents are willing to spend the time, money and effort involved in homeschooling.

My kids were in private and public school until the middle of last year. I was a very involved parent. PTO president for 5 years, volunteering in classrooms (my kids and other classrooms), volunteering in the office or cafeteria... I pulled my daughter out of 7th grade private school because we just couldn't afford it anymore. My husband is military and I have a toddler at home so working outside the home wasn't going to happen. My son who was in 4th grade begged me to come home from public school also. We had to really think about it because I really thought the school was good, I mean, I was there alot so I thought I knew it. Well, there was a shooting in the school yard. Not when school was in session but still!!.. There had been 3 kids suspended the week I pulled him out for bringing in some sort of weapon... He was afraid to go to the bathroom because kids were looking under stalls...  All this from the highest performing school in our city!! The best school in our area!! We finally said ok, we would give it a try for him also. Well, I have to say, it was the best move we could have ever done. My daughter came home doing Pre-Algebra and started right in on Algebra (we had asked for this in our 4k private school and they wouldn't do it) Now she is in 8th grade getting ready for Geomatry!! My son came home from 4th grade public school and really didn't know how to write in cursive.. This from a straight A student!!! Needless to say he is writing letters in cursive now!! My kids follow a schedule (for the most part) they take tests, the do projects, they take art and gym classes. They socialize with all kinds of kids not just homeschool kids. Yes, they are pretty well rounded kids. I know what socialization was in the elementary and jr. high level! The couldn't talk in class, be quiet in the halls, no talking at lunch (to loud with all those kids) oh yeah, no running at recess, no playing tag, no dodge ball (someone could get hurt).. I remember what socialization was in highschool also... Name calling, peer pressure, fights, parties with drinking, drugs.... My kids can do without that thank you.... Yes, there are dances and football games... why can't they go to those with their public school friends? I just think that it's crazy to say my kids have to go to public or private highschool for them to make it in life... They will make it and won't have all the pressure to dress sleazy, to have sex, to do drugs!!

I can't speak for all states, but I am fairly certain that none have required lessons or testing.  You listed very few states and there are definitely others that do not require all or most of the things you listed. 

 

A lot of states offer testing as an option, but offer other options such as portfolio assessment by a certified teacher.  Unschoolers easily submit a scrap book of their many activities and learning experiences over the year to abide by that regulation.  Unschoolers likely go beyond the required number of hours of instruction, so I don't see that as a problem. 

 

Unschoolers live in the world, and have to abide by law like everyone else. 

 

BTW, most states do not have homeschooling laws, they have regulations.