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Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

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Created on : Friday, November 17, 2006, 12:57:50 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Parents want the best for their children, but what’s the best way to educate them? Dr. Phil’s guests face off in a debate about whether to school, homeschool or unschool. Dana and her husband, Joe, call themselves radical unschoolers. They say education happens as a side effect of life, and they don’t believe in tests, curriculums or grades. Are their three kids learning what they need to know? Then, RaeAnn says public schools are death traps and wants to homeschool her children. Her husband, Steve, says their kids are safer at school than they are at home. Can this couple reach a compromise? Plus, Nicole feels like an outcast at 26. She says she hated being homeschooled, and couldn’t relate to other kids. Share your thoughts here.

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November 27, 2006, 8:50 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: emieloo

I'm sorry, but I won't sacrifice my children's education/welfare/lifestyle/christianity for someone else's child.  I have volunteered in the public school and would still do so if it was allowed (it's not because my children don't go there).  However, I won't lay my children on the altar of public school to save others.  That's just ridiculous.  My responsibility IS my children.  I have to worry about my own children first and foremost.  To say that I should lump my kids (that they Lord gave ME to raise) in with other children (that they Lord gave to THEIR parents) is absurd. 

Your view is what is wrong with society today!! what ever happened to "all for one, and one for all".  You use the word "Lord" in your writing, so I am sure your aware that God sacrificed himself for "all" children not just for "His" children.  My statement did NOT read you must put your child out to be slaughtered.  I worry about MY children first also, and I have raised three beautiful young girls, I want to teach them that, I as a parent, do not know it all, but I will be their to guide them through as many expereinces as I can.  Some will be good and others will be bad. 

 
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November 27, 2006, 8:53 am PST

teach them to hate

Quote From: four_x_a_mama

AMEN! Half the reason we homeschool is to shelter our children from societys views. "If it feels good, than do it" seems to be the motto. Well, we read our Bible, and we believe it.  My children have learned to accept ALL people, but they ABSOLUTLY DO NOT have to accept the sin they commit. And homeschooling allows my children to grow up knowing right from wrong. They dont have to face contradiciting opinions about God and evolution. They will learn about the theory, but they will also know that it is just that - a theory.

I feel sorry for your kids who will be cut off fromknowing some people who might well enrich their lives.  I'm old enough to remember a time when there was little mixing between black & white people.  When I entered jr. high school, I encountered my first 2 black  teachers & one of them was gay (as I realized later). He was very demanding academically and in terms of student manners.  But, he was such a fine teacher that everybody wanted to earn his approval.  We worked harder and achieved more with him because he was a born teacher.  I don't care how he held his hand, he taught me the dignity of good manners and decorum.  I'll always remember him.  I also realized that blacks could be educated, cultured human beings, which was something new to me.  Thank god I got a chance to be exposed to these 2 teachers.  How sad that your kids will not.
 
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November 27, 2006, 8:55 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: julie1418

Thank you. Again, I always appreciate the support!

 

Some people definitely get into teaching for the wrong reasons. The summers off seem nice, but I was single when I taught, and I ended up always needing to find a temporary job for the summer. Those who are in it for the vacations are in for a rude awakening. If you don't LOVE teaching, the ten other months will seem like a life sentence!

 

The only way we are going to get better teachers is to make teaching more attractive. More money is part of the equation, but there is so much more. My middle school students would ask me why I wanted to teach; they would remind me that the money wasn't great, I wasn't really respected, and I had to deal with some pretty horrible behaviors.  LOL! They would ask if I just could not do anything else (Nothing like teaching middle school for a few years to keep your ego in check!). They understood very well the public perception of teachers.

 

We need a real commitment to get the disruptive and violent kids out of mainstream classrooms. Average children should be able to learn in a safe environment. All the wonderful, hands-on things the homeschooling parents speak of, teachers can replicate or simulate when the children in the room know how to behave. Teaching is a JOY when you can get really active and watch the sparks fly.

 

Just as homeschoolers feel misunderstood, so do teachers. Teachers have the added burden of not really being able to defend themselves because we have to protect the privacy rights of all children. One poster (a thousand or so back) mentioned how the school did NOTHING to stop the class bully. What he did not know was that the school cannot reveal any information about the bully. If a child is diagnosed with ANY kind of learning disability or exceptionality, the school cannot suspend the child for more than ten total days per school year without a hearing - this is a federal law. Expulsion for ESE kids is next to impossible. The child must be arrested and convicted of a crime to leave the school.

 

I left education to stay home with my kids, but to be honest, I was ready to go. I took it all too personally. It was very hard to be blamed for things for which I had zero control. I was at the point where I could not turn on the news because I could not listen to another anti-public school, anti-teacher broadcast.

Indeed, students' privacy must be respected.

It was not too long ago I was privy to some information about a child who was the chief tormentor of my daughter.  This young man's father committed suicide, and he was repeatedly told, either spoken or unspoken, that he was the cause!  What child would not be damaged emotionally and in other ways, and seek out for other people to lash out his feelings?

My heart ached excruciatingly for this young man.  Even before we found out this information, we knew there had to be some reason this child acted this way, and because I teach my children about grace (not synonymous with "doormat"), outside of the school atmosphere they would smile and greet this youngster with warmth.  Seeing him smile back touched me so deeply I can't describe the well of tears I had to force back.  He must have been surprised to see the mom of the child he had harassed being friendly towards him.  Nobody liked this kid at school, due to his behaviour, and the vicious circle would continue in that atmosphere. 
 
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November 27, 2006, 9:09 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: dixie5

I am very comfortable making it because I deal with people who voice their opinion without seeing all sides. When people tell me they think public school is the best for our children, I always ask, have you ever visited a Homeschool? I always get this answer "well No But".
I don't feel like you can give a honest opinion unless you know all sides.
I laugh at them not because  their opinion is different, but because they haven't done their home work.  Now you let someone who has visited both the public school and several homeschools give me their opinion and I will respect their opinion no matter what it is.

So you know for a fact that every audience member who voted that public school was better has never visited a home school family or know a home school family?
 
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November 27, 2006, 9:12 am PST

Education comes from many places

I am a museum educator in NYC, and am currently working on an exhibit that is presented to 14 different groups of students grade 8-12 everyday.  By next September, we will have reached approximately 100,000 of the 1.8 million students in the city's public school system, as well as students in the private and charter schools in the city and in the tri-state area.  Our goal is to help students experience the exhibit on an educational level, and to pique their intellect on the specific area of history that is presented to them.  Without the support of the public school system and the teachers willing to take their students on the subway or the unreliable school bus system for a 90-minute interactive lesson, our program would never reach the minds of the students that we are fiercely dedicated to reaching.  Our museum does offer guided tours to the public, but the direct interaction between museum educator and student only comes from the private education experiences offered to the schools that contact us.  How many home-schooled and "unschooled" (a term I have never heard before and am frankly appalled that it exists) children are missing out on such an opportunity to learn among their peers about a topic they could never hear about in such depth from a textbook?  Bringing your children to a museum or gallery or theater house is essential to their overall education, but how could a parent possibly think that they know everything there is to teach their own child?  Unless they are a trained educator themselves, then maybe their lack of trust in teachers and school administrators is only a fault of their own, and not the system that they are so quick to judge.  Schools everywhere are imperfect, whether in the public or private sector.  Education should come from all aspects of life, but leaving out the so-called "prison" of the school building or a formalized system such as museum education will definitely affect the child on a fundamental level.  Being an active parent in your child's education is vital to their growth and development, but taking the reins isn't always the best choice for the child.
 

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November 27, 2006, 9:13 am PST

My thoughts, exactly

Quote From: painterse

I personally thought the 'debate' that I witnessed on Dr. Phil was ridiculous.  Obviously, it's Dr. Phil's show and he can stack the deck any which way he wants on his show.  However, as a homeschool parent, I thought the representation of homeschooling was pathetic.  It's just like when different cable news shows put on a token 'Christian' and they put some whack job who everyone knows is going to come off like a looney toon, but America's going to think that's what the Bible believing Christians think.  That's what happened on Dr. Phil.  Where was a typical homeschool parent or representative who could spew out the statistics on the success of homeschooling? 

 

I am a licensed educator who taught for many years in public school.  I am certified to teach talented and gifted children as well.  I saw what the North Carolina schools had to offer my child on a daily basis.  I saw all the 'expertise and socialization' that Dr. Phil spoke of on his show.  I saw it all, and we decided that we will homeschool our children. 

 

I saw the love of learned snuffed out of children with the excessive focus on 'No Child Left Behind' and the testing that ensues from that type of propaganda.  I saw bright children bored to death while the children who struggled getting all of the extra programs and attention.  The smart children can hang on while we bring up the rear.  It's not the teachers' faults.   They bust their butts to do the best they can.  It's a numbers game and I just don't want to sacrifice my children for the rest. 

 

Some people don't have the choice to homeschool, but that doesn't mean that those of who are willing to sacrifice a second paycheck should be made to be the villian.  We catch enough flack from the family and friends around us about our financial choices/sacrifices, we don't need it from strangers. 

 

I expect a better debate where everyone is prepared to bring their best.  We all know that no one is going to change anyone's mind, but if both sides are well prepared, it will be a good show. 

 

 Don't expect such a show from Dr. Phil.  I daresay he never visited this topic in his own mind once that show was over.  He won't dream of reading this board regarding his own show and righting an obvious disservice to millions of parents who believe in "Getting Excited About Their Lives"  in a way that takes their own families' best interests to heart.
As for the testing problem that you refer to, in the eighties and early nineties, before the testing began, schools turned out so many uneducated graduates, that our population is woefully ignorant.  There was no way to make sure that schools were teaching the kids anything at all.  My freshman American History class covered.
1. The Leopold and Loeb murder case
2. The Kennedy assassination
3.The Cold War (to exhaustion - no one could ever repeat the definition to the teacher's satisfaction)
4. The two Atom bombs from WWII
5.  The basic outline of our three branches of US gov't., and the Bill of Rights
 
It is true that no. 5 represented real, relevant subject matter, but we did it again, senior year in Civics.  It represents subject matter for government, not history class.  I promise you, I could not have passed any kind of true history exam.  We learned nothing (and neither does anyone else) about the sacrifices and true events of the founding of this nation.  I have learned so much more, just from reading well-researched historical fiction as an adult, than any classes in any school, anywhere.  As for English class, my kids are learning so much more grammar and vocabulary, since they have to pass a test, that their junior high classes actually went back to diagramming sentences.  I'm just shocked that their teacher had the expertise to conduct such a basic "old-school" exercise.   I understand the criticisms against the standardized tests, but what other way is there to see if schools are teaching anything? 
 
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November 27, 2006, 9:13 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: alasandra2003

I really hope you are not a teacher.

 

does these people have is awful grammar. It should be do these people have. The rest of your post has errors in it too but I don't feel like re-writing it.

 

If you graduated from public school it's obvious your English Teacher's didn't do a great job.

 

Homeschooled children do not miss out on friendships what a stupid idea. They play with the kids in their neighborhood, they email and use MySpace and YouTube to keep in touch with friends, they go to the mall, the skating rink etc and hang out.

 

Homeschoolers are not left behind, academically or socially. Do some research.

Honestly people - can we debate without correcting each others spelling?  Any legitimate point you are trying to make is missed when you react in this manner.
 
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November 27, 2006, 9:15 am PST

Right You Are

Quote From: tinkerbell123

Your view is what is wrong with society today!! what ever happened to "all for one, and one for all".  You use the word "Lord" in your writing, so I am sure your aware that God sacrificed himself for "all" children not just for "His" children.  My statement did NOT read you must put your child out to be slaughtered.  I worry about MY children first also, and I have raised three beautiful young girls, I want to teach them that, I as a parent, do not know it all, but I will be their to guide them through as many expereinces as I can.  Some will be good and others will be bad. 

You are so right.  The other writer has no concern over the future of this country.  It's all "me first".  If we're not careful, this could leads even further behind until we are a third world nation in terms of education.
 
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November 27, 2006, 9:17 am PST

Homeschool Success

 We have home educated all EIGHT of our children.  Six have graduated from High School and are all living what the vast majority of Americans would call a successful life. One of our older children is now an Assistant Distric Attorney for Dallas County Texas.  Before we started I thought that I would never educate my kids at home because I had a very successful (National Merit ), rewarding time during high school.  Through various life circumstances we ended up homeschooling even BEFORE we knew that we had a child with Klinefelters Syndrome.  This is a chromosomal disorder like Downs.  It took one entire school year at 9 years old to teach him the alphabet. We had to teach him how to talk, listen, skip, jump rope, etc... We did over six years of neurological exercises.  That child has now earned a 3.7 GPA at Texas A&M University without any help.  Anyone who has had a diabled child in the public school system knows that this could NEVER have happened had he been "helped by the experts".  Parents have a unique ability to know how to reach the mind of their child.  This is why we can teach them faster and better than the "best of the best" teachers that are strangers to our child. 
 
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November 27, 2006, 9:23 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: tinkerbell123

You obviously did not understand the Point.  WHERE were your parents when all this was going on.  Parents must be involved in their childs education and how long ago was this?  It's unfortunate that your experience was bad, I guess you will have to keep your kids away from everything bad that you experienced in your generation!!!

Believe me some of these things are still going on now.  I have seen it.  I suppose this parent could get involved in their childs education - but then that would mean not allowing this to continue and homeschooling.  I fought hard for my children's education in the public school system, during a class size debate, a member of the administration told me right in front of a PTA meeting that if I did not agree with the decisions the school was making, homeschooling was definately an option. (38 kids in a classroom is too many in my opinion).  I kept my kids in the system, but I often look back at all of the work I have done, volunteering, PTA meetings, help with homework, etc.  and wonder if it might have been easier just to teach them myself!
 
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