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Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

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Created on : Friday, November 17, 2006, 12:57:50 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Parents want the best for their children, but what’s the best way to educate them? Dr. Phil’s guests face off in a debate about whether to school, homeschool or unschool. Dana and her husband, Joe, call themselves radical unschoolers. They say education happens as a side effect of life, and they don’t believe in tests, curriculums or grades. Are their three kids learning what they need to know? Then, RaeAnn says public schools are death traps and wants to homeschool her children. Her husband, Steve, says their kids are safer at school than they are at home. Can this couple reach a compromise? Plus, Nicole feels like an outcast at 26. She says she hated being homeschooled, and couldn’t relate to other kids. Share your thoughts here.

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November 27, 2006, 9:55 am PST

Museum open to the PUBLIC

Quote From: beamers

I am a museum educator in NYC, and am currently working on an exhibit that is presented to 14 different groups of students grade 8-12 everyday.  By next September, we will have reached approximately 100,000 of the 1.8 million students in the city's public school system, as well as students in the private and charter schools in the city and in the tri-state area.  Our goal is to help students experience the exhibit on an educational level, and to pique their intellect on the specific area of history that is presented to them.  Without the support of the public school system and the teachers willing to take their students on the subway or the unreliable school bus system for a 90-minute interactive lesson, our program would never reach the minds of the students that we are fiercely dedicated to reaching.  Our museum does offer guided tours to the public, but the direct interaction between museum educator and student only comes from the private education experiences offered to the schools that contact us.  How many home-schooled and "unschooled" (a term I have never heard before and am frankly appalled that it exists) children are missing out on such an opportunity to learn among their peers about a topic they could never hear about in such depth from a textbook?  Bringing your children to a museum or gallery or theater house is essential to their overall education, but how could a parent possibly think that they know everything there is to teach their own child?  Unless they are a trained educator themselves, then maybe their lack of trust in teachers and school administrators is only a fault of their own, and not the system that they are so quick to judge.  Schools everywhere are imperfect, whether in the public or private sector.  Education should come from all aspects of life, but leaving out the so-called "prison" of the school building or a formalized system such as museum education will definitely affect the child on a fundamental level.  Being an active parent in your child's education is vital to their growth and development, but taking the reins isn't always the best choice for the child.
I don't quite understand how it is that you don't understand, being a museum educator, that the museum is open to the public!  You should know that frequently homeschool groups set up the very same tours that the public school system does, and receive the tours in the same way.  We recently went on a tour studying minerals and rocks.  They had a guide/educator and they EVEN had the opportunity to touch many rocks and were able to learn more about animals and insects then they had already learned.  They then had free reign over the museum.  The same one we have gone to many times.  The very musuem that my children love to go to and we do often.   People like you seem to think we keep our children tucked away safely inside our homes.  Do you not think that I would go crazy if we did that?  How many public school students do you know have had the opportunity to sit in the hospital waiting room when their friends are sick, or their grandparents are dying, or all the other things that happen to us, during regular school hours.  My children are learning the academic courses that we know are necessary for life, even some that aren't, but they are also learning how to be compassionate and to be there for their loved ones at anytime!  Not just after school hours.  They are learning that if someone needs help, we go to them.  Right then, not when the school bell rings.  You see, there is so much more to homeschooling than you know.  Homeschooled students learn life experiences.  Not the ones that involve drugs, sex behind the bleachers, STDs from sex-education class, how to roll a joint, how to talk about the girl with the big ears on My Space........so forth and so on.  Before you start judging how we teach our children, you should educate yourself on homeschooling.
 
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November 27, 2006, 9:56 am PST

Just looking at the poll ...

This discussion came to my attention through others who appear to be upset on both sides of the debate. To me, the frustration and anger does not need to be addressed to people who hold differing views, but to the host of the show for choosing sides.

 

Education in our country used to be directly guided by the parents of the child. While big government thought it necessary to step in and show us all a 'better way' - and likely due to some of the children who were not getting what bureaucrats thought was a proper education, we are saddled with a very limited choice of education now in our country.

 

While we are a homeschooling family and the choice is made YEARLY by the children, we are not so naive to think that all should or must be homeschooled. For our family it has afforded flexibility, travel, learning time, entrepreneurial endeavors, time to bond and grow in our Faith, it may not be what is right for every student nor every family. It would be arrogant of me to think all who place their child in public school, private school or any traditional setting are neglecting their child. For us, it would be wrong, for others it is not.

 

Homeschooling in our family has produced three young adults (two graduates and one remaining high school student) who have three qualified for early college admission, one who is Entrepreneurial, one who has a heart for Mission work and one who is deeply interested in Classical Music and Art. All have bloomed in their own area of focus. They all three “think outside the box” and enjoy having the time to pursue their passions.

 

Much like their public schooled peers, they struggle with shortcomings. All young adults will have graduated high school having ‘missed SOMETHING” so to label a home educated student with that stigma is a grave over generalization. Have we taken a look at ALL homeschoolers in comparison to ALL non-homeschoolers? It is impossible! It would be like making a generality based on RACE! THAT is certainly inappropriate - just as any general statement about homeschooling.

 

In our family, we homeschool with accountability, not to a State alone, but we answer to a Higher Authority (to quote Hebrew National Hot Dogs). We feel that we were granted the Blessing of these children so we should test them, tweak their curriculum to suite each child’s learning style, give progress reports, report cards, social activities, challenges, make them get jobs, put them in athletics and so on. Would I judge any homeschooling family that did differently. I would hope not to be so arrogant. I am not the Judge. I am a parent of only my own children.

 

So in short, fine, choose a side. Then stay on that side and do the best you can with your choice. But shame on you if you choose a side and then think you are the only one who is right and put down others for how they choose to educate their children.  Shame on anyone who would call themselves unbiased, yet would make a sweeping generalization about a sub-sect of society.

 
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November 27, 2006, 9:58 am PST

Me First

Quote From: janiesmith

I'm sorry I'm selfish but I am not for keeping my child in the public school system for the reasons you have stated.  I will keep my children in the public school system if I feel it is the best possible place for them and for that reason only.  What I feel  is best for my child may not be what you feel is best for yours.

If the public school system is to be what it can be, that can only be accomplished by all of us joining to make it so.  Running to isolation is the behavior of the week and narrow minded.
 
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November 27, 2006, 10:01 am PST

Fitting In

Quote From: winterwarmth

The divorce rate is 51% last I read.    Homeschooling must have been more popular than I originally assumed these past 20-30 years!

Homeschoolers don't corner the market on social isolation.  I talked with a great deal of people who at many points in their life were either harassed, bullied, or just flat out "didn't fit in".

I graduated highschool quite unprepared for the refreshing reality of how pleasant the real world climate was.  I made many friends and don't know anyone anymore from my school years. Likewise, many friends of mine who had nary a bad time at school.
You are quite correct to say that those who do not fit into social classes and cliques suffer because of it.  The answer, however, is to work to elimante those things.  Scrapping the system leaves children in the great void of "home school".
 

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November 27, 2006, 10:02 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: tinkerbell123

Yes, you should have a say in how those parents educate their children!!! that is my point!  I know how much my children have learned.  I sat everyday after school for twenty five years helping my children, with homework, answering questions about "cliques" and first loves, helping them make choices about a plethora of topics.  I spent many days at board of education meetings, volunteering, to help make the "Public" school a better and safer place for all kids.  And if you are seeing these things happen at your local school.  You should be talking to teachers, parents, administration about ways to help in this situation, rather than just complaining and pulling your children out of this environment.  That teaches those kids that if their is something you are not comfortable with, than just walk away, instead of fighting for what you think is right.

 My kids have many friends at school whose parents are as involved as you and I are, but they are in the minority.  Most parents only contact the teachers to complain that the students have homework.  This is the background of the kids who are coming out of public schools, and I think it is laughable to say that this is better than what is being produced by homeschooling parents.
Many of these parents have tried repeatedly to improve their own schools before making the hard decision to teach them at home.  Most of them didn't just give up.  They are providing an example of resourcefulness and not being willing to allow a bad situation to just rock along and accepting unacceptable consequences.

 
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November 27, 2006, 10:04 am PST

Unrealistic Educations

It's just so hard for many of us who went to traditional schools and who send our kids to schools to get our minds around the alternatives.  One way is to think of homeschooling as just another type of private school.  We may not want to send our kids to certain types of private schools  -- for example, an ultra-conservative Christian academy, a military discipline school, or an ultra-liberal school -- but most of us would agree that those are educational choices that should be made by the parent.  Our American philosophy underscores the freedom of choice in these situations, rather than insisting on government schools.

I'm a homeschooling parent of three adolescent boys.  They complete their studies in about three hours a day.  That leaves them with so much free time to pursue other interests.  They're active in scouting, they built a halfpipe for skating, they play electric guitar in a band, they hang out with neighborhood kids (especially cute girls!).  The free time leads to what I call "unschooling" -- they are in a learning rich environment and their minds have the leisure time to become inquisitive about things.  Just yesterday, my 12 year old was "bored" so he learned several variations of the pentatonic scale.  I'm absolutely positive he wouldn't have done that as part of a traditional school day.

With that said, of course there are homeschoolers who are not getting a very good education.   The real issue is how does that compare to the number of publicly educated students who are not learning.  It's easy to point fingers at homeschoolers and insist on more standards or oversight, but solving the crisis in public education in this country is a much more difficult problem.

 

 
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November 27, 2006, 10:05 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: tinkerbell123

Yes, you should have a say in how those parents educate their children!!! that is my point!  I know how much my children have learned.  I sat everyday after school for twenty five years helping my children, with homework, answering questions about "cliques" and first loves, helping them make choices about a plethora of topics.  I spent many days at board of education meetings, volunteering, to help make the "Public" school a better and safer place for all kids.  And if you are seeing these things happen at your local school.  You should be talking to teachers, parents, administration about ways to help in this situation, rather than just complaining and pulling your children out of this environment.  That teaches those kids that if their is something you are not comfortable with, than just walk away, instead of fighting for what you think is right.

So parents should keep their children in a sub-standard public school and "fight" to change the school. Which will probably start to see some improvements around the time your children graduate. Of course it'll be too late for your kids, but you can pat yourself on the back that you sacrificed your children's education in order that some other child will get a better education or safer school.

 

Sorry you owe it to your own kids to provide them with the best education possible, they do not deserve to be sacrificed in order for you to feel good about yourself by "fighting to make the public schools better".

 

Also what makes you think homeschoolers don't work for better public schools, more school choices ect. ?

 
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November 27, 2006, 10:06 am PST

homeschool

I am in my first year of homeschooling and never realized the debate about homeschooling until this year.  I chose to homeschool for many reasons.  One of which is convenience.  I know that some people have said that children need to know the responsibility of getting to the bus on time and turning homework in on time, well just because kids are homeschooled doesn't mean that they don't have to do these things.  As a parent we can choose what time our kids get up in the morning and we can choose punishments for assignments not being turned in on time.  One of the problems with Dr. Phil's show is that he really didn't give the homeschoolers a chance to talk.  This is the first time that I have really been disappointed in Dr. Phil's show.  He was specifically talking about unschooling and not traditional homeschooling.  If people understood what unschooling truly was they may not have been so hard on the family.  I also believe Dr. Phil isn't as informed on this subject as he would like us to think he is.  Maybe next time he would consider putting together a better show.
 

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November 27, 2006, 10:08 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: bree79

I just want to reply to the teacher who thinks that the school system is teaching the kids the right curriculum. Why is it that so many kids can't read well or do BASIC math skills. I have been in grocery stores, and restaurants and alot of kids look at you with a blank look on there face when you want them to make change for you. I think in the public system to many kids get passed by. If they are smart great they do well, if they are having trouble oh sorry. I know at home that my kids can read, spell, write, and do math and they will know it well before we move on to a new subject  my children will have to write the same govt exams as public school kids so I guess we will find out then which is better.
 I took two minutes to show the cashier at our grocery store how to count back change.  He was so grateful.  Older customers, especially, appreciate seeing their change counted correctly.  They sometimes complain of a cashier's incompetence if they can't do it.  Now this young man can shine with his customers.  How long would it have taken a teacher in middle school to teach this important skill?  None of mine did it.  My mom taught me to do it.  Oh, yeah, and she taught me to read phonetically before I ever reached school.  She found many gaps in my schooling and filled them in.  Modern schools are not preparing most parents to recognize, much less take up the slack when kids don't know something.
 
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November 27, 2006, 10:09 am PST

Choice?

Quote From: janiesmith

I thought a big part of democracy  was about choice?

Certainly democracy is NOT about choice.   Democracy is one form of government.  Choice exists in ALL forms of government.  It is a question of who is permitted to make that choice.  Therein lies the democracy.  However, without strong and effective public schools, the will soon be no democracy.  In this country, we are drifting toward an uneducated theocracy.  I suggest you hope that your church is the one making the rules for all of us.  Then you would be content indeed.
 
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