Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

This is in reference to the poster who suggested homeschoolers will not learn responsibility.  

It's a myth to think that homeschoolers do not participate in activities which require responsiblity.  For example, my children participate in three weekly groups which require work at home to be done prior to the meeting.  We have an academic co-op on Tuesdays, a spiritual co-op on Wednesdays, and are avid Girl Scouts meeting every Thursday.  We have deadlines, and times to report to specific places, just like everyone else.  They (I have two daughters) also have played competitive sports - which require living by a clock (getting places on time), teamwork, and practice at home.  I think that all requires just a bit of responsibility, from the kids.

I take the stance I do because with all the rabid pro-"home schoolers" out there, an opposite voice should be heard that is equally radical.  In point of fact, I have no dispute with anything you say here.  I do have great trepidation for the future of this country if public schools are abandoned by many.  There are, I am sure, examples in which home school is justifiable.  Those cases are rare though and people should be required to make a legitimate case for taking this approach with a child.  IN MY EXPERIENCE, home school is usually the choice of the religious right.  Always remember that the moral majority is neither moral nor the majority.

(yes, there is some tongue in cheek there)

Homeschoolers also arrange for the same tours the public, private, and charter schools get. I should know I arranged the tour for my PEAK homeschool group last year. We went to the Gulf Coast Exploreum and toured the Pompeii Exhibit.

http://www.exploreum.net/

 We were there along with some public & private schools. And I have to say that the lady in charge of educational tours was a pleasure to work with and very supportive of homeschoolers.

We also took a Art History course the George Ohr museum offered specifically for homeschoolers.

http://www.georgeohr.org/

And have been on educational tours at the Walter Anderson Museum.

http://www.walterandersonmuseum.org/

If your museum doesn't offer the same tours to homeschoolers they should be ashamed of themselves.

Not for anything but many of you are arguing over things you really do not know very much about. Each family is different. God guides each family to raise their children a certain way. God guides each family to educate their own children a certain way. We are not all to conform to what the "world" thinks we are to do. The "world" does not dictate my family. The "world" has no control over the raising of my children. God gave my child to my husband and me and we are doing what we feel GOD led to do. And that decision was to homeschool beginning at the age of 3. Our daughter began reading fluently at this time and I was very concerned she would become easily bored in public school.

We have homeschooled ever since. At the age of 13yo my daughter scored post high school in EVERY subject! She has just taken the PSAT and is awaiting the results. I have NO doubt in my mind that she will have done quite well in every subject! She has a great desire to continue her education after high school. This is a child who has a "go get 'em" attitude. This is a child who has a great love of learning.  This is a child who doesn't feel "pressured" to conform to the "world" but instead feels the freedom to become her very own person, with her own likes and dislikes, her own self! She is the person she is meant to be. She will become the woman she is meant to become.

And I might add, my husband and I get the blessing of spending more quality time with our child and we love every minute of it.

My child has been and still is involved in many things! She has many interests! Her schedule keeps me hopping daily...........and I wouldn't change it for the world. We also have time in our schedule to have "down time", time to relax and spend time together doing whatever we desire. My child has been involved in ballet, sports of all kinds, music- choir, audition only ensemble, voice lessons, guitar lessons, music theory. She also dabbles some with the piano. She sings regularly for our church. She is the vice president of the homeschool honor society of a large city. She is on the large city homeschool yearbook staff. She is very involved in our church. She also helps me as a teen coordinator of a local homeschool group. She does volunteer work for our local place of residence at the library. She does inner city volunteer work for the Mission (homeless shelter) and the children's home. She has adopted a "widow" at our church. She also helps teach the younger kids at church.  We have also been to volunteer at nursing homes.

This child can socialize with anyone! From babies to the elderly. I don not worry about "socialization". She has friends. She goes to the movies, eats out, goes shopping, has friends stay over for all night gal-gab-a-thons. She is well socialized. And she gets to see me in action working with the less fortunate. She is LEARNING how to deal with ALL types of people from ALL walks of life! If she were in a public school for 8 hours a day and then given 3+ hours of homework she would miss out on all the "real life" learning that goes on daily. And with all this learning she will be blessed and be able to bless.

Is homeschooling for everyone? No. It's not. However, as a parent I feel that is MY decision to make and not anyone else's.

I have UNschooled for a time too (in elementary years). This worked WONDERFULLY as well. However, when I saw what interest my daughter had I realized I needed to step up and change our strategy a bit for her to be able to fulfill her future goals and dreams. UNschooling is not wrong! It does work!  Is UNschooling for everyone? No. It's not.

As far as the public and private schools go..... I have friends who are teachers. They have their work cut out for them. Little funding. little support. LOTS of riff-raff and danger!!!  They need our prayers, not our judgement.

I also have college professor friends and they have seen many kids who can not handle college life because they were graduated even though they did not learn the basics. Do you know how many people can't tally up change without a computer telling them how much to give back to the customer? 

For some the public school sytem works. For some the private school system works. For others UNschooling or homeschooling works. Why such a debate? Each child is different!! They don't all learn the same. they don;t all have the same capabilities. Some have special handicaps that don't get addressed in one school but do get addressed in another.

Why must we get ugly to one another simply because we may be led to raise our children differently, to educate our children differently? This ugliness is judgement and I refuse to judge another. It's not my place!

Pick and choose your battles wisely. Is this really a battle worth fighting? Especially since you may not be educated in the actual facts of each style of learning?

My daughter would like to add something here to below will be my daughter's words. DO not flame her! She is a teenage who is full of wisdom. And she can speak from EXPERIENCE!

I am 15 and I've been homeschooled since kindergarten. I am currently in 10th grade, but should be in 9th (I have a late birthday and the public schools would have made me wait until I was nearly 6 before starting kindergarten). My current courses include Chemistry, Algebra 2, World Lit, and U.S . History. So far I have only received A's in high school. I have been reading this thread and I honestly feel that many, if not most, of the responses have been slightly ignorant and closed-minded. I feel that these types of responses have been coming from all angles. There have been posts by public school supporters, homeschool supporters, and unschool supporters that have been stubborn and ignorant to the true facts. I do not argue that homeschooling is the only way to go- if I did, that would be naive since I have 2 more years until graduation. I think that each family has to make the choice to choose the best modes of education for their children. I have seen many homeschooling families who shouldn't be homeschooling... And some of you are correct on the fact that some homeschoolers aren't the most socially capable people. However, I know plenty of public schooled kids who are much worse socially than any homeschooler I've ever met. Our city's public school system is VERY POOR and many teachers are simply unable to give these students the proper education they need to do well in their lives. A lot of you think your public schools are filled with good education and aren't riddled with crime. That may be true, but there are many schools across this nation (including most in my city) that are filled with violence, gangs, poor education, and students that are unwilling to learn partly because of the poor examples set by their parents, older siblings, and even their teachers. I don't believe there is one answer to the "Great School Debate." This is the United States, and we are free to make the decisions about education that best suit our families. Debating about "who's right" and "who's wrong" is pretty pointless in the end. I know plenty of students who have graduated from the public school system who have gone on to pursue their careers and have been fruitful in their actions. And I know plenty of students who have been homeschooled and have gone on to pursue their careers and have been fruitful in their actions. In the end, it doesn't matter where you come from. It only matters where you want to go. You could have the best education in the world, but if you don't pursue your goals and actually want to succeed, then, yes, you're probably not going to get very far. And that is one of the pros of homeschooling. When the parents properly educate themselves on the facts about college, scholarships, and other opportunities, then they have an incredible opportunity- to prepare their children for adulthood and give them a one on one education. I don't care how good your public school teacher is, he or she simply doesn't have the capabilities to provide one on one attention to every student in his or her class. Homeschooling parents are given the opportunity to mine their children's talents and interests, and teach them to want to learn. And when they actually want to learn, they grow to succeed. However, there are homeschooling parents who simply don't have a clue about college applications and scholarship essays and the SAT. They can become a stumbling block to their children if they do not properly educate themselves about these matters.

My faith as a Christian is very important to me. I am a leader in my church's youth group and many youth and children in the church look to me for advice and guidance. Above all else, my faith is the most important thing in my life. As I get older, I appreciate the opportunity homeschooling has given me to learn in a Christian environment. Even in our youth group, I see some of the public school kids conform to the world, and they are so focused on how their school peers see them that they discard all traces of religion when they go to school. They go see movies, listen to music, and visit websites that have content that is completely inappropriate. It seems that many public schooled kids are so focused on fitting in and being popular that they will do anything for attention. I know there are some students who rise above all of that pettiness, but many do not. That brings me to the girl featured on Dr. Phil's show on Friday. She complained that being homeschooled made her feel inadequate and she missed out on "hating the girl with the purple hair." Personally, this person totally is missing the point. She is basing her happiness and her self-esteem on going to prom (oh, by the way, our homeschool association has a high school prom each year), being in a clique, and being able to make fun of other people for being different. Many of your responses here on the forum suggest that homeschooling parents lack the capability to give their children a good education. If that's true, shouldn't that be the main reason this girl didn't like being homeschooled? But she didn't even mention her education. She mentioned hating homeschool because she missed out on "hating the girl with the purple hair." If that's what's ruined her life, I feel sorry for her, because she obviously has no clue as to what life is really all about.

After I graduate, I plan on majoring in psychology at a mid-sized university not far from my city. I feel God leading me to create a Christian counseling center in my city. I plan on either attending seminary to receive a master's degree in marriage and family counseling or attending our city's university to receive both a master's degree and a Ph.D. in fewer years. My college education is very important to me and I've spent many hours studying different universities and visiting college fairs.

Our homeschool association in our city has over 1000 families. We have speech and debate, two honor societies (one of which I am the Vice-President of), a high school choir, a yearbook (I am on the yearbook staff and contrary to popular notions, we don't draw stick figures on construction paper and staple pages together. We meet for 3 hours a week and use Adobe InDesign CS2. Our yearbook printer also prints the yearbooks for the best public high schools in the city), field day (which is entirely run by one of the honor societies), prom (hosted at one of the biggest country clubs in the area. We even have a swing band provide music), spelling bees which advance to the city and state levels, and several varsity sports teams. Don't even mention socialization to me.

For those of you who say that homeschooled students still miss out on the socialization that comes by sitting in class with 30 other students, eating mystery meat in the cafeteria, and riding the school bus, I say, what kind of socialization is that? After all, we're not supposed to talk in class, are we? How much talking can we do while we eat lunch? And how well will we get to know each other during a noisy 10 minute ride to our houses? One of the girls in my youth group had a knife held to her back during free time at school one day. She was in the 6th grade.

I don't exactly think that's a great way to get to know other kids, do you? Another girl in our youth group had to tell a teacher about her friend, who was buying drugs on school property and offering them to her.

I'm not arguing one position over another. I'm just trying to clean up some of the untrue statements about homeschooling that are filling this forum.

Parents shouldn't have to justify their choice to homeschool or send their children to private schools.

Do you visit the state health department when you are sick?

I am a homeschooler. I am not Christian.  I even know other non-Christian homeschoolers.  <gasp>  Lots of them, actually. <grin>   I have experience with MANY homeschoolers, many of which are NOT the religious right.   I totally agree with your moral majority comment. <smile>

Oh, and there are way more of the religious right in Christian private schools than in the world of home education. 

Just so the folks out there who don't know this, not everyone homeschools because they're conservative Christians.  I am the president of an all-inclusive homeschool group of about seventy families.  Christians are in the minority in our group - and they are the loving, tolerant and open-minded sort of Christians, who don't believe the Bible tells them to spend time with only those just like them in thought.  We have Pagans, Wiccans, Jews, Muslims, Atheists, Agnostics, Buddhists, Unitarian Universalists, Christians, and others that aren't coming to mind now.  Just wanted people to know we do exist. <smile> 

Please let me help to enlighten you - again - a broad generalization of what a 'homeschooling family is' is just as dangerous as a broad generalization about race. I will, however, simply speak of my own interactions with homeschoolers I know personally:

Quote

~~~"Home school" children are not nearly as well socialized tend to get in more trouble later in life ~~~

Not so fast....do you socialize only with people within your age range? Are all your co-workers of the same graduating class year? No. Homeschoolers (again those whom I know) are by and large more equipped to socialize with all ages. They relate to peers with stability in their own identity, to elders with respect, to those younger without feeling 'stupid' for 'lowering themselves' to converse with a child.

I suspect your motivation is good, but your method will leave almost all children behind.

I graduated from a traditional college prep private school, got scholarships to college and still have learned more while teaching school (in a private school) and homeschooling my own children than I ever knew from my traditional school.

All children (public, private, homeschooled, unschooled) will be 'left behind' in some area or another. Most traditional school settings will not complete a text book or two in the year, jump certain chapters, and will certainly not take time for discussion or mastery of the topic. Unschooling and Homeschooling will likely not differ from traditional school and will still produce 'some' shortcomings, but then again, did all of your learning cease with graduation or has it been an ongoing experience?

As more people go the route of "home school", they weaken public school. Soon they vote against any measure that would raise funding for schools because it won't, after all, affect THEIR children.

I have not nor will I ever expect a tax break for educating my children at home. My taxes still go to the public school system in our area and I voted to RAISE assistance for the school system. In fact, I was President of the parent/teacher organization the year before our children left traditional school. Please do not make the generalization that homeschooling families are not committed to their community at large.

Home school is social and religious paranoia at its worst.

Many people choose to homeschool simply because for that child, it is an environment better suited to his/her learning style, nothing religious or social about it.

I really feel for the children who will have to raise their children in what will remain of society. Whatever it is at that point, it will not be a democracy.

Lastly, I would like to submit that statistically, more homeschooled students enroll in the military, or some form of politics, civil protective service (EMTs, Firefighters, Police, Civil Air Patrol, Coast Guard etc) than their public/private schooled counterparts. Since the percentage rate is higher for homeschooled students to enter such felids, I believe our Democratic Society is quite protected, safe and well in tact.