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Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

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Created on : Friday, November 17, 2006, 12:57:50 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Parents want the best for their children, but what’s the best way to educate them? Dr. Phil’s guests face off in a debate about whether to school, homeschool or unschool. Dana and her husband, Joe, call themselves radical unschoolers. They say education happens as a side effect of life, and they don’t believe in tests, curriculums or grades. Are their three kids learning what they need to know? Then, RaeAnn says public schools are death traps and wants to homeschool her children. Her husband, Steve, says their kids are safer at school than they are at home. Can this couple reach a compromise? Plus, Nicole feels like an outcast at 26. She says she hated being homeschooled, and couldn’t relate to other kids. Share your thoughts here.

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November 27, 2006, 10:28 am PST

There absolutely should be rules

Quote From: maxmom3

where the parent said that they have no rules, they have principles.  In our house, we don't have rules but rather guidelines and principles.    My children are well aware that if they break a law (speeding is breaking a law, not a rule) by choosing to speed, there will be a consequence if caught that is tangible in terms of a monetary fine.  They also understand that it is unacceptable to speed because our country believes that by setting speed limits, better safety is the result.  What sort of rules are needed at home?  Eat everything on your plate?  Do as I say not as I do?  In regards to experimenting with drugs, are you suggesting that only children from  home with principles and guidelines instead of rules do this?  That would be a bit of stretch I think!!  I personally feel that when children are raised in an environment where from early on they feel a sense of responsibility to themselves, their health and their emotional well being, that they are less likely to experiment with drugs.  They are also less likely to experience the need for deep rebellion.  It is not also a stretch to suggest that in a home where self -control, self discipline and respect are instilled, a child cannot grasp the rules of a game?  Be it a board game or a sports game?  They adapt!  They want to play soccer, then they learn the concepts of the game and they play.  It's all so less complicated than most people would believe.
It's a shame that so many people think of children as empty brained, ready to pull up at the local school for a fill up.  Children are simply brilliant and sometimes less interference from adults makes the star shine more brightly.  
Home learning children that I know learn to adapt to new situation constantly. They are not with the same children, in the same building most days out of the year. They are constantly going to new places, meeting new people and adapting to the expected tone of wherever they land that day.  Field are great for schooled children and my home learning children go on field trips every single day. 
Again, it's a challenging concept to understand without fully participating in it.  It took my spouse two years before he bought into my choice to home school.  He now believes that we could not be making a better choice at this time.
All that said, public school or any structured education does not have to wrong for home learning to be right.   Home learning  is solid educational choice for children.  The world is changing and home learners are adapting to those changes at a fast pace. 
Michelle
For example, curfews as children get older.   What should and should not be worn in terms of clothing.  I am all for allowing a child to grow and mature, but if it were so easy for children to do it on their own God would not have placed parents on this earth.  He simply would have said "Here you go baby.  Have at it!"  We are here to teach and guide are children.  There are rules all around us.  Contrary to belief a law is a rule just under a different name.  Sure, eat all of the junk food you want and when your teeth rot out of your head we'll throw it out there as a learning experience.  I am planning on homeschooling and have no problems with home schooling, but some things should not ALWAYS be left up to the child.  Children do not have a knowledge base to pull from an education, whether homeschooling or public/private school, sheds lights on subjects that an unschooled child would not have a chance to know whether to like it or not.  I don't think it is ridiculous to think that children are intelligent, but just because one is intelligent does not mean that they have the tools they need to be productive in their own education.
 
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November 27, 2006, 10:30 am PST

Todays thought: Think for yourself.

Quote From: janiesmith

Believe me some of these things are still going on now.  I have seen it.  I suppose this parent could get involved in their childs education - but then that would mean not allowing this to continue and homeschooling.  I fought hard for my children's education in the public school system, during a class size debate, a member of the administration told me right in front of a PTA meeting that if I did not agree with the decisions the school was making, homeschooling was definately an option. (38 kids in a classroom is too many in my opinion).  I kept my kids in the system, but I often look back at all of the work I have done, volunteering, PTA meetings, help with homework, etc.  and wonder if it might have been easier just to teach them myself!

Homeschool should be looked at as another way to educate;  as people go, they will always go to the right, middle or left of an issue.  This is life, and it is still one freedom we still have left here.  I understand the flustrations tax payers have when they  take on the burdens of our social system.   This help should be scrutinized harshly.  Homeshooling barely makes it  in this catagory.  Most people homeschooling do so at their own expense.  So, how does this effect the social system?  I love homeschooling, and yes, I wish some days that I had tons of money to hire the tutor like the privledged, then I could scrutinize the teacher and not myself.  I am only human.  My child will most likely get into college with a scholorship.  What's the likelyhood or =ratio of public school children that will have this opportunity?   What is the taxpayer doing with the public that come out not reading.  Maybe the tables need to be washed in the social schools before they put dirt on the homeschoolers table.  

Give credit where credit is due.   Parents that homeschool are taking an active role in their childrens rearing.  Unconventional, maybe, but I say this is more than the person sending their child away for most of their childhood.  I don't think parents doing this really have a clue what they learn or what they know.  Do they really care or is it really used as a babysitting service.  The parents I know have told me they like the break from their kids.  I don't think this is an attitude we should foster.  Maybe we are not ready to really deal with the issues of why kids need to be publicly schooled.  Could the greedy work force be an issue?  Tables can always be turned,  lets try to turn it in a positive direction of supporting one another, not telling one another how and what to do.  When will some people let others learn to think and do for themselves?   

 
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November 27, 2006, 10:32 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: alasandra2003

So it's perfectly OK for public school parents/teachers/students, who I can only assume were/are currently being educated by the public schools to demand that homeschoolers be regulated when they can't even use proper grammar? So much for their public school education.
Actually, I wrote a similiar post much earlier in the debate to a public school mom rudely correcting the spelling of a homeschool mom.  I just think it takes away from the point of the debate.  Typos happen and words are switched around in the heat of discussion.    Making comments such as 'so much for their public school education' due to their lack of proper grammar and correcting someones spelling is being petty in my opinion. 
 
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November 27, 2006, 10:34 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: flrat69

I take the stance I do because with all the rabid pro-"home schoolers" out there, an opposite voice should be heard that is equally radical.  In point of fact, I have no dispute with anything you say here.  I do have great trepidation for the future of this country if public schools are abandoned by many.  There are, I am sure, examples in which home school is justifiable.  Those cases are rare though and people should be required to make a legitimate case for taking this approach with a child.  IN MY EXPERIENCE, home school is usually the choice of the religious right.  Always remember that the moral majority is neither moral nor the majority.

 

 

(yes, there is some tongue in cheek there)

I grew up in an area where many alternative type schoolers, including "radical unschoolers" were present.  I got to know many of them.  Very few of them were religious people at all.  Many of them are now successful adults.

No need to fear for the public schools becoming obsolete.  I know many families, both in good circumstances and bad circumstances, who not only need these essential services, but use them very willingly.

Homeschoolers do however, provide an answer to the "class size" problem that many complain about.

 
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November 27, 2006, 10:36 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: flrat69

If the public school system is to be what it can be, that can only be accomplished by all of us joining to make it so.  Running to isolation is the behavior of the week and narrow minded.

Running to isolation.  Oh, you make me giggle with that comment.  We have a community which is strong, providing our children with social and academic experiences.  We are FAR from isolated.  My family is out in our community with fellow homeschoolers at least three work days per week.  Most of the day.  With children of all ages.  With families from varying backgrounds.  With varying educational styles.  It's really pretty cool. (and that doesn't count field trips, that's just the regular weekly activities). <grin>  We will be camping this weekend in a youth area of a local campground with other isolated homeschooles. <grin>  Isolation... <shaking head>

 
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November 27, 2006, 10:37 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Just want to address the poor quality of our public education system and say that alot of the problems stem from poor parenting.  I can't tell you how many times I sat with a parent to talk about a behavioral problem in the classroom and was given excuse after excuse as to why they did it.  Or the parent who pulls there child out of the classroom for their extracurricular activities and complains about all of the homework.  It is very easy for people to point out the failures in the education system without taking on some of the responsability themselves.  It is the PUBLIC education system.  That means the PUBLIC should be involved.  Most parents only talk to the teacher if it is conferences or if their is a problem.  If you don't like the curriculum that is being used check into other curriculums and present it.   It is your school and also your responsability.  Don't be so quick to judge those who work there.  Most of them are hardworking, caring people who got into the field of teaching to make an impact on childrens lives and have their hands tied because of beuaracracy.  SO GET INVOLVED, if you don't like it.

 
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November 27, 2006, 10:38 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: alasandra2003

Homeschoolers also arrange for the same tours the public, private, and charter schools get. I should know I arranged the tour for my PEAK homeschool group last year. We went to the Gulf Coast Exploreum and toured the Pompeii Exhibit.

http://www.exploreum.net/

 We were there along with some public & private schools. And I have to say that the lady in charge of educational tours was a pleasure to work with and very supportive of homeschoolers.

 

We also took a Art History course the George Ohr museum offered specifically for homeschoolers.

http://www.georgeohr.org/

 

And have been on educational tours at the Walter Anderson Museum.

http://www.walterandersonmuseum.org/

 

If your museum doesn't offer the same tours to homeschoolers they should be ashamed of themselves.

At least someone should.  Got a mirror?
 
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November 27, 2006, 10:39 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: flrat69

Certainly democracy is NOT about choice.   Democracy is one form of government.  Choice exists in ALL forms of government.  It is a question of who is permitted to make that choice.  Therein lies the democracy.  However, without strong and effective public schools, the will soon be no democracy.  In this country, we are drifting toward an uneducated theocracy.  I suggest you hope that your church is the one making the rules for all of us.  Then you would be content indeed.

What does my church have to do with me pointing out that I believe people should have the right to  take their children out of the public school system if it is not working for them?

 
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November 27, 2006, 10:41 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: alasandra2003

Homeschoolers also arrange for the same tours the public, private, and charter schools get. I should know I arranged the tour for my PEAK homeschool group last year. We went to the Gulf Coast Exploreum and toured the Pompeii Exhibit.

http://www.exploreum.net/

 We were there along with some public & private schools. And I have to say that the lady in charge of educational tours was a pleasure to work with and very supportive of homeschoolers.

 

We also took a Art History course the George Ohr museum offered specifically for homeschoolers.

http://www.georgeohr.org/

 

And have been on educational tours at the Walter Anderson Museum.

http://www.walterandersonmuseum.org/

 

If your museum doesn't offer the same tours to homeschoolers they should be ashamed of themselves.

Hear, hear!!

 

My homeschooled children have had the opportunity to take a five week driving trip from FL to Maine, a six week driving trip from FL to Arizona, and a three-month trip from FL to Alaska.  We did this as a family, and the museums we visited and the sites we saw were well beyond what they could have learned from a textbook!

 
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November 27, 2006, 10:43 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: alasandra2003

Homeschoolers also arrange for the same tours the public, private, and charter schools get. I should know I arranged the tour for my PEAK homeschool group last year. We went to the Gulf Coast Exploreum and toured the Pompeii Exhibit.

http://www.exploreum.net/

 We were there along with some public & private schools. And I have to say that the lady in charge of educational tours was a pleasure to work with and very supportive of homeschoolers.

 

We also took a Art History course the George Ohr museum offered specifically for homeschoolers.

http://www.georgeohr.org/

 

And have been on educational tours at the Walter Anderson Museum.

http://www.walterandersonmuseum.org/

 

If your museum doesn't offer the same tours to homeschoolers they should be ashamed of themselves.

I agree!

Homeschoolers, unschoolers, private schoolers, and public schoolers alike also have entirely the same real world that they also have to live in.  So where they are educated, when off school hours, they still have to face the same things, is in reality a moot point.

I never heard of an "unschoolers credit union" or an "unschooler's mortgage rate", or an "unschooler's job schedule" (oh wait, we don't have schedules LOL).  Unschoolers also have to stop at red lights, wait in line in stores, deal with people from all walks of life.

I find it a very interesting assumption to ponder, the idea that somehow unschoolers can't provide exposure of the "real world" to their children.  We can't escape the real world!  My house is smack dab in the middle of it, and subject to the same expectations as other houses (keep the yard tidy, don't make loud noises in the neighbourhood, etc etc...), and people we associate with are all people in the "real world".  Is there some other world stashed away that we somehow don't know about?
 
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