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Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

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Created on : Friday, November 17, 2006, 12:57:50 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Parents want the best for their children, but what’s the best way to educate them? Dr. Phil’s guests face off in a debate about whether to school, homeschool or unschool. Dana and her husband, Joe, call themselves radical unschoolers. They say education happens as a side effect of life, and they don’t believe in tests, curriculums or grades. Are their three kids learning what they need to know? Then, RaeAnn says public schools are death traps and wants to homeschool her children. Her husband, Steve, says their kids are safer at school than they are at home. Can this couple reach a compromise? Plus, Nicole feels like an outcast at 26. She says she hated being homeschooled, and couldn’t relate to other kids. Share your thoughts here.

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December 3, 2006, 11:37 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: tlc2225

Maybe this John Holt or some home school "experts"  should be invited to discuss this topic with Dr. Phil. Perhaps that would be a more balanced show.
I've never yet seen a talk show host want to take John Holt on.....

I could be wrong, though, if someone wants to point me to the last time Oprah, Dr. Phil, or any popular talk show hosts had John Holt as a guest, and actually allowed him the floor time to speak on his subject....
 
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December 3, 2006, 11:47 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: tlc2225

Maybe this John Holt or some home school "experts"  should be invited to discuss this topic with Dr. Phil. Perhaps that would be a more balanced show.
Oh gosh, I keep getting John Taylor Gatto and John Holt confused!  John Holt died in 1985, so he'd not be a likely candidate for talk shows :)

However, Grace Llewellyn and John Taylor Gatto, Sandra Dodd, Wendy Prieznitz, etc  are still very much alive.

 
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December 3, 2006, 11:52 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: mammato4boys

Awe shucks Julie. You like me, you really like me. ;)

 

Yeah, I've got to admit, we just haven't covered ancient German history.

But if you've got a question about the pilgrims travel to America or the Spanish explorer's "Thanksgiving" in 1598 I could help out as that was the topic of our last unit study. :)

Oh, Sally, you already knew that!!!

 

I also like a fair debate. It's fine to get heated, but to make such a derogatory comment about your intelligence based on your inability to be a walking/talking encyclopedia is absurd. Anyone, on either side of the debate, who needs to resort to such low blows is really just demonstrating that they don't have any better ammunition to back up their point of view. That's just my humble opinion.

 
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December 3, 2006, 12:52 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: teachsmiles

I believe parents who choose to homeschool their children are selfish and lack confidence in their parenting skills.  The parents who decide to unschool are just plain uneducated, as most of us agree.  I too would love to homeschool my youngest child, 8 years old, but it is absolutely for selfish reasons.  I would enjoy spending more time with her and protecting her from life's difficulties. 

 

That being said, I am a teacher with over 10 years experience, half of which was in public school and half in alternative school.  I know that PS does not provide "everything" and even hurts greatly in soooo many ways, BUT if a parent does their job to its fullest then PS works perfectly!  If a parent has nurtured, involved themselves actively, encouraged, and just plain parented, then public school works.  However if a parent is afraid for their child's pain & choices, then they are saying they are afraid of the job they have done as parents.  The parent is choosing to control their children for the purpose of self satisfaction and the fear of the unknown.  Small minded people such as these should not educate!

 

I believe parents who choose to homeschool their children are selfish and lack confidence in their parenting skills.

 

If someone lacks confidence in their parenting skills, wouldn't the natural choice be to let someone else do it? Not keep them home.  If selfishness was the motivation, wouldn't the obvious choice be to send your child off and have time free for yourself? I do not see homeschooling as selfish. I see it as self LESS. I am working many, many jobs, by choice, as a stay at home, homeschooling mother. I cook, clean, make lesson plans, teach my older children and preschool child, and and take care of our two year old. I change diapers, feed meals, potty train, etc. etc. All while teaching. And my children are learning. And they love being at home. We have considered PS. In our area, we have good schools, and as I mentioned before, have many friends in PS. When we took our children's opinions into consideration, they prefer to be home. They have said so.

 

I do agree that public school can work. I've seen it work. Usually in situations where the parents are very involved. But, then, I've also seen situations  when the parents are very involved be total disasters. A good friend of mine, last year, had a horrible experience. Her daughter's teacher, for some reason singled out her daughter, and demeaned her the entire year. When my friend sought help, she was ignored. My friend is very active, president of PTA, also friends with several other teachers and staff.

 

I am not afraid to expose my children to hurt and pain. They are a part of life.  They are protected to a greater degree, yes. But they are children!! It is our responsibility to protect and teach our children. Does that mean my children will be ill equipped to face the world? No, in fact, I think they will be better prepared than most. Their natural curiosity and love for learning will have been encouraged. They will know how to read and study independently. They will have confidence in themselves and the love of their parents.

 
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December 3, 2006, 1:00 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: kschmittz

Yes, of course, the house burning down would be a consequence however being that most kids do not earn the $$ it would take to move and rebuild I don't think the entire scope of the problem is addressed.  To me, I would rather prevent the house burning down- even if it meant maybe not being nice for a little bit.  Again, my children know that there are consequences BEFORE they just happen as a side effect from their curiosity. 

 

Also, I went to the website for Respectful Parenting and yes, there is founder.   She is also a very successful divorce counselor and family therapist.  Also, the ldescription  for her "method" is not at all what I saw described on this board.  Again, we manipulate things for our own convenience. 

Also, I went to the website for Respectful Parenting and yes, there is founder.   She is also a very successful divorce counselor and family therapist.  Also, the ldescription  for her "method" is not at all what I saw described on this board.  Again, we manipulate things for our own convenience. 

 

There is no one founder for respectful parenting.   There are a lot of people who advocate it, but Joanne Baum or Jane Nelson are not 'founders.'  They are authors and people with their own opinions.  There is no one specific method of respectful parenting.

 
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December 3, 2006, 1:07 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: kschmittz

Yes, of course, the house burning down would be a consequence however being that most kids do not earn the $$ it would take to move and rebuild I don't think the entire scope of the problem is addressed.  To me, I would rather prevent the house burning down- even if it meant maybe not being nice for a little bit.  Again, my children know that there are consequences BEFORE they just happen as a side effect from their curiosity. 

 

Also, I went to the website for Respectful Parenting and yes, there is founder.   She is also a very successful divorce counselor and family therapist.  Also, the ldescription  for her "method" is not at all what I saw described on this board.  Again, we manipulate things for our own convenience. 

Yes, of course, the house burning down would be a consequence however being that most kids do not earn the $$ it would take to move and rebuild I don't think the entire scope of the problem is addressed. 

 

Do you really think that would be only about money?  That would be the least of my concerns in a fire.  But this really misses the point that RU doesn't mean kids run wild.

 

Also, I went to the website for Respectful Parenting and yes, there is founder.   She is also a very successful divorce counselor and family therapist.  Also, the ldescription  for her "method" is not at all what I saw described on this board. 

 

I've never had any contact with this website, and have no idea what the method is, maybe I'll check it out.

 

Again, we manipulate things for our own convenience. 

 

yes, you seem to do that

 
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December 3, 2006, 1:10 pm PST

from a smallminded homeschooler

Quote From: teachsmiles

I believe parents who choose to homeschool their children are selfish and lack confidence in their parenting skills.  The parents who decide to unschool are just plain uneducated, as most of us agree.  I too would love to homeschool my youngest child, 8 years old, but it is absolutely for selfish reasons.  I would enjoy spending more time with her and protecting her from life's difficulties. 

 

That being said, I am a teacher with over 10 years experience, half of which was in public school and half in alternative school.  I know that PS does not provide "everything" and even hurts greatly in soooo many ways, BUT if a parent does their job to its fullest then PS works perfectly!  If a parent has nurtured, involved themselves actively, encouraged, and just plain parented, then public school works.  However if a parent is afraid for their child's pain & choices, then they are saying they are afraid of the job they have done as parents.  The parent is choosing to control their children for the purpose of self satisfaction and the fear of the unknown.  Small minded people such as these should not educate!

 

I earn 1/3 of the salary that I could be earning.  I choose homeschooling over the money.  I work, I homeschool, I have a toddler, I have little time to myself.  I am not homescholing for selfish reasons - obviously.

 

I do not try to protect my kids from life's difficulties.  How would one go about doing that?

 
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December 3, 2006, 1:12 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: winterwarmth

Hi teachsmiles,

I have a few questions for you, and I hope to learn more from you based on your responses.

When you are teaching your students, what hopes do you have for how and when, they will embrace and apply their knowledge outside the classroom setting?

What situations are suitable for a student to pass on that knowledge to others?  What situations are not?  Why?

When a student has learned from you, and as a direct result of having learned from you, is able to pass on that knowledge to another student by further "buddying up" and helping another student who may not have understood the material the first time around, how does that make you feel?

I know when I was the only student in my class who loved French, I mean I gobbled it up so much I never had to write a final exam, as the teacher said "Redundant, I already KNOW you know it!", my teacher was excited that the spark she'd prompted in me lit a whole unquenchable fire!
This is what I admire about you Winterwarmth.  You are so calm and nicely responding to a post that was so harsh.  That is not my strongsuit, not even close, so I am impressed that you are able to do so and be so effective at getting your point across. 
 
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December 3, 2006, 1:15 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: sneakers145

The real consequence of the house burning down and losing all posessions and a place to live is a pretty big consequence, don't you think?  I trust my kids are capable of making the leap. 

 

Respectful parenting starts in infancy.  I think back to a book my late MIL gave me where it stated that if your toddler touched a fragile item, you were to slap her hand each and every time until her wil was broken.  I was like WTF??  And this was a religious book!

 

Nah.  Easier to put the really valuable breakables out of reach.  But we left all sorts of fragile things out; mostly things we didn't care if they broke, but it gave the kids something to handle 'gently' and learn how to treat fragile things.  When I found my toddler holding something valuable and fragile, I'd get down on her level and let her explore it and touch it, while explaining it was fragile and prone to breaking.  I showed her how to handle things.  On occasion, stuff got broken.  Reinforced that yes, Mom told me the truth, I do need to be careful.  All the time, as they grew.

 

A real life example was my son, who at the age of 9 months, discovered the CD-ROM drawer.  Yes, I could have said no.  Yes, I could have forbidden him to touch it.  Yes, I could have locked the door to that room.  Yes, I could have barricaded it.  I could have put him in a playpen and forbid him to touch it.  But I trust my kids are intelligent human beings, EVEN AS BABIES.  So I showed him how it worked.  I told him it was fragile.  I showed him how to do it carefully.  He explored it with me right there to supervise.  That CD-ROM drawer is still in my computer and still works.

 

My point is, that if you give the kids to explore freely, and give them facts, and let them do things, they're less likely to try to be sneaky and do it behind your back.

 

 

Your 9 month old understood the concept of "fragile"?  Maybe my daughter is behind, because this is a concept she is barely understanding at age 2.
 
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December 3, 2006, 1:30 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: kschmittz

Well, you are the minority then if you believe that your children are not at all sheltered from negative things.   I am curious, what negative things have they had to deal with that you were not present for?  This is crucial as I believe that children someday will need to face issues (good and bad) independent of Mom and Dad.  Also, most HS/US I know as they do not censor TV- they just don't allow it.  Again, my point has been proven by the admission of many posters claiming when their children came from PS they used foul language, that PS kids have provocatively dressed girls at a youg age and so on.  Even my friend who homeschools claims she doesn't worry about this because she homeschools. So, what exactly do you do in Your World of Unschooling that you think doesn't exist in my child's life?  I'm truly curious. 

Well, you are the minority then if you believe that your children are not at all sheltered from negative things.  

 

I didn't say not at all, just no more than ps children. 

 

I am curious, what negative things have they had to deal with that you were not present for? 

 

I'm curious too, but I respect their privacy

 

Also, most HS/US I know as they do not censor TV- they just don't allow it. 

 

Not allowing would be censoring.  Are you sure you know unschoolers? 

 

So, what exactly do you do in Your World of Unschooling that you think doesn't exist in my child's life?  I'm truly curious. 

 

Since I don't know your child's life other than ps is a part of it... I'm confused that you ask, but I'll answer the best I can. 

 

All I can assume is that I have more time to do what I want.  There is so much to do in the world and spending time in school just isn't something necessary. 

 

At 11, my dd wrote a book and when i was told by a ps teacher relative that most kids that age don't accomplish so much, and presumed to believe that I had done something to make it happen.  But, I think it was just that dd had time.  Probably more kids would write books if they had the time. 

 
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