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Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

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Created on : Friday, November 17, 2006, 12:57:50 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Parents want the best for their children, but what’s the best way to educate them? Dr. Phil’s guests face off in a debate about whether to school, homeschool or unschool. Dana and her husband, Joe, call themselves radical unschoolers. They say education happens as a side effect of life, and they don’t believe in tests, curriculums or grades. Are their three kids learning what they need to know? Then, RaeAnn says public schools are death traps and wants to homeschool her children. Her husband, Steve, says their kids are safer at school than they are at home. Can this couple reach a compromise? Plus, Nicole feels like an outcast at 26. She says she hated being homeschooled, and couldn’t relate to other kids. Share your thoughts here.

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December 27, 2006, 6:01 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: tlc2225

Our school's discipline policy considers "disrespecting" another student a level 1 offense.  Disrespecting any adult in the school is a level 2. The adults are the ones who can handle it  so I can't understand why that is a more serious offense. Seems to me like they are sending these kids the message that they aren't as important as adults and don't deserve the same level of respect.

 

For some reason there is a school stance that adults deserve respect by merely being adults and that makes it more offensive to "disrespect" them.  With this comes the right to "disrespect"  students. 

 
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December 27, 2006, 6:08 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: scooby56

I didn't see today's show but concerning schooling -  homeschooling is great if a parent has the time to really do it right - teaching plus field trips.  But I am against public schools -  I'm very firm on telling everyone IF a person really loves their kids they will put them in a private school and not in public.  And even low income can afford this if they want the best for their kids.  It's up to them.  Will write more after I read the responses others have wrote.

 

I didn't see today's show but concerning schooling -  homeschooling is great if a parent has the time to really do it right - teaching plus field trips.  But I am against public schools - 

 

I am interested in reading your opinions.  There has been very little posting on this board about private school, it's mostly been homeschooling, unschooling, public school. 

 

I'm very firm on telling everyone IF a person really loves their kids they will put them in a private school and not in public. 

I believe people can love their kids and enroll them in government schools. 

 

And even low income can afford this if they want the best for their kids.  It's up to them.

This part stumps me, low income families don't have money for extras like private school.  Are you suggesting scholarships?  Honestly, I have done very little research in this area because I found it too similar to public school to be a viable option but, would love to read how you think this works and is superior.

 

 
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December 27, 2006, 9:54 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: scooby56

I didn't see today's show but concerning schooling -  homeschooling is great if a parent has the time to really do it right - teaching plus field trips.  But I am against public schools -  I'm very firm on telling everyone IF a person really loves their kids they will put them in a private school and not in public.  And even low income can afford this if they want the best for their kids.  It's up to them.  Will write more after I read the responses others have wrote.
So the millions of kids in public schools are unloved by their parents?
 
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December 28, 2006, 4:38 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: scooby56

I didn't see today's show but concerning schooling -  homeschooling is great if a parent has the time to really do it right - teaching plus field trips.  But I am against public schools -  I'm very firm on telling everyone IF a person really loves their kids they will put them in a private school and not in public.  And even low income can afford this if they want the best for their kids.  It's up to them.  Will write more after I read the responses others have wrote.

A few things in your post really don't make much sense and some are simply invalid.

 

Your comment about homeschooling being great if the parent has the time to do it right is  common sense and  could apply to ANY learning situation. We homeschool and if I didn't have the time to do it right then it is a no-brainer that I would find an alternative. If I had the children in public or private school and they were not measuring up then I would find an alternative for those as well.

 

Choosing public school does not have anything to do with a parents level of love for their children. You are reading WAY to much into this. Public School, Private, Homeschool etc. are simply choices a parent makes based on need and ability. Before we homeschooled, we did private schools. I know from experience that private does not automatically mean superior. In fact it was far from it. I personally found that there was less accountability and decreased expertise on the part of the educators.

 

I also disagree with your last statement that even low income can afford private. You obviously have not been exposed to the financial stresses experienced by low income parents. I worked with low income parents and believe me, private school tuition was low on the totem pole. If you can't feed or shelter the children then education is a moot point.

 

You make a lot of assumptions that I will assume are based on things you have heard but have failed to research fully on your own. Feel free to respond now.

 
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December 28, 2006, 9:11 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: scooby56

I didn't see today's show but concerning schooling -  homeschooling is great if a parent has the time to really do it right - teaching plus field trips.  But I am against public schools -  I'm very firm on telling everyone IF a person really loves their kids they will put them in a private school and not in public.  And even low income can afford this if they want the best for their kids.  It's up to them.  Will write more after I read the responses others have wrote.
be careful and do not be judgemental of parents who make choices that you wouldn't and your comment about low income is way off base, have you ever actually worked with the "working poor" and I am not talking about people who has accounts, retirement funds and all that, these are people who work but still can't pay bills, who still can't afford clothes and food, and school supplies and Christmas presents, these are people living pay check to paycheck with nothing to spare to put into an account or anything extra like a drive to McDonalds or to see a movie, I think public schools can benefit IF the parents are involved in their child's education, encouraging the kids, helping them with homework, going to a school function, whatever, this also holds true to the private and homeschoolers, if parents are not interacting and helping their kids along, the kids are going to suffer.

I chose the private schoolt hat I did for my daughter because of it's reputation,the curriculum, the professionalism, the interaction, the programing, the size and the idea that it was within the same denomination as we  helped even though I did look into a ocuple other private schools, the one we chose has way too many positives about it and my daughter loves school and does very well in the classroom structure, she has the personality for this type of setting.

I believe all parents love their kids, some just don't know how to show it, sad, but true. But the type of school a child goes to has nothing to do with whether or not a parent loves her/his kids, Some just don't have the options that others may have but for those who can take advantage of options, i say go for it, do your research and do what is best for your kids and for those who don't feel they have an option, do what you need to do but be connected and communicate with your child, afterall, we, the PARENTS are the main influence on our kids, at least we should be, if we are not then something is wrong and maybe we need to do some reevaluating.
 
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December 28, 2006, 10:49 pm PST

No answer yet

Quote From: mammato4boys

Dr. Phil disagrees. "Theres a lot of research that suggests that what I said is, in fact, a problem after they hit puberty and they get into those middle school years,"

 

What research? Does anyone know what research he is referring to?

Dr Phil and staff, can you clear this up please?

Well, I sent an email to Dr. Phil's staff formally requesting the research to which Dr. Phil is referring. I never received an answer. I cannot find ANY research which even slightly suggests what he has said. If there really is "a lot of research" I would love to read it.

 

Perhaps I am wrong, it wouldn't be the first time. BUT, this reminds me a bit of the common "facts" thrown around about homeschooling which are proven time and time again to be false.

 
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December 29, 2006, 1:54 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: mammato4boys

Well, I sent an email to Dr. Phil's staff formally requesting the research to which Dr. Phil is referring. I never received an answer. I cannot find ANY research which even slightly suggests what he has said. If there really is "a lot of research" I would love to read it.

 

Perhaps I am wrong, it wouldn't be the first time. BUT, this reminds me a bit of the common "facts" thrown around about homeschooling which are proven time and time again to be false.

Welcome to my world...LOL...when you are an atheist who is also an evolutionist who is also for gay marriage you get a lot of  "facts" given to you.

I promise, if I ever come across this research again I will let you know. I did read it once, long ago, here on this website, and I looked, I cannot see it now.
 
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December 29, 2006, 12:09 pm PST

I am laughing myself...

Quote From: tlc2225

 

LOL!! For someone who puts prostitution above receiving welfare you sure are on a high horse.  I grew up on welfare. My mom felt "entitled" to take care of her kids first and foremost  - even if that meant accepting welfare. I'm sure I would have turned out better if she would have been out having sex for money... sheesh - what a joke!

Sadly, someday something will happen in your perfect bubble and you will see everything isn't black and white. Not the welfare system and not the school system.

I have to wonder about your arrogance - I  haven't been that full of myself since I was a teenager..since then I've been humbled - thankfully.

It is obvious that you think you are the perfect model of how EVERYONE should live, earn and EDUCATE. Putting your puffed up pride above your children's best interest doesn't make you a good parent and certainly not a moral compass.

Not sure what side of the fence you are on (HS or what) BUT when I hear the arrogant attitudes of homeschoolers about what they think they are doing for their kids and ultimately the country I think my opinions are mild.  Sorry you think that I live in a "perfect bubble"...do you know me at all?  I have never said I am the model for everyone or implied that.  I just think too many people have children without thinking about the basic necessities they will need to provide them.   I also said (in case you missed it) that things can happen and most of us are very close to homelessness or diability.  However, these are things that cannot be helped- most people on welfare are capable of working and choose not to.  Why couldn't your Mom take care of "her " kids with money she earned ":hersefl"?   I have been humbled in many ways since I was a teenager.  I have also learned not everyone has the same values.  Please tell me how my Pride is affecting my children's best interests...that's not what I see myself doing.  I work hard so they can have a safe neighborhood with good schools and great friends/community.  I could sit back and get welfare and subject them to a lesser area with higher crime and crappy schools....is that better?
 
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December 29, 2006, 12:21 pm PST

Not always....

Quote From: tlc2225

Uh ... yeah......you have it all figured out.

 When your son gets picked on he's a victim ..anyone else.. its provoked.

You are wondering what my son is doing to provoke it  - I'll tell you that tid bit I left out - what you think I'm "not sharing" - he is overweight and has the nerve to eat his lunch or drink water from the fountain. So kids take the food from his lunch and say " you don't need it -you're fat enough."  Or they think they can skip him at the water fountain or try to push him out of the way saying  "you don't need it fatty".

He does firmly stand up to them but some do not back down.

 

As far as the teacher who yelled at him... can't you consider for one minute that there are teachers who use poor judgement? 

 

I'm sorry but you contradict yourself all the time.. I just pointed that out in another post and now with this - You told me he doesn't need to call me-then assume (wrongly) that  I'm not doing all I could or should and that I need to be at the school (which I am often - I have been working with them on this) 

 Which one is it - am i doing too much or not enough?  What does it matter if I told him to call me or the EXACT steps we are taking - the thing is we are very much working with the school and the fact is zero tolerance does make it difficult for kids to learn to deal with conflict in their own way.

 

 

 

 

You assume if there is a problem it MUST be the parents or the kid.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, you had a lot to say.  I never once said or implied that your son was provoking the "attacks"- I just simply stated out of curiosity why this goes on continually .  My son has the opposite problem- he is very small for his age and receives comments/judement on that.  He also has red hair, wears glasses and is very smart- talk about a "geek " combo!  However,  he has not always been the victim- he has a mean streak to and can be nasty when he wants to be and succumbs to peer pressure just like any other normal kid.  When he does this and gets it back then I remind him how it felt.  Generally speaking, he is pretty sensitive and will stick up for and seek out kids who seem to be on the opposite ends of the spectrum.  I also never implied that you were to blame by doing too much or not enough.  I apologize if you think that I "have it all figured out"- I don't.  I just have dealt with my own experiences and thought I'd share them with someone who was having a similar issue.  Yes, some teachers do use poor judgement but not as many as this board would lead us to believe.  Take care.!

 
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December 29, 2006, 12:30 pm PST

The best?

Quote From: momofbrw

A private school has a reason to pick the best curriculum possible.  The reason is to stay in business.  A government school doesn't have to worry so much about keeping it's doors open.  And do you even know how curriculum is selected?  One would assume that because it is teachers who teach that they would know which curriculum is best, which one works which one is nothing more than just *fluff*.  Would you be bothered if you knew that in most systems, it is NOT the teachers who choose the curriculum?  Would it bother you to know that a government school might select it's curriculum based on the fact that a friend of one of the board members suggested that it's the best curriculum and that friend just happened to be the one who owns the company who published said curriculum?  Would that bother you or would you still assume that the school has picked what's best?  Why in the world would you think that because it's selected by "county, city or government" that it is the best?  Is it because those folks calling themselves board members know so much about curriculum?  That is hardly the case in most school systems in my state.  And what recourse do you have if something "happens" because of the curriculum choosen in the public school??? 

Don't remember posting that.  I just simply stated we have "very good" schools in my area so I have no issue or need to choose private or homeschool.  Having almost all teacher friends in different capacities I know that curriculum is not picked by them.  The corruption you speak of is common however, there are still some standards that need to be met.  Also, in private school there is not as much diversity as I would like.  The recourse I have is resources and help.  My son is ADHD and due to the support I have received through his public school he is doing very well.  Again, his school is very small and therefore there is time and energy to spare if I show just a little effort and involvement on my part then I usually receive the same back in way of help and envouragement.  I'm just sorry to hear so many lament about our school systems and many don't seem to be doing much to help.  Just a thought....
 
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