Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

Since you most likely do not celebrate this Holiday maybe you don't understand that my time is better spent elsewhere than on the computer.

Do you spend your time more wisely during your holiday?  I thought you were a christian, why do you celebrate a pagan holiday anyway? 

There are many things my hubby and I can't afford even with two incomes.  We'd like a bigger house, with a yard.  We'd like a newer car that needs less repair.  We'd like to have more in savings and more put away for retirement.   However, we realize what we have and are grateful so we continue working towards a better life for our family.  WORKING is the key. 

II'll give you a tip... investing is the key, not working.  As someone else suggested, you may want to take a personal finance/ tax planning course or at least read some books to educate yourself on the topic. 

"but the kids who are on welfare didn't choose it and they do deserve to eat and have shelter "

I agree witih this 100%...and shouldn't the people who bring them into the world do this? 

The problem is that not all parents do provide the very basics for their children.  Do you think the rest of society should not try to provide for them at all?  Is this an attitude of survival of the fittest or something? 

Most homeschoolers (My good friend included) do not earn a check therefore no money is going into the system. 

Where do you get these statistics?  You may know this about your good friend but, most homeschoolers? 

 Yes her husband works but being that she stays home and has 3 kids his income is not taxed as heavily as my husbands with me working. This is common knowledge. 

How is your and your friends income tax common knowledge?

 Also, do you work and earn a check?   

Checks have no value,  do you mean income?  Of course I have income, but that has little to nothing to do with school taxes.

It's great the library and other services are available to your family although the percentage paid in is probably less that most "wealthy". 

Are you implying that you know my income or property tax situation?  Where did you get that? 

 I suspect most homeschool Moms do own homes due to the fact their husbands make enough to pay for that.  How many of those Moms actually have a job that earns a check? 

Does that make a difference?  If someone owns a home and pays property taxes, they are paying into the system.  Where the money comes from is irrelavant.

 We all work, I agree.  Not all of us earn a check.  My husband and I are I guess what they call the "working poor"- two incomes and just barely getting by. 

You previously claimed to have 200k in equity, that is hardly working poor. 

No, we do not have college degrees but compared to those who do we are all in the same boat. 

??

It's nice to know the ONE public system I pay for I can actually use. 

Do you not use public roads, parks, libraries, police, fire dept. etc.?  I think it would be  difficult to live in the States and not use public systems.  And why would you avoid others?

I believe we ALL benefit from an educated society. 

I pay governement taxes and state taxes (from my paycheck, earned while away from my kids) so I think I should be entitled to utilize those if I were so inclined. 

I also pay federal, state and local income tax, as well as property tax, and sales tax.  Why do you suggest homeschool parents don't do this?  It would be pretty much impossible to not pay taxes in the States.  Is your issue with the amount of taxes or the orgin of the income? 

I don't think that if a woman stays home (for whatever reason) she deserves some extra incentive to do so. 

What incentive are you talking about? 

Let me put it in a way so you can understand.  I am smart enough to see what you do and it really doesn't help your case much.  It just shows a huge level of immaturity.

TAXES- It is common knowledge for anyone who has paid income tax ever in their life that a single income family is taxed less severely than a dual income family.  If you earn income (as you claim) from work you do (ie- part time or Interent job) then taxes are taken from your earnings.  These taxes go to things like schools, roads, etc.  Property tax doesn't necessarily go to these type of things.  So, yes, you own a home but chances are the one income coming into your household is taxed far less heavily than a dual income house therfore less $$ your house pays into the system even if property taxes for your home and mine were equal. My issue is simply this- everyone should pay an equal share into taxes- a flat rate so to speak.  No one income should pay a bigger percentage than another.  This is not currently the case.  The "rich" pay a much higher percentage than I do and so on down the line.  ( This is not the popular opinion I know but again it's mine to have. ) So, yes, it is the amount paid into the system and how much you take out. and for what reasons.   You talk about having income and paying taxes - is that strictly from your husband's earnings or yours as well?  You eloquently avoid that making it sound very arrogant that what you do is invaluable to the world.  At this point, if I wanted to receive welfare assistance I could not.  I do not avoid public services I am just not entitled to use many of them.  This was in reference to your comment that I am abusing the system by using public schools.  As for sales tax, I'd be willing to bet that a dual income house has far more sales tax than a single income- maybe not. 

INCENTIVES- I have heard it suggested that women who stay home should somehow receive some form  of incentive from the government to do tso.  Either in way of acutal income (a salary ) or an equal type write off on their tax returns making  it more feasible (in theory) to stay home. This is in response to dual income families getting the deduction for child care exspenses that typically one income families do not have therfore do not receive at tax time.  How do you feel about this?  I'm truly curious.

Your posts are very interesting, however, I do not think you really understand what I am trying to say.  Maybe I'm not saying it the best way either. 

Well since you asked, no, my time is just more in demand with the Holidays.  I am a Christian and yes I celebrate Christmas.  We believe the birth of Christ is something to be happy about.  We believe the exchange of gifts teaches a valuable lesson- better to give than to receive.  Spending time with my parents is precious to me.  All in all, I will pray for those like yourself who are too wrapped up in the negative to see any good. 

As for my finances, you have no idea where I live, what I earn or how I spend so to pass judgment is really way off.  I was referring to people who take from the system and do not pay in.  Period.  If you dont'  understand this basic knowledge I again will pray for you.  FYI- to invest takes money...where does money come from initially?  For most, it's working.  Investing is much like gambling and  I don't think that's really a wise way to "spend" my money.  I prefer to save and be frugal.  My hubby and I are very proud of our "debt free" life (house excluded) and the steps we've taken to get there.  Most young couples with two kids cannot claim almost zero debt and an affordable house payment anywhere near our area. 

The attitude of providing for those who choose not to work is not one I share.  I do many things for my community and will help anyone trying to help themselves.    It's similar to the "making fishers of men" attitude.  For a parent to stay home, talk down to working families while they collect from the system the working pay into...yes, that's a problem.  It is rampant in my state and quite honestly I don't think I like paying for someone else's children while they look down on me.  It's not how I was raised and I won't raise my kids that way. 

I graduated last year from public school.  I had excellent grades and am now doing well in college where I am studying to be a nurse. I think that people are making excuses by blaming public school when students don't do well.  With any type of school, you get what you take out of it.  Most kids today are lazy.  Why don't we call it what it is!  I do not think it is the school's fault.  I was raised by a single, disabled mother, and I was able to take advanced classes while working and doing internships.  So when I hear public schools being blamed for students not passing even the most basic classes, I think maybe we should look at how much effort the student is putting in.  I went to school, payed attention, studied, and passed the classes.  There were also students who cut school, did not pay attention, did not study, and (surprise surprise) did not pass.  It seems very simple to me, each person is responsible for their own success.  We just don't like to take responsibility for our own actions (laziness), so we blame the school (laziness).  Life is not like private school or home school.  You get what you are given in life and you choose to either work hard for success, or be lazy and blame something else for your failure.

As for the people who are choosing not to educate their children at all, I hope they feel good about crippling them for life.  Regardless of their opinion about education, it is necessary in our society.  The best job you can get without some kind of higher education is at McDonald's.  They are sentencing their children to a life of almost certain poverty.  They should be ashamed of themselves.

Crime and bullying do NOT come from the public school system. We don't teach that as a special elective class! LOL! Crime and bullying come from people - and from kids. It's not inherent to the institution of public schools. Just because public schools have to deal with the problems of undisciplined children doesn't mean they are the CAUSE of those problems.

While I do not argue that private schooling or even homeschooling may be the best choice for some families, I am a bit concerned over the idea that just any parent is qualified to educate his/her children. It is a VERY serious commitment that requires time, dedication, and ability. I cannot tell you how many children are returned to public schools after parents get bored with homeschooling, and the children are woefully behind not only in academics but in social skills.

I know there are many homeschooling success stories, but I think it is misleading to say that any parent will be able to be successful in this area. Some simply do not have the ability, the education, the time, or a full understanding of what is required. I disagree that EVERY parent knows what is best for his/her child. If that were true, we wouldn't have the problems we have today. I know a lot of great parents, but I also have met many who absolutely SHOULD NOT homeschool.

Let me put it in a way so you can understand.  I am smart enough to see what you do and it really doesn't help your case much.  It just shows a huge level of immaturity.

What is it I do? 

TAXES- It is common knowledge for anyone who has paid income tax ever in their life that a single income family is taxed less severely than a dual income family.  If you earn income (as you claim) from work you do (ie- part time or Interent job) then taxes are taken from your earnings. 

Why do you doubt I have income?  And where does the idea it's part time or internet work come from? 

The truth is that I am uncomfortable discussing my income or net worth, but it seems clear from your comments that my financial situation is not what you think it is.  But then I think it's difficult to really know anyone's personal financials without an audit.

These taxes go to things like schools, roads, etc.  Property tax doesn't necessarily go to these type of things. 

In the 4 states I have lived in, property taxes are the main source of funds the local schools.  One of these states has no state income tax, so they definitely don't get it from that. 

So, yes, you own a home but chances are the one income coming into your household is taxed far less heavily than a dual income house therfore less $$ your house pays into the system even if property taxes for your home and mine were equal. 

Who says my household is one income?  It's not.   So, you can't possibly know how much I or my household pays in taxes.  It's based on amount of income, not the number of sources. 

Example...a husband  with income of 50k  and wife with income of 50k will pay same taxes as a household where husband has 0 income and wife has 100k. 

Of course this is considering all deductions being equal etc.  Just a simple example.  It just isn't at all based on dual vs single income. 

My issue is simply this- everyone should pay an equal share into taxes- a flat rate so to speak.  No one income should pay a bigger percentage than another.  This is not currently the case.  The "rich" pay a much higher percentage than I do and so on down the line.  ( This is not the popular opinion I know but again it's mine to have. )

I am also in favor of a flat tax rate.

So, yes, it is the amount paid into the system and how much you take out. and for what reasons.   You talk about having income and paying taxes - is that strictly from your husband's earnings or yours as well? 

You must have missed this.  I have income, and I pay taxes.  Why is this so difficult to believe? 

And not that I have done any studies on this, but from my chats with many homeschooling parents, I'm fairly certain most of the moms have some income.  Not that I think it is important or necessary to have a paying job to be a good parent.  It just seems to be the norm.  That's why I would like to know why you imply otherwise. 

You eloquently avoid that making it sound very arrogant that what you do is invaluable to the world. 

How did I do this?  I honestly don't recall mentioning anything that would make you write this. 

At this point, if I wanted to receive welfare assistance I could not. 

Me either

I do not avoid public services I am just not entitled to use many of them.  This was in reference to your comment that I am abusing the system by using public schools. 

You're confusing me with another poster... again

As for sales tax, I'd be willing to bet that a dual income house has far more sales tax than a single income- maybe not. 

Sales tax is based on purchasing things so it is more likely related to level of income (rather than number of income sources)

INCENTIVES- I have heard it suggested that women who stay home should somehow receive some form  of incentive from the government to do tso.  Either in way of acutal income (a salary ) or an equal type write off on their tax returns making  it more feasible (in theory) to stay home. This is in response to dual income families getting the deduction for child care exspenses that typically one income families do not have therfore do not receive at tax time.  How do you feel about this?  I'm truly curious.

My opinion is that child care expenses should not be deductions.  This sort of goes along with the flat tax rate issue to me.

Your posts are very interesting, however, I do not think you really understand what I am trying to say.  Maybe I'm not saying it the best

I could be missing the point.  Sometimes I take things too literally. 

Are you saying that homeschooling is only a viable option for families that can or do live on one income?  And you have an issue with that?

Well, I sent an email to Dr. Phil's staff formally requesting the research to which Dr. Phil is referring. I never received an answer. I cannot find ANY research which even slightly suggests what he has said. If there really is "a lot of research" I would love to read it.

Perhaps I am wrong, it wouldn't be the first time. BUT, this reminds me a bit of the common "facts" thrown around about homeschooling which are proven time and time again to be false.

But not everyone does.  I, too, am the product of the public school system.  I also graduated from college with a 4.0 GPA in Business Management.  But I graduated from high school in the lower half of my class.  Why?  One reason:  I spent most of my time and energy there avoiding harrassment and bullies.  I went to school sick to my stomach most days.  I could not concentrate and focus on the things that I should have.  Instead, I had to avoid certain hallways where the "jocks" hung out and rated every girl that walked by.  I avoided going to my locker, or the bathrooms at other times, because of who I knew would be there.  I spent so much time just trying to be invisible, or being afraid,  that there was no time, nor energy, to spend in active learning. 

When I got to college, I felt like I had died and gone to heaven!  I LOVE to learn.  And I didn't get harrassed by anyone there.  And I excelled.  My college years were some of the best in my life.  I have many good friends even now, who were made in college.  That was over half my life ago!  It made me wonder if I wouldn't have excelled in high school, had the environment been friendlier to those of us who didn't fit into any cliques or groups. 

It would break my heart to have no choice but to subject my two little ones to that kind of harrassment, 5 days a week, day in and day out, for 12 straight years.  It changes you, and not for the better.  Thank God for other options now!  I'm a homeschooler and we love it.

Let me put it in a way so you can understand.  I am smart enough to see what you do and it really doesn't help your case much.  It just shows a huge level of immaturity.

TAXES- It is common knowledge for anyone who has paid income tax ever in their life that a single income family is taxed less severely than a dual income family.  If you earn income (as you claim) from work you do (ie- part time or Interent job) then taxes are taken from your earnings.  These taxes go to things like schools, roads, etc.  Property tax doesn't necessarily go to these type of things.  So, yes, you own a home but chances are the one income coming into your household is taxed far less heavily than a dual income house therfore less $$ your house pays into the system even if property taxes for your home and mine were equal. My issue is simply this- everyone should pay an equal share into taxes- a flat rate so to speak.  No one income should pay a bigger percentage than another.  This is not currently the case.  The "rich" pay a much higher percentage than I do and so on down the line.  ( This is not the popular opinion I know but again it's mine to have. ) So, yes, it is the amount paid into the system and how much you take out. and for what reasons.   You talk about having income and paying taxes - is that strictly from your husband's earnings or yours as well?  You eloquently avoid that making it sound very arrogant that what you do is invaluable to the world.  At this point, if I wanted to receive welfare assistance I could not.  I do not avoid public services I am just not entitled to use many of them.  This was in reference to your comment that I am abusing the system by using public schools.  As for sales tax, I'd be willing to bet that a dual income house has far more sales tax than a single income- maybe not. 

INCENTIVES- I have heard it suggested that women who stay home should somehow receive some form  of incentive from the government to do tso.  Either in way of acutal income (a salary ) or an equal type write off on their tax returns making  it more feasible (in theory) to stay home. This is in response to dual income families getting the deduction for child care exspenses that typically one income families do not have therfore do not receive at tax time.  How do you feel about this?  I'm truly curious.

Your posts are very interesting, however, I do not think you really understand what I am trying to say.  Maybe I'm not saying it the best way either.