Topic : Is This Normal Social Discussion

lol

That reminds me of a story way back in the beginning when the war first started, I was waiting on a family with a young child....3 maybe and a newborn. While his wife was looking without him I was stiting on a sofa while he was holding the baby and talking to him. He had told me that he was military and he was buying his wife a new living room because he was going back to Iraq but she didn't know it yet. He voluntered this time and she wasn't  gonna be happy about it. I asked why with such young children and he told me his field is a specialty field  and they needed someon with his no how in the worst way and he was a soldier and he "needed" to go.

Ya'l wouldn't believe the things these men mostly tell me! I waited on that that was a nurse? I'm not sure if I told you all about her. She sets up hospitals so she sees all the worst things you can see because of her position. She's angry because her son has gone 3 times. Apparently he's a specialist as well. Well I saw her yesterday and hugged her and said I was sorry I didn't seem to care about her, I was just so worried about my child and that I did care. It seems there's this place, that I now can not remember, that if you get a letter posted from there that person is not where they tell you they are. We have wars all over this continent that no one knows about that are very very dangerous. She had asked her son why the letter was posted from there and he said "Mom sometimes it's a routing thing and that's the last place before it comes to the states" Well she asked some of the patients and they tell "her" everything and they told her what I'd just posted. So now she has no idea where he is. 

I'm telling you the more I learn the more proud and in awe I am of our military. All militarys. Have ya'll heard about what's happening in Darfur? We have lots of military from all over the world trying to help those people, but they are so limited more than 1/2 have withdrawn troops but we are out numbered, out gunned and it's seems a hopeless, helpless situation. The guy being interviewed when asked about his feelings said "The only thing we can do is try to make things better." His expression was of complete helplessness. Of course he thinks his platoon and himself will probably be overtaken and become POW's.  *shaking head* And they keep on keeping on...

When Ralph's son is deployed, which he has been five times now, for short stints, he cannot tell a soul - not even his wife - where he is or what he does.  Clearly, he's involved somehow in the intelligence process.  All very hush, hush.

I'd like to say that I'm thrilled that Ingrid Betancourt and the other hostages in South America were rescued.  I saw her interviewed on Larry King and she is the epitome of a strong and brave woman.  I'm quite certain that I could npt have survived what she went through.

Ah and there in lies one of my many beefs with the media. Secrecy. Something that is tantamount to life and death for our soldiers and something our media and some people feel our government should not be entitled to have. 

I have a very good friend whose husband commands a helicopter corp in Afghanistan, he has been there since before it was officially a war. He tells me that the military cannot even notify relatives of death before they may see it on the news. My friend actually saw her husband one night with the media blathering all over about where a particular helicopter crashed. Yet she herself didn't even know where he was. Pretty damn disgusting to be honest.

What most people do not realize is there is no way in fact that the average lay person (and many levels of the military for that matter) have any real idea what is exactly involved. Or even the reasons why. While our media would like to take random statements and make them the issue, nothing regarding this war has ever been as simple as we have been told by our journalists. (I use the term with much disdain.) 

The war in Iraq has never been about a 'connection to 9/11'. Yet more often then not people will cite that as a reason. People will also say things like there were no 'wmds' which is utter nonsense. We know there were, we know there still are, and as they are located they are being disposed of, but do we hear about it? Nah. Telling the world that we were and are on the right track is not what they want to hear. Why? Mostly because it shows loud and clear the media is full of shite.

Last week an article told about how 550 metric tons of yellow cake was just sold by the Iraqi government to Canada (for them to use in nuclear power....something our country is too chicken to do...a box I shall climb on someday). Got a clue when this story ran? Oh those peak hours of people are reading the news don't you know *giant sarcasm*....midnight to 3:00 am. Well hellloooo I'm sure that is when most of my friends are reading the news....NOT.  Then poof it was gone from MSNBC.  Yet if you ask the lay person in this country they will tell you there was no yellow cake cause Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame said there wasn't.  Such hog wash. But no Saddam wasn't doing a thing to provoke anyway at all. That's why he said NO to UN inspectors returning right?? heh.

That bastard went the way all bastards such as him are going to go plain and simple. President Bush vowed the day after 9/11 that we would no longer tolerate terrorists in this world and no matter what it took we would hunt them, we would consider countries who harbored them the enemy, and we would dedicate ourselves to a long term commitment to this. From that day forward there should have been no mistaking on anyones part that this was not a Kuwait drive by. After over 400 terrorists attacks world wide in two decades, 80+ of which have been on our soldiers and embassies, we are finished 'talking' to people who don't care or have any comprehension of the word diplomacy.

Our media would have us think that we should just tell the likes of Ahmajenidad (animal who denies the holocaust happened, kidnapper of our hostages in the 70s, animal who proclaims he will blast the Isreali's into the sea) to sit down in the corner and be a good boy. *rolls eyes cough, cough* "That's right you murdering terrorist, git your butt in that happy chair now!"

Does anyone here realize a fantastic thing happened in the last two weeks? North Korea (psycho Kim Il-sung who shot missles over Japan) dismantled it's nuclear reactor. Did you guys know that? Just curious if you knew. This is a huge step forward to reducing nuclear power from the hands of mad men. We are now providing food relief for North Korea. One of the hottest hot spots of the world, that was threatening utter chaos in Asia has decided to join the 21st century. So how much media coverage did President Bush and our governement get praising such a great achievement?  Not as much as Christy Brinkley's divorce. How sad is that?

Yet is was all the news when Il-sung said he would never dismantle their nuclear reactors and would make nuclear weapons if they wanted to and fly them over Japan anytime they pleased and beat his chest long and loud...blah blah blah. Now that story we heard for months. Imagine that. *wonders if rolling eyes so much can cause them to get stuck rolling forever*

I'm not trying to be ugly here or even trying to change anyone's mind. Simply put, Loretta is absolutely right, 9/11 and Iraq have no direct connection at all.  So why do some people seem to think it did or that they were led to believe it did?

Because the events are entertwined but also so convoluted that the media isn't going to convey (nor can they) the whole picture in two minute sound bites. But worse the average public doesn't want to know the details and the exact points and reasoning. They will instead fine tune the quickie road rage opinion the media works to create.  

We went into Iraq because Saddam was a terrorist without question. How smart would it have been to not ask him to allow inspectors in to verify the amount and facilities that held these things? With our soldiers on the ground in the region? It would have been stupid not to demand to inspect. Better question...How smart was it for him to refuse? Not.

The UN knows without question that a calvalcade of heavy trucks moved massive amounts of something from Iraq into Syria just before we invaded Iraq. Sattelites prove this without question. The math isn't hard on this. The math gets even easier when you talk to our soldiers who were there in the first year, picking up rifles with "France" stamped all over them. **Oh light bulb flash!!! ** No wonder Koffi Anon, head of the UN (who is French thank you ....and whose son was in charge of the Food for Oil UN program....and who was later busted for stealing massive amounts of UN money) wouldn't support the US's decision to invade. Nor would Russia....omg the second most common "made in..." tag on weapons in Iraq. Hellllooooooooo. Of course with a cash cow like Iraq feeding the weapons industry in Russia...who had a failing economy and no use for it's weapons....and France...who has always played both sides of the fence in every single conflict in history....well sheese folks connecting the dots is cake. Damn if you could just get all the dots in one place it would be that is....but you know it's a scavenger hunt for the real dots and not the dramafest dots that sell more papers. Like I said it takes damn near a full time job to weed out the crap news from the real news. And then you have to have enough history and understanding to even know what you are reading.  I do NOT mean that in an ugly manner, it is simply the truth.

Saddam was going down from as far back as Clinton, maybe even Reagan. The mess in the middle East should have been dealt with during the reign of the Shah of Iran, but most of us know what a fiasco President Carter was and today we reap the 'benefits' of that mess. This has been decades coming, blaming Bush is naive. I am not saying he is perfect or without fault, but blaming him and somehow making this war be about 'him' is wrong both factually and morally in my opinion.

This is perhaps my favorite subject to debate. I don't mean to sound like a know-it-all, but I come from five generations of military that have been in every single war this country has ever been in, I have a degree in Economics with a minor in Poli Sci....this is my heart throb folks.  If I had been a boy I would have been at West Point. lol

Oh yeah and you can't believe how much I have to say about oil and it's part in all this. ;) But you know what....most people can only say "Haliburton".....which means they don't have a clue in reality.

 And I'll mention the chair of my poli sci department in college was an Iraqi, so believe me I know a lot about Iraq and it's world relations and the mind set of the religious factions there.  There is so much to learn and it cannot be learned from the media alone. Yet the majority of people are left with only that sadly.

I'm a hard ass, I will admit it. I could never be a pacifist, and as Loretta put it, when my children came along I had no question I could slaughter anyone who threatened them. 

Here's what I know....I know that it is not just those 19 men who flew planes into our towers that day, nor is it just Osama Bin Laden we need to pursuing. I know that millions of radical Muslims danced in the streets in a multitude of nations all over this world rejoicing the attack. That mentality has to change, that is what is going to change. And it can be the easy way or it can be the hard way. But it is going to change just as surely as a tadpole drops his tail to become a frog. Evolution my friends that is what is happening and it isn't going to stop because some politician says he/she can stop it.

Those holding oil want to play in the world economy and reap the benefits of having international trade partners, then they have to play by the buyers rules plain and simple. It's a basic economic lesson in reality.  After all no one buys sand do they?

It is absurd the think that oil producing nations can sell us oil and then use those funds to destroy us. Not gonna happen....as we are seeing.

~Ami

xoxox

Ps I am going to try to post a post from a political board from the first year of our invasion into Iraq. There were thousands of debates on line and I tried to save the most thoughted of posts that had good information and food for thought. (And could be backed up with facts.) This one is one of the best, and though it has taken longer than this fellow predicted (thanks to Iranian and Syrian terrorists crossing Iraq's border) it is still the direction we are heading.

I love you guys, nor do I care that our opinions do not always match, I respect them all and love reading them, never mistake that. =)

Oh and Neecie, your thoughts on Ingrid Betancourt....I agree with you, I wonder if I could hold out. I watch Schindler's List at least once a year just to remind me that people can do amazing things to survive. I have often wondered if I could have survived the Polish ghettos or the concentration camps. I hope we never have to know.    note to self: Add Ralph's son to the prayer list.

This a great post in my opinion where a soldier in our military addresses a civilian (Conde62) regarding our invasion of Iraq.  The format it goofy in my doc so it may not paste well, if not I apologize in advance. Anyway just something I think says much we never realize.  

Cond62 wrote:  
IF the Al quaida masterminds behind 911 are in Pakistan why did we invade Iraq which had nothing to do with it. Iraq didnt even have a radical fundimentalist Islamic governmnet but a secular one which included women. christians, Kurds and Shiites. Iraq had no income taxes. Free Health care and free education through college.We can only conclude that Bush is either a Moron or A Bloody thirsty War and oil Profits maggot.

Don't paint Iraq under Saddam as a glorious paradise, it was far from it.  I interviewed dozens upon dozens of Iraqi prisoners during Op Desert Storm and have many Iraqi friends who I have known for years. 

Saddam was hated by the vast majority of Iraqi's.  Only those who were part of the ruling establishment or otherwise greatly benefitted from the Baathists wanted it to continue.  I am telling you the absolute truth, that is the way it was. 

No people want to live under a dictatorship nor do they want to live under the terror conditions the people of Iraq contend with today.

The conditions of the Mid East on one hand presented the US with a great challenge and threats as well as a developing opportunity.  Nations there who have been friendly to the US have been under two pronged threats for the past twenty plus years, on one hand by the Jihadists and terrorists and threat by Iran, Syria and Iraq on the other.

Take just a moment and imagine Saddam's army once again on the move, this time not stopping at Kuwait but also seizing the oil fields of Saudi, Qatar and the UAE.  One would find 80% of the world's oil trade under the control of Saddam.  That was one threat.

The other was Jihadists taking over those same nations, the outcome would be Usamah in charge of the oil, rather than Saddam.

The opportunity was the possibility of bringing about peace in that region.  Israel under Sharon was ready to trade land for peace but only if its northern borders could be secure.  Jordan, Saudi and Egypt were no longer threats, it was Iraq and Syria presenting the greatest threat, through their surrogates in Lebanon.

The deal was cut...not hard handshakes, just a series of maybe this then maybe that, if Iraq were gone, if Syria was out of Lebanon, then maybe land for peace.  And more followed.  Saudi wanted an end to the Israel Palestine problem as well.  They simply cannot afford to let the war and unrest there simmer any longer.  It fed the JIhadists, gave them cause to continue the growth of the terrorists that threaten those nations.

Saddam had to go, peacefully or by force he had to go.  And he did, and Syria has withdrawn from Lebanon and Israel is withdrawing from Gaza and terror ops in Israel have essentially ended and the Saudi's are making money guarantees to the Palestinians and the other Arab nations are joining in that effort.

The Jihadists have had their foundations cut from beneath them.  Al Qaeda is scattered to the wind exept for Iraq where they are fighting their last ditch stand.

For the first time in sixty years we actually stand at a point where we may see peace in that region.  Maybe, maybe.  But if we don't try, we will never know.

Now we know just how long a post this site allows!

Thanks Ami, I definitely appreciated all of the information -- food for thought indeed!

Oh you can post a post as long as you want, all you have to do is hit copy to be sure it isn't lost if DP times out. If you time out, you simply log back in paste your copy and hit post. Not a big deal.

Now if long posts bore you, you can just skip it, voila` !

 ~Ami ;)

I guess I should apologize for the posts being so long. But you know the interesting part, they don't begin to touch the actuality of what this war is about, the whys and wherefores, the history and science in it all. So perhaps the main point I made inadvertantly...there is nothing simple or clear cut and dry regarding this war and it is so very wrong that people think it is. jmo as always.

Hugs,

~Ami

xoxox

A note about the Colombian hostage ordeal. 

Marc Gonsalves, one of the Defense contractors, is originally from my area.  I don't know if this case was common knowledge throughout the rest of the country but since they were taken hostage back in 2003 my newspaper has run numerous features on his mother's efforts to find out any info on her son.  She traveled to Colombia, Washington DC several times to try and bring attention to the situation.  When a video was released last fall showing her son and the others alive our newspaper printed a story again and she spoke of how happy she was to see him.   She begged for our government, the Colombian government, and anyone else she could to try and help save her son.  She didn't give up on her son or the hope that she would see him alive again.

I would read these stories and I always felt such admiration for her determination to make sure that we didn't forget about her son.  I would also felt so very sorry for this woman because I just could not believe that after so many years she would ever see her son again.

I must say that I am truly so very pleased to have been so very wrong.

You know Ami, that is so true, there is nothing simple or clear cut about any war really.  I know that I do not know all there is to know and I don't think any of us will ever but I am always interested in learning more.  And usually I end up learning the most from a view point that opposes mine.

Oh and regards to the media and secrecy, sometimes I just wonder if they could really be so flipping stupid.  The whole Prince Harry thing so pissed me off.  Here is a guy trying to do his damn job and the media just blows it and puts a whole bunch of lives at risk.  Everything needs to have a tabloid flavor to it these days and it just drives me nuts.  It wasn't always like this, there was a time when journalists had integrity.  Now they are the exception.  What fools.

Hugs

I will be honest, I did not even know about this story until their release. Where has it been? Raj told me he knew about it but only from several years ago. He said he had not thought of it since then.  I won't do the media rant, though you know I am itching too....lol

I am very glad they are home.

Hugs,

~Ami